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I’m on 1809 and I noticed that on this last WU (KB 4511553, etc.) I’m missing approx 5 GB of HDD space. This happened on 2 computers so I started looking and noticed that there are a ton of CBS files, can I just delete them??
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
I’m missing approx 5 GB of HDD space.
Here are the 5GB after Aug. updates (Windows 10 1809)
Thanks, I don’t see C:\System Volume Information, is that a hidden folder?
From the link you provided, I assume it’s ok to delete the CBS files but it won’t help much in getting that 5 GB back, is that correct?
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
Thanks for the reply but that is the path to the jpg I originally posted at the start of this thread. The one I can’t find is C:\System Volume information.
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
Control Panel\Folder Options – on the View tab
Check “show hidden files”
Uncheck “Hide protected System files”
I think the latter will let you see the System Volume Information folder.
When you finish, go back and re-hide the protected system files (or you will see desktop.ini, and thumbs.db and other stuff you don’t want to see, all over the place).
Thanks, that shows it but I get “Access Denied” when I try to open it.
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
Right click on File Explorer, run as Administrator – see if that works.
Or use elevated command prompt/Powershell
Right click on File Explorer, run as Administrator – see if that works. Or use elevated command prompt/Powershell
I tried right click on File Explorer and there is no “Run as Administrator”, maybe it’s because I am an Administrator on this computer???
I’m not that adept at using the cmd prompt or Powershell to figure out the commands but thanks for the info.
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
Your ID is a pseudo Administrator.
The “Run as Administrator” implies the God-Administrator ID, which you don’t see.
Sorry. I was in too much of a hurry. Shouldn’t have posted.
No problem, happens to the best of us.
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
Do you use CCleaner, if so, it can delete the files every time you run it. I run it every time I log off a browser. Installers (such as WU) also leaves behind a bunch of never used files. Some temp and some not so temp. Unless you need them to trouble shoot an install, say bye-bye to them.
I do believe your “Trusted Installer”, a Win program has to be unlocked for CC to work on the Cab files. Used to be 2GB in size and then it compressed them and renamed the file, and stored them. If I understand correctly, you just want the space back, deleting these files has never caused me an issue. (yet) 200Mb a day can add up quickly.
hth
Edit to add:
Disk Clean up might help
Do you use CCleaner, if so, it can delete the files every time you run it. I run it every time I log off a browser. Installers (such as WU) also leaves behind a bunch of never used files. Some temp and some not so temp. Unless you need them to trouble shoot an install, say bye-bye to them.
I do use CCleaner and I assume that you mean checking this box:
That would get me 532 MB but is it safe to get rid of all those files???
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
To delete CBS.log or DISM.log files, just run Notepad as Administrator, File > Open… navigate to the file and open it, delete the contents, save the file and close it.
Sorry ..I forgot to log in before sending the post AND I forgot to attach the .png file.
why would I have such a discrepancy compared to original post?
win10 pro ver 1809 build 17763.678
curiosity is bane of my existence!
Thanks, that shows it but I get “Access Denied” when I try to open it.
You can gain back those GBs by running Disk Cleanup as Admin and deleting Windows Update files.
https://www.howtogeek.com/266337/what-should-i-remove-in-disk-cleanup-on-windows/
You can gain back those GBs by running Disk Cleanup as Admin and deleting Windows Update files
Thanks for the link. If I read that site correctly, getting rid of those files would prevent me from rolling back if I have problems at some point before the 10 days after the upgrade wouldn’t it???
Do all these files just keep piling up from the new cumulative updates until the drive is full or cleaned up?? OR do they eventually go away before you get a new Feature Update??
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
That is correct. Doing so would prevent you from rolling back.
Removing the Feature Upgrade Log Files would prevent a rollback. I’d just live with that situation for about two weeks, then do the full Storage Sense Cleanup, removing those files. They typically run 2GB