Choosing between Windows 7 and Windows 8

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I was checking out new computers on HP’s website and I saw that Windows 8 has 2 categories
— Windows 8 & Windows 8 64
— Does Windows 8 mean that it’s a 32 bit system or is there some over significance I should know?
— Since this is the newest OS I should check out how they run

I also noticed that Windows 7 64 is still available
—Is there an end of life time for this operating system?
— Right now I prefer to buy a Windows 7 64 since the ones my friends have work very nice especially compared to my XP computer

However I want to compare manufacturers and OS’s before I decide what to buy

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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Get more information before you buy, talk to a rep if your questions are not properly addressed on the website.

Does Windows 8 mean that it’s a 32 bit system or is there some over significance I should know?

Yes, typically Windows 8 will be 32 bit unless specifically stating 64 bit.
From the HP site, I have not seen a Windows 7 32 bit desktop computer on offer.

Windows lifecycle fact sheet

If you are purchasing a 64 bit OS ensure that you are getting at least 6GB of RAM at a minimum of 1300MHz
Don’t get stuck with a 64 bit system that only has 4GB of memory.

Compare operating systems

compare PC manufacturers

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The other consideration is that the new PC with Win 8 pre=loaded, whether 32 Bit or 64 Bit is most likely Win 8 Standard, not Win 8 Pro. Compare the 2 versions to see if the Standard version will work for you or do you need the Pro version.

My personal preference is Win 8 Pro. I have replaced Win 7 Ultimate on our PCs with Win 8 Pro. I will not go back to Win 7. The differences have been discussed in detail through this forum, so I will not rehash all that here. If you decide on Win 8, check out the Sticky Threads in this forum for many tips to use Win 8 more efficiently.

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Thank you
After reviewing your comments I’m going with Winows 8 64 bit.
I only use my computer for Word, Excel and sometimes Powerpoint
My brother plays Pogo games
We both use Yahoo for our home page & Yahoo email
In my case I might switch to Google

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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Thank you
After reviewing your comments I’m going with Winows 8 64 bit.
I only use my computer for Word, Excel and sometimes Powerpoint
My brother plays Pogo games
We both use Yahoo for our home page & Yahoo email
In my case I might switch to Google

Do your own research and LOOK into what you are actually buying.
Form your own opinions by doing the work and NOT relying on others’ opinions.

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Do your own research and LOOK into what you are actually buying.
Form your own opinions by doing the work and NOT relying on others’ opinions.

I would like to echo Clint’s recommendation here. The only consideration I would add is that with the proper add ons (Classic Shell or other Start menu add on and disabling the hot spots), you can make Windows 8 look and operate just like Windows 7. Although I personally don’t see any killer capabilities in Windows 8 over Windows 7, it will be supported by Microsoft longer, so for that reason alone I would choose Windows 8 when buying new. I don’t see any reason to upgrade an existing Windows 7 box though.

But as Clint says, make up your own mind.

Jerry

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Just be aware that the Win 8 interface will be completely different from your friend’s Win 7. It’s pretty much unusable with a non-touch interface until you get some addons like a start menu or are able to learn and be satisfied using the alternative methods for desktop program access. BTW, Win 7 support ends sometime in the year 2020. Most of us are very unsatisfied with those alternative methods but a good start menu can tame that beast.

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IMO, you can use Win8 and its UI with or without a touch interface. I do it all day everyday – mostly non-touch. It takes a little getting used to but it is not a big deal. I will say that I still spend most of my time in the desktop so some of the difficulties others perceive about the interface are mitigated somewhat. But, I do use the main Win8 UI often and don’t see the big deal.

If you are lucky enough to live near a Microsoft store go there and see some machines that are setup without the garbage the many OEMs load.

Joe

--Joe

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Thanks everyone for your inputs. As I do my research I know I’ll have the confidence to find the computer that I’ll be happy with.

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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When you purchase Windows 8 it comes w/ both 32-bit & 64-bit installation discs.

With a new computer? :confused:

Bruce

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I believe Drew was mentioning purchase of Win 8 in DVD form. It was not totally clear. When purchased pre-installed on a new PC it will only have the “bitness” of the PC and will probably not come with installation disks. In this case the user would need to make Recovery disks.

