Choosing the right device

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ON SECURITY By Susan Bradley Are you being bombarded from every corner by Black Friday and end-of-year deals — toys to technology? Of course you are.
[See the full post at: Choosing the right device]

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Elly, Trainpacer, rc primak, karma244, Rand Alonin, fisher75, schmootoo, DLivesInTexas, windbg, genej101, Norio, lmacri, Alex5723

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..many PCs these days cannot be upgraded once purchased, so you must buy what you need for the entire life of the computer. The same goes for storage..

Storage isn’t a problem as users can connect external SSDs/HDDs the size of tens of TBs.

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Such devices die. I like laptops to be self contained.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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rc primak, genej101

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Plus, external devices limit portability.  If a computer doesn’t normally travel, that’s probably not an issue, but if a laptop computer spends a lot of time in a travel case, reliance on an external drive is often a liability.  I’ve found that to be a problem with Mac users that buy entry-level models with only 256 GB of SSD that can’t be upgraded.

If you don’t need a computer to travel, it’s worth re-considering whether you really need to use a laptop.  Another option is a Mini-PC. Those are machines that are essentially laptops, in that all the peripherals are bundled with the motherboard, but since they don’t ship with a keyboard and display, have a much smaller form factor.  Connect all your external devices (including hubs) via provided ports, and you can expand as much as you need.  And provide your own display, keyboard and mouse (usually larger than what’s normally bundled on a laptop), where they’re better ergonomically if you’re working from a desktop.

Intel’s NUC machines (now produced by ASUS) may be the best known, but there are other vendors, as well.  All of the major laptop vendors (HP, Dell, Lenovo) all have one or two business-grade offerings, but there are others, as well. ASUS’ PN line works well, and there are several MSI models.  There are a number of vendors that specialize in Mini PCs — Beelink is perhaps the best-known name, and Minisforum and GMKtec are also there, as well as several more whose names turn up if you do a search for “Mini-PC Brands”

Because there’s no external interface devices, the cost of a Mini-PC will generally run a couple hundred dollars less than a comparably configured laptop.

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rc primak

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Storage isn’t a problem as users can connect external SSDs/HDDs the size of tens of TBs.

With Windows installations running up to nearly 100GB depending on what software and user data you leave on the system drive, internal storage for portable and small laptop devices is becoming an issue. Even 250GB inside my Intel NUC is beginning to feel a bit cramped. Having to redirect folders and links like My Documents to secondary or external drives is inconvenient but can be done.

Because there’s no external interface devices…

All NUC mini-PCs have ports to interface with external devices. That’s always been part of their design. Chromebooks however, only have two USB-C ports, one of which is often in use for charging.

Geekom and SimplyNUC are among the primary vendors for NUCs and similar form-factor mini-PCs.

-- rc primak

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I haven’t seen a NUC up close, but I have an ASUS PN-51 (a little bit smaller, physically) that I really like. I got mine “bare bones” about 18 months ago, without memory or storage, and then I got 32 GB of RAM and a 2 TB of SSD from Crucial.    This box performs nicely, with a Ryzen 5500U CPU. I think I got an especially good deal on the computer itself with a close-out (presumably, ASUS moving on to the next generation of CPU), but the combination of computer and RAM/SSD ran me only a little over $500.

I haven’t yet needed to do anything with peripherals other than keyboard, display, mouse and an external hard drive, plus a wired Ethernet connection, and I still have available ports for additional devices.  If I need more, it’s easy enough to add a USB hub. This machine doesn’t leave my desk, so wired connections aren’t an issue.

I also have a Mac Mini that’s working well for me, but I don’t use it heavily, other than a measure of file storage for Mac-specific software, and as a test bed for configuration management and knowing troubleshooting technique.  It has an M1 processor in it, but I got it cheap with only 8 GB of RAM and 256 GB of SSD.  Although it does everything I want in the way of performance, I’ve noticed that at 256 GB, I do have to be careful about my storage demands, and keep unnecessary content cleaned up.  Since it’s connected to a LAN, it’s easy enough to store as much as I need that way (actually, a shared folder on the ASUS box), but if this were a laptop machine that travels, and something that I made more use of for everyday use, I would be struggling a lot more with having enough space.

Machines with 8GB/256GB may not necessarily be a problem if your workflows fit, but I generally don’t recommend that for most users — 16GB/512 generally gives you better future-proofing.  If you have a Windows machine that will handle upgrades later, you can upgrade when you need, but Mac users that want to get 5-years plus out of their machines are likely to need to over-buy, and for longest lifespan, I encourage buyers of machines that can’t be upgraded to consider 32 GB/1 TB as the baseline.

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rc primak, Sueska

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Using an HP Pavilion desktop as my main machine, Win 10 Pro, 16GB RAM, 1TB hard drive, 2TB external backup device. Purchased 11/18, the previous one has 8GB RAM and is a backup but can’t upgrade to Windows 11.