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I believe Drew was mentioning purchase of Win 8 in DVD form. It was not totally clear. When purchased pre-installed on a new PC it will only have the “bitness” of the PC and will probably not come with installation disks. In this case the user would need to make Recovery disks.

But he was doing it in the same post where he recommended for and against purchasing various brands of laptop and desktop, seeming to answer “checking out new computers”.

That’s why I found it totally confusing.

Bruce

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I don’t know if you’re looking at a laptop or a desktop with win 8, but if a laptop I would suggest you look at the touch screen features on a laptop and decide if having that option is worth spending the money. It is a nice feature and you should go to a best buy or other stores that have touch screen laptops and try it out. You may decide you don’t need it but you should play with it like you would the keyboard and other features before you decide.

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there were a lot of good replies on this thread i read…i was initially afraid to even think about upgrade after xp w/spe…im a 57 yr old dinosaur…for christmas, my brother in indiana gave me a christmas gift…it came 1 by 1 in parts…first a monitor…then motherboard,processor,cooling fans,power supply etc…the only thing i had to do was get a cooler master tower glite for this…it also came loaded with win 8 pro 64 bit…which he also bought for me for this custom made system…quite the gift…i am fortunate to have as a best friend, a missile and computer expert from white sands missile proving ground…he helped me rebuild this behometh…win 8 pro 64 bit for me was like an alien come to visit…i like and prefer the classic windows shell…i can find everything this way…i prefer to read what im clicking on…not the eye candy tiles windows gives you and i like a start button with all icons hidden on start screen…i researched all available and am happy with classic shell which is free and very easy to set up and use…i found out there is nothing to fear with win 8 pro 64 bit…it works flawlessly and effortlessly…ive since relegated my asus eee pc notebook win xp system to doing no more than running my viop magic jack phone…that is how good win 8 pro is…to all the curious…the hardware custom builtcomponents for this machine is as follows…asustek F1A75-v evo (fm1) motherboard…AMD A8-3850 APU with Radeon HD Graphics processor…4 sticks for a total of 16 gb Corsair Vengence ram…600 watt xion power supply unit with 3 speed fan setting button…and of course win 8 pro 64 bit with media center…hope this is helpful to fellow dinosaurs such as myself…enjoy

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I was also somewhat confused. That is probably why I assumed he was talking about the Win 8 Disks versus a pre-installed PC. I know he did buy DVDs for his personal installation.

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now & 128 is on the horizion.

What!? 128bit CPU on the horizon?

There are hybrid CPU’s that have an ability to manipulate data registers wider than 64 bits, but these are not 128 Bit CPU’s in the conventional sense and a true 128 Bit CPU is a very long way off.

Just to be clear, currently the “bitness” of a CPU primarily refers to the width of the address bus:

A 32 Bit processor has a 32bit wide address bus and can address 2^32 bits (4 Giga Bytes) in its address space without using PAE or other technologies.

A 64 bit CPU can address 2^64 bits (roughly speaking 16,000,000 Giga Bytes).

A 128 Bit CPU could address 2^128 bits (a number so staggeringly large that it almost defies comprehension….3.4×10^29 GB….3,400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Bytes, give or take the odd byte or two).

{actually that’s an over simplification due to my mixture of Kilo=1024 and kilo=1000 notations}

In 2010 there were an estimated 2^70 bytes stored on Earth. A 128 Bit CPU could address that quantity of data 2^58 times over (roughly 3,000,000,000,000,000,000 times).

32Bit CPU
64Bit CPU
128Bit CPU

/Edit for the OP…Go for 64 Bit whichever OS you choose, but make that choice based on your own hand’s on testing: Windows 8 is different to Windows 7.

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Sorry, guess I was just tryiing to cover all bases… I don’t think I found to OP all that clear. That said, the chances of a new, pre-loaded machine, these days, not supporting x64 is very slim & unlikely. Very little x86 will be found anymore; it is fairly passe. x64 is the way to go, now & 128 is on the horizion.

I was confused by “discs”, not bitness.

Bruce

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I am surprised at some of the opinions expressed in this forum. You do not need a touch screen to make Win8 workable. You do not need any menu add on to make it workable. The opening screen works well with a scroll mouse. Instead of scrolling vertically it scrolls horizontally. Where’s the problem in that? Once you have accessed the desktop a touch on the windows key takes you back and forth between the start menu and desktop very quickly. ALT+F4 will close any program and at the desktop will give you options. The learning curve is not at all steep. As to the amount of memory required – 4GB is ample for most of us. Remember when people give you their recommendation their opinion is often and expression of their prejudices.

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As Jerry, and others have mentioned, search for ‘how to make win8 look like win7’, I wasn’t thrilled about the new graphical interface and constantly found myself going between pages to find essential tools and programs. The solutions I discovered worked very well to bring back the old interface, start button, remove hot spots, ect. and still give me the fast smooth win8. This was especially essential to keep peace in the family, if my wife ever saw the drastic changes to the new interface, I would be looking for a new place to live. I also found a way to edit the registry, making the need for logging in each time Win 8 starts up. Great for home computing! (Using Win 8 pro 64):rolleyes:

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@JeffHVT, Welcome to the Lounge.

The sign on does not require a registry hack to shut it off. You can accomplish this as follows:

Open an Elevated Command Prompt – Win + X, Command prompt (Admin)

type the following: control userpasswords2

In the Window that opens uncheck Users must use a User Name and Password to sign on to this PC

OK out, done!

33136-Win8userpassword

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If you’re buying a new computer, especially a laptop/notebook/ultrabook, go Win8. It’s what they offer now (unless you’re picking up a refurbished or leftover model where you might still get Win7 as an option.) This is especially true if you don’t have a lot of peripherals you hook in via USB. If the latter is the case, then check first to make sure you gan get Win8 drivers for most or all of those peripherals. If you can’t, consider the cost factor. You can probably pick up a leftover or a refurb computer at a bargain price and not have to replace any peripherals. But except for this circumstance, go with the newer OS- your laptop will be configured to run with it, and it- and any new peripherals you get subsequently- will have a longer shelf life.

Not your particular circumstance, but if you’re upgrading from XP, I’d go with Win7. The interface will be more familiar, there will almost certainly be compatible drivers available, and the support lasts for another 7 years! Your already-used computer and peripherals will undoubtedly need replacement long before then, and there’ll probably be a new and even-better OS available at that time.

To use the old medieval classification, I’m neither a computer apprentice nor a master, but am somewhere on the journeyman spectrum. Noting that Windows seems to alternate between excellent (Win98, WinXP, Win7) and buggy (WinME, Vista) systems, I’ve always tried to purchase a laptop as the good system reaches maturity, and just before the next (and most likely buggy) system is introduced. So I bought an XP laptop just before Vista (thank God), and just bought a Win7 laptop last year before Win8. I usually need a new laptop for power/features/form factor by the time the OS I’m buying has it’s support expire- especially likely with Win7!

That being said, with Win8, Windows is clearly working toward an OS that will work on all platforms from desktop/laptop to tablet to smartphone. When and if they get to that point, I’ll gladly jump to that new OS- as soon as SP1 becomes available for it.

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I can’t believe all the comments recommending Windows 8. There must be some lack of real world knowledge here. Windows 8 is just a misguided attempt by Microsoft to get a share of the iPad market. From what I can see the plan is to force Desktop and laptop users to use the touch screen interface. They will love it so much that when they buy a tablet pc they will choose one with Windows 8 on it. Good luck Microsoft. I don’t see that happenning and you risk taking down Microsoft, HP and Dell in the attempt.

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Opinions, however misguided, are always welcome. The members here include both IT professionals and fairly well versed amateurs. Many of us have been using Windows in the real world since before v 3.1. To say we lack real world knowledge because many of us prefer Win 8 actually shows a narrow knowledge of the Windows Secrets lounge, and perhaps of Win 8.

We have discussed the benefits and/or lack thereof in numerous threads throughout this forum. Please do not say we are lacking in real world knowledge as that could be considered close to flaming, what ever side of the discussion we might be on.