My main machine is still running fine, I expect it will until support for Win 10 ends. I like having a desktop, I’m retired, no need to take my desktop stuff with me as I’ve an iPhone 16 and the latest generation iPad Pro, both of which sync with my password manager and I can get to any apps I use on my desktop via the iPhone or iPad – use both of those to cast streaming services to my Sony Bravia.

I like my setup, it works for me, but six years on a desktop is a lot, Update keeps pushing 11 on me, but I don’t want it. I’ll most likely look for another Pavilion in a year when Win 10 ends. I’ve used 11, helping friends with things, but am still annoyed it even exists as 10 was supposed to be forever. Probably the main reason I’ve not upgraded it. If they’re still affordable next year, open question that one.

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Susan Bradley wrote:

Such devices die. I like laptops to be self contained

Internal storage hardware die too.

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rc primak

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Susan Bradley wrote:

Such devices die. I like laptops to be self contained

Internal storage hardware die too.

One thing you have to be aware of in cheap, low-performance laptops and Chromebooks is that they often don’t use real SSDs. They instead use SD-Card style eMMC, which has a much shorter lifespan than NVME NAND SSD storage. And the eMMC storage is not replaceable or expandable internally.

-- rc primak

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Sueska

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Still Anonymous wrote:

Plus, external devices limit portability.

I use portable T7 2TB, 4TB, SSDs with has no limited portability.

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I use some old iPad Air devices on my flight simulator for various instrument panels.  The battery on one device finally crapped out, sending it into a boot loop.  As a old techie, replacing parts since the days of the IBM XT, I thought I’ll Google how to replace the battery.

When the search result from a well-known self-repair site came back with over 100 steps and ranked it as “extremely difficult”, I finally realized just how much of a disposable society we’ve become, and there’s not a chance I was even going to attempt replacing the battery.  More simple and cost effective to just search the local electronic classifieds for someone selling their old Air to replace it with.  Even Apple won’t offer me 3-cents of “trade-in” value, but they’ll gladly “recycle” it for me…

I guess it’s just a sign of the times, but also sad commentary on our ever growing issues with eWaste.  Everything should at least attempt to be end-user serviceable, with “right to repair” laws.  But that’s just me turning into a grumpy old man.  Who knows?   Next, I’ll be shouting at neighborhood kids to stay off my lawn…

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Lars220, Elly, rc primak, SueW, Myst, Tem, satrow

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I guess I got lucky (actually I did my research) when buying my Intel-based Chromebook. When it reached end of updates I was able to go to iFixit, order a few tools and replace the battery, then remove the write-protect screw. A few Root Terminal steps later I had a Linux laptop, albeit with hardware resource limitations and no internal sound.

My point is, a little research and paying extra for quality internal components can pay off in the long run. But a Chromebook is and always will be a Chromebook, and shoehorning Linux into it will never be a perfect fit.

-- rc primak

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I took the Black Friday temptation and ordered a desktop replacement…

Old PC (Windows 10 Pro):
* W11-ineligible Kaby Lake i5 processor
* 8 GB RAM
* SATA HDD
* No M.2 SSD slots.
* Overall, the machine has grown quite slow.

New PC (Windows 11 Pro):
* Business-grade mini PC with i5 processor
* 32 GB RAM
* M.2 SSD
* Purchase price (about $900) is 63 percent discount from full retail.

Reasoning:
Old PC needs more RAM, SSD to replace HDD, and once upgraded it would still be technically ineligible. Towards next October market demand will probably increase, plus Trump threatens tariffs on imports.

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rc primak

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In response to Black Friday and end-of-year deals, the approaching end of life of Windows 10, and the new Presidents threat to impose tariffs on imported goods, we purchased, directly from HP, multiple Z2 Tower G9 Workstations (SKU: 4N3U9AV_MB) with each configured with:

• Windows 11 Pro,
• Intel Core i7-14700 Processor vPro Enterprise (2.1 GHz, up to 5.4 GHz w/Boost, 33 MB cache, 20 core, 65W) + Intel UHD Graphics 770,
• 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR5-4800 UDIMM Memory,
• NVIDIA T400 (4 GB GDDR6, 3 x Mini DisplayPort) Graphics,
• 256 GB PCIe 4×4 2280 Value M.2 SSD,
• Intel Wi-Fi 7 BE200 + Bluetooth 5.4 (no-vPro),
• 5mm SuperMulti DVDRW Optical Disc Drive, and
• 450 W power supply.

According to HP, we saved $1,003.50 on each work station buy purchasing it during their Black Friday / Cyber Week sale period.

Then we ordered the following components to upgrade each of the workstations:

• Two WD BLACK 2TB SN850X NVMe Internal Gaming SSD Solid State Drives with Heatsinks for each machine and
• Crucial Pro 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 6000 (PC5 48000) Desktop Memory Model CP2K16G60C48U5 in order to increase the ram of each PC to 32GB.