The OP asked for opinions of Win 7 versus Win 8 and has received comments on both sides. Even though I disagree with some of the comments presented throughout these forums of those that do not like Win 8, I have never told them they lack real world knowledge. Just as I do not believe those of us that do like Win 8 lack real world knowledge.

This is not a great way to garner support from the other members of the Lounge with your first post!

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I have been using computers since 1976 (On a Main frame) and every version of Windows, Dos and GEM before Windows. I sincerely apologise if any offence is taken and regret that. It is intent of this forum to pass on knowlege discuss common problems. Sorry if I got carried away Medico.

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Apology accepted. Many of the members here, especially those that volunteer our time answering questions, also have many years behind us. I also started in 1971 with Fortran Programming. We all have our opinions on what works for us. Many of us really do like Win 8, and many do not.

Personally, Win 8 works very well for me on 2 conventional (non-touch) laptops and 1 conventional (non-touch) desktop. They all look and feel just as Win 7 did before I Custom Installed Win 8 and replaced Win 7.

I would welcome posts on your vast knowledge of PCs. We can always use more experienced users. It is just that your first post implied those of us that do like Win 8 do not have any real world knowledge, and that just ain’t so.

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I’m still on Win7 so I am just going by what I have read on the internet. There do not seem to be many reported downsides to running Win8 compared to Win7. One comment I read stated that flipping Win8 over to classic mode is actually a little faster than Win7. That might even be true.

On the other hand I also read that Microsoft is losing interest in Windows Media center. You may need to pay extra if you want to add WMC to Win8. (the free upgrade was supposed to expire in January) You may not care about WMC, I found it worked well for recording TV except for it’s proprietary video format.

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My personal results are that Win 8 is somewhat faster than Win 7 was for me on my PCs. I like many of the new features. I do use either Start8 or Classic Shell to allow a Start Orb app, which also allow me to set my system up to boot to the Desktop at power on, and to disable the hot corners on the desktop. So for me there is no question that I will not be going back to Win 7.

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As Medico has noted, opinions in this area vary – a lot. My impression is that the overall ‘enthusiast’ PC community is considerably more critical of Win 8 than has been expressed so far in this thread: for a much wider cross-section of opinion, you might want to look at the user reviews of the Win 8 Pro Upgrade at Amazon.com and Newegg.com (and consider that most of those reviews were written when this upgrade was selling at between $29.99 and $69.99 rather than its current price of $99.99 at Amazon and $199.99 at Newegg, so the criticism wasn’t related to cost-effectiveness).

My own assessment is that the new user interface presented by Win 8 is a pain in the butt that can be at least moderately tamed via sufficient research into changes in settings and third-party add-ons that make it work a lot more like Win 7 did. There are a few minor benefits that Win 8 has over Win 7, but if both were selling at the same price and were going to be supported for an equally long time by Microsoft I’d opt for Win 7 in a heartbeat.

Then again, if you only need to use your computer as you describe in post #5, why on earth do you think you need anything more than you already have? I’d be inclined to wait until I actually needed something more and then see what was available that best addressed those needs (which might lead to a different choice than one you’d make today).

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My impression is that almost all the complaints against Win8 are the new graphic and touch screen features that can be turned off if you really hate them. The classic mode Win8 is supposed to be nearly indistinguishable from Win7.

As I said in the previous post, Win8 seems to be a better choice unless you care about Windows Media Center and even then you just need to purchase an extra app.

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Ted, it might be even more effective if you posted the start screen second, don’t ask which is which, because that’s not what new users are confronted with. However with the second screen depicting the Start screen and a line after that indicating that you installed Classic Shell or Start8 and ta da! Third pic just like the 1st and it would be nice to see the actual start menu responsible. Not that I’m telling you what to do, just an idea I had for what seems a better approach…more tactile disclosure.

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You decide! Which is Win 7 and which is Win 8:

31399-Win7Desktop

For those that use the default settings you will see this screen when you first boot your PC:

33144-Win8StyleStartScreen
Obviously my Win 8 Style Start Screen has been customized as well.

On my PCs I use both Start8 (my PC) and Classic Shell (wife’s PC and desktop PC), so when I boot our PCs this is the screen that displays

32469-Win8desktop

If you look close enough you can tell.

My PC automatically boots to this. I have a Start Orb. YMMV!

This is my Start Orb:

33145-StartOrb-Start8

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The latest episode of TWiT had a very good panel, including Ed Bott and discussion of Win 8 came up of course and this is over 3 months in now so the arguments should be refined. Ed had the most odd argument for, in that he said windows resize on the metro screen exactly as they should, instead of having to fiddle around with arranging them on the desktop screen. I was stunned! If that’s the best argument… The rest were universal in that it made little sense on a large screen or without a touch device…but y’all can listen to it for yourself if you like.

Oops, I forgot Ed also mentioned the sync across devices, which is good but he also mentioned the lack of solid apps.

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I agree, does the change I just made have more of an impression?

Like I have said many times, those railing against the Win 8 Style Start Screen have very simple, and in many cases free, approaches to get back to a more familiar interface. Yes it means installing a 3rd party app, but so what! We all install many 3rd party apps on our PCs. This is just one more very small app that makes a huge difference for many people.

If you enjoy using your PC without this addition, then go for it! But if you feel more comfortable with something familiar, then go for that as well. These things are called Personal Computers because we CAN personalize them as much as we want. I just do not believe stressing over something so simple as this is a good thing. There are to many important things to stress over. This is simply too easy to overcome to spend more than a few seconds considering.

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Yes,that steps one through the process a bit better I think. I would have made it even more obvious by showing the start menu in the desktop and save one pic but that’s fine. I still don’t see it as customization though, I see it as putting back something that Microsoft removed for absolutely no good consumer reason, especially when it’s replacement is so inferior, talking about the All Apps screen here not just the partial Start screen in a desktop environment.
Who knows what hair-brained idea Microsoft will come up with next so it’s for that reason I think everyone should always qualify why they really like Windows 8, because if they perceive a high acceptance of Windows 8 as is they might get the idea to completely remove the desktop in some future iteration because folks are accepting the Start screen approach. The “easy to overcome” part should be on Microsoft, not the consumer; nothing about including a start menu would have precluded anyone from visiting the Start screen any time they so wished to.

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To put it another way, I don’t see a compelling reason to switch from Win7 to Win8 but I also do not see a compelling reason to choose a new purchase of Win7 over Win8 for a home desktop PC.

At some point in the future Microsoft will find a way to build software that will run on Win8 but not on Win7 but I don’t think that will be very soon.

Stand pat on Win7, no real downside on Win8.

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At some point in the future Microsoft will find a way to build software that will run on Win8 but not on Win7 but I don’t think that will be very soon.

That already happens. The Metro apps run only on Windows 8.

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Hi

I have not tried windows 8 i am still in the old windows xp as it is easy to use for me.. I am wondering if i buy new laptop which is 64 bits.. wont i struggle to look for software for this OS? i mean to say for my printer…

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Some printers and scanners have not been updated with new drivers. The drivers you presently use may work, but the Windows default drivers might give some functionality but you might loose some features.

Printer and scanner manufacturers seem to be some of the worst at updating their S/W for new OSs. HP has always been notorious for this. As Drew says you will have to check. The MS Upgrade Assistantis here.

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Real life intervened else I would have gotten back to this thread sooner.

Question is more importantly are drivers available for legacy items…[/quote]

Indeed – in fact, by referring specifically to his printer I suspect that this is precisely what jacqhawk was getting at, so your initial and unequivocal “No, you won’t” response does not seem to have been all that accurate.

There is no debate between XP & Windows 8 or x64 vs x86. One cannot stay w/ XP or only 32 bit technology.

My, my – such confident opinion masquerading as fact.

There is certainly ‘debate’ between XP and Win 8 and it will continue at LEAST until such time as Win 8 usage really eclipses XP’s (rather than the current situation where XP usage dramatically eclipses Win 8’s). I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for this to occur, since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems indicates that XP desktop usage still rivals Win 7’s while Win 8 usage is still down in the noise (at well under 1/10th of XP’s).