By ordering the components and installing them ourselves we have saved hundreds of dollars on each computer.

In addition, we have ordered a new ASUS TUF Gaming AX4200 Wireless Dual-Band Multi-Gig Router (ASTUFAX4200).

Now we have to find time to work on the workstations.

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Susan Bradley wrote: “you can remote into your older Windows 10 and run that beloved application you can’t live without. The Remote Desktop app works in a home network, allows you to remote into an older computer, and even prints remotely.” deep in the article referenced above.  I would like to read/know more about how that concept applies to the obsolescence of Windows 10 desktop/tower computers that cannot be converted to Windows 10.

I have no trouble understanding the words or the concept; but I have not seen the concept suggested as a workaround to extending the usefulness of functional computers made obsolete by Windows 11. My question is this: Is it feasible to protect one or more Windows 10 desktop/tower computers in a home network maintained behind a router firewall while remoting into those devices from a device on which fully supported Windows 11 has been installed and maintained?  In other words, articles that describe Rufus and other substitutes for the OS conversion requirement that every device must have Windows 11 compliant hardware do not discuss continued access to Windows 10 computers by the expedient of remote access by a Windows 11 device. Is remote access alone a viable strategy?

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A viable strategy only for apps that won’t work in W11. Every thing else can be moved to your new machine.

To prevent the W10 machine accessing the internet, open the network configuration and change the DNS and default gateway to 127.0.0.1. This prevents the machine connecting outside your network.

cheers, Paul

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Paul,

Would you engage with me to a limited extent to expand upon your reply to me by message #2730228? You wrote”… apps that won’t work in W11.” I have two instances of critical use accounting type commercial software that I purchased long ago as desk top boxed products with media and licenses for perpetual use. Both software products have many years later been transitioned to annual/monthly subscription method with exhorbitant “maintenance” charges. One each of the software products presently run on 1 of 2 desktop computers that I cannot upgrade to W11 because the very old hardware of each desktop lacks TPM and secure boot features. I cannot re-install on a new W11 computer either product from the distribution media because the respective vendors, I am sure, will not register a new installation of their abandoned products and will demand conversion to their subscription business model.

So, the “won’t work in W11” situation I have is that if I convert to a modern TPM/SB hardware enviroment and install W11, is it feasible for me to connect to the 2 old desktops via a local network  set to DNS and default gateway 127.0.0.1 to maintain access to my obsolete but fully functional software?  Do you know of any better or other solution that you could suggest?

Tom

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You have a good use case for W10, but your software will no longer be certified – it that matters.

I can see a couple of options.
1. Create a virtual machine and run it on your new computer(s). This gives you a recoverable environment that moves with you and your hardware. You probably need a retail W10 license to make the VM work.
You can convert an existing machine to a VM with Disk2VHD from Sysinternals.

2. Use remote control software to connect to the old machines, per the above config. The RC software may want an internet connection for license validation, but this will happen from the W11 machine. (UltraVNC is free and doesn’t seem to require an internet connection.)
This is fine until the hardware gives up.

My preference would be option 1.

cheers, Paul

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Trainpacer, TechTango

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Trainpacer wrote:

I am sure, will not register a new installation of their abandoned products and will demand conversion to their subscription business model.

I’d suggest a call tech support first and ask them straight out.  It would not be good customer relations for them to tell you you’re plain out of luck. You might be pleasantly surprised.

If not, Paul T’s virtual machine (Hyper-V) work around is a option.  He knows his stuff.

Desktop Asus TUF X299 Mark 1, CPU: Intel Core i7-7820X Skylake-X 8-Core 3.6 GHz, RAM: 32GB, GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050 Ti 4GB. Display: Four 27" 1080p screens 2 over 2 quad.

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Paul T

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Tech Tango  wrote “call tech support first and ask them”.  I appreciate the suggestion, but I have contacted both companies, who are Intuit and Lexis/Nexis, and “good customer relations” were not available at either behemoth enterprise for my legacy software that pre-dates 2018.  The response from their marketing/sales departments was “Pay Us!” Neither grants access for tech support to a caller who cannot prove a current paid up subscription was my experience.

I plan to pursue Paul’s suggestions.

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Trainpacer wrote:

I have contacted both companies, who are Intuit and Lexis/Nexis, and “good customer relations” were not available at either behemoth enterprise for my legacy software that pre-dates 2018.

Well, at least you know.  Thanks for the feedback.

Desktop Asus TUF X299 Mark 1, CPU: Intel Core i7-7820X Skylake-X 8-Core 3.6 GHz, RAM: 32GB, GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050 Ti 4GB. Display: Four 27" 1080p screens 2 over 2 quad.

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