The consequence of such continued strong acceptance of XP is that most common current software versions run happily on 32-bit XP systems (and of course will continue to forever). As the years go by NEW software versions will eventually start dropping support for XP – e.g., new Firefox versions stopped supporting Windows 2000 about 21 months after Microsoft stopped supporting that platform, though of course the versions up through 12.0 that did support Windows 2000 still run fine there – but even then updates for older versions that DO support XP may continue (e.g., Avira’s respected AntiVir anti-malware product stopped supporting Windows 2000 in its new releases but even today still issues engine and malware signature updates for the last version which did support Windows 2000, thus providing effective protection).

If any legacy software or hardware is not compatible w/ the current OS, that has to be accepted

Not unless you actually NEED to run ‘the current OS’ for some reason, and most people don’t need to regardless of how many Microsoft marketeers may try to convince them otherwise. They can (and a great many people DO) just happily run their legacy (plus a lot of still-current) software on their legacy system until hardware supporting that combination is no longer available when something breaks, though paying somewhat more attention to security may be prudent depending on one’s exposure to various sorts of threats.

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I suspect XPs usage is still so high because many corporate users have not yet upgraded due to the cost of doing so. It’s most likely not the cost of the OS, but the cost of proprietary S/W and new H/W that in many cases has held them back. Since support for XP does not end until April 8th, 2014, these users still have time to upgrade, but I suspect we will see some scrambling by some of these users because things tend not to move fast in these corporate environs when it comes to S/W updating. I know the large University and Medical Center where our PMDs are members of has begun the process, but has tens of thousands of users. Some of their client PCs are Win 7, many are still Win XP. It is a time consuming and costly process. They began this update long before Win 8 was released and hence chose Win 7. If Win 8 had been released already, who knows what the choice would have been. Let’s see what the usage statistics shown after support ends.

Win 8 market shareis now ahead of all versions of Mac, although still well behind Win 7, Win XP, or Win Vista. I still suspect the economy has much to do with people not upgrading their H/W yet. I know that is my case. H/W is expensive, especially when our present conventional laptops and desktops work just fine for our purposes. Historically more upgrades, when a new OS is released, come from new PCs rather than simply upgrading from an older OS to the new OS.

If someone is looking at new H/W now, it is not easy to find H/W pre-installed with Win 7. Most is now pre-installed with Win 8 Standard (I’m talking general consumer use here) I just took a quick look through the Best Buy offerings. They had 5 pages of touch enabled PCs (not tablets) and every one was pre-installed with Win 8 Standard. I would suspect if I looked at an online seller I would see similar offerings as the default OS, although most would allow upgrades to Win 8 Pro, and perhaps downgrades to Win 7.

I believe there is just too much volatility in the PC market right now due to these various reasons to ultimately predict how well Win 8 will be doing, say in Nov. this year, after 1 year of availability.

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Most is now pre-installed with Win 8 Standard … although most would allow upgrades to Win 8 Pro, and perhaps downgrades to Win 7.

You can only downgrade from Pro, so not sticking with standard on any new computer will cost an extra $100 whether you go up or back.

Bruce

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Thanks Bruce. I was not sure if the Standard edition could be downgraded. In my mind the Pro upgrade could be beneficial.

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Sometimes people don’t like a person to be candid and if they think they can label something ‘opinion’ then they can ignore it or call it incorrect.[/quote]

Then again, some people actually understand the difference between fact and opinion and are inclined to call out those who don’t. See below.

1 simple reason… it’s so darn good, packed w/ cool features and fantastic technologies and really easy to use.

Opinion. Others have the equally legitimate opinion that it’s a pain to use (mostly because it’s so unnecessarily cumbersome and/or just unnecessarily different executing common desktop functions when compared with Win 7) and that some of those ‘cool features’ are actually destructive (just consider the number of people HERE who have been bitten by the vagaries of the ‘cool’ “shutdown now really means hibernate” ‘fast startup’ facility). While some people may find at least some of those ‘cool’ new features useful, others simply don’t find them of any notable utility at all and therefore aren’t happy to put up with the rest of a package that has no significant benefits for them over Win 7.

7 is/was good but, 8 is better.

Opinion (see above).

I know XXXX will disagree w/ me but, there is no need to add 3rd Party stuff to try and make 8 look/act like an OS it is not.

The fact that a reasonable person who is also a fan of Win 8 disagrees with you here is a STRONG indication that what you’re offering is simply an opinion. The fact that many other fans of Win 8 here share XXXX view suggests that your opinion is a minority one.

8 can be used very nicely w/out adding such things

‘Can be used’? Yes. ‘Very nicely’? That’s clearly opinion.

I give my clients 8 w/out such stuff and they, still, love it.

While loads of other people don’t, even with such ‘unnecessary’ add-ons: see the high percentage of VERY negative reviews of the Win 8 Pro update package at Amazon and Newegg for a far larger sample size than you’ve likely got access to. As the saying goes, everyone has an opinion, and an awful lot of them don’t agree with yours.

You can, also, imagine I do not feel downgrading from 8 makes any sense, at all. Look up downgrading… means going to something lesser, older or below what one has… the definition sure applies in this context.

Yet another opinion. While industry-standard terminology defines an ‘upgrade’ in this context simply as moving to a newer system version, such a move by no means always constitutes an upgrade in utility in any general sense (consider, for example, the ‘upgrade’ from Win98SE to WinME or in many people’s opinion that from XP to Vista). That’s why so many people put quotes around the word ‘upgrade’ when applying it to moving from Win 7 (or XP) to Win 8 (though to be fair I haven’t seen many people use quotes when talking about upgrading from Vista to Win 8).

Choosing between them… pretty easy decision… 8, no question, hands down & absolutely.

An easy decision for you, anyway. And often for others who hold exactly the opposite view: that’s one of the characteristics of opinions vs. facts.

I’ve always liked 7, had no problems w/ it and it’s a very good OS… but, then 8 came along and is the #1 preference/choice.

Do you have primarily an engineering or a marketing background, Drew? Your insistence on presenting opinion as fact despite frequent correction suggests the latter, but it’s been known for even fairly good engineers to move to the dark side.

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(just consider the number of people HERE who have been bitten by the vagaries of the ‘cool’ “shutdown now really means hibernate” ‘fast startup’ facility).

One or two, I believe, and in unusual circumstances; because both Restart and shutdown /p do a full shutdown, so it’s rarely inconvenient.

… but, then 8 came along and is the #1 preference/choice.

If you just put “my” there instead of “the”, you might keep Bill happy!

Bruce

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One or two, I believe

The number of people here (including me) who have encountered unexpected problems with ‘fast startup’ is definitely greater than two, and the number who have mentioned that they disabled ‘fast startup’ or created a shortcut to perform a real shutdown is greater again (but I’ll admit that it’s only an assumption that at least some in this second group had encountered or at least expected to encounter problems that caused them to do this rather than just did so for a lark).

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Ya, I can’t say the O-word or I get deleted. I hope I can say that I (me, myself, no one else (well maybe Irene too)) am not a pompous fool and would insist that anyone consider my prose suspect at any time. On one hand, I guess it’s good there is a start screen I.U. since it’s the only Windows OS of it’s kind with one which makes a real touch interface possible and since we already know that a desktop interface in not good at all in a mobile environment, naturally it follows that the touch interface is perfeck for home desktop use. That my friends is fact, do not argue with me.
Never mind that my all apps screen scrolls now and I can’t find anything in under a minute and most apps I try are nowhere near as functional as their desktop equivalents and when I want to browse or retrieve file folders on my local home network, this fine unifying OS cannot do it unless they are in homegroup libraries or the target supports DLNA (which most NAS drives do these days); the latter of which one might be tempted to find extremely inadequate since it lists everything in all folders alphabetically. I’m sure it’s better to sort through hundreds of files with very similar nomenclature until I decipher the proper sort character by eye some 5-7 characters into each name; I’m positive it’s my fault for having such a structured folder-based way of ordering my data; and all that data on non-supported locations? Believe me my friends, you do not need it, otherwise Windows 8 would not have determined it is not accessible because clearly it is superior in every way. You cannot argue with fact my friends. Thank you.

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Much, if not most of what I say is based on factual, even measured, observations and actual use.[/quote]

The problem, Drew, is that you don’t understand just how limited your own observations are compared with the vastly greater range of experiences out there – many of which lead to significantly different conclusions than those that you’ve drawn yourself. And (perhaps worse) that you can’t acknowledge that vastly wider range of experience even after it’s been brought to your attention.

In other words, your mind seems so closed that you just don’t listen. Little wonder that you can’t distinguish your own opinions from actual facts.

Nice for XXXX that Bill holds him in such high esteem that everything can be judged (in his mind) against what XXXX thinks.

Dear me – your comprehension seems to be suffering as well, also a common occurrence when one doesn’t listen. (By the way, you should probably check your PM.) My reference was not to any belief in this person’s infallibility (a belief which he himself would probably reassure you I don’t likely hold) but rather to the fact that when someone who shares most of your own appreciation for Win 8 disagrees with you on one aspect of it this is a clue (and this is an area in which you seem to need all the clue you can get) that the disagreement may well be a matter of opinion rather than one based on fact.

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Well it’s not just encountering unexpected problems, it seems to already have become a troubleshooting item, the recommendation being to disable it and see if that was causing the strange behavior. That sort of thing is almost inevitable when an abstract concept or layer is being used to promote another feature, that of faster startup. For example reading numbers and only setting an increment in the corresponding array position is a great way to sort and quantize values as fast as they are read in. Fantastic shortcut to sorting in a jiff, unless presented with an unreasonable range of values requiring an unmanageably large array. To Microsoft’s credit, they’ve dealt with hibernation better than ever, pretty reliable and they’ve attempted to overcome many of the variables that such a layer presents, but, I don’t think the point of disabling it at least temporarily for troubleshooting is going to go away anytime soon.

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I do not wish to get drawn into this discussion but it seems someone keeps trying.

Yes I do like Win 8. It does everything Win 7 did and more, FOR ME! I however do not like all aspects of Win 8. I also believe the Win 8 Style apps are more designed for touch, which I do not have. The only Win 8 Style apps I use are a couple of games, MS Solitaire Collection and MS Mahjong. I spend the rest of my time on the Desktop UI.

I have installed and use Start8 on my PC as a Start Menu replacement app, and have installed Classic Shell on my wife’s PC. We use these similarly to the Win 7 Start Menu. I do not use Start8 for opening most of my apps, I use a Toolbar I developed for that. I believe the method I use, which I also used on Win 7, works best FOR ME!

Win 8 does network better than Win 7, ON MY SYSTEM!

If anyone asks my opinion these are the things I will tell them. It is my opinion that the Desktop UI is easier FOR ME when I have Start8 installed. My opinion is that the All Apps folder or screen takes ME too long to find things.

I have had agreements and disagreements with all parties involved in this discussion. I do try to keep an open mind, and have tried many different methods of doing various things in Win 8. It is my opinion that the way I have customized Win 8 works best FOR ME! My method may not work for the next person.

If an individual wishes to push his methods to his customers, and they are happy with that, then so be it. I also believe it is important to give choices and let others decide what will work best for them. If I give 3 alternatives, and they choose something other than what I use, so be it. It is their choice. If I am asked my opinion I will attempt to give an honest opinion to allow them to decide for themselves.

Things that are facts on my system, might not be a fact on someone else’s system. Each system is different. Please try to keep this in mind.

It is not necessary to be disagreeable with each other. Whether you agree or disagree with someone else’s opinions, kindly respect their right to state it. Individuals reading these discussions (I am unsure if any new member would take the time to read this whole thread) have to make up their own minds on the validity of the arguments. Win 8 is easy to customize to work and feel like Win 7. I know the arguments that we should not have to. I believe things are not going to change and this is the way of things so I have customized my system to work FOR ME. It looks and feels just like my Win 7 did, but seems to work better FOR ME. If you don’t like it, change it!

I guess I’ve taken enough of your time. Have a great day!

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Enough of the back and forth everyone. This seems to happen with almost every thread having to do with the goodness or badness of Windows 8. There are strong feelings on each side of the argument.

--Joe

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Thank you Joe!

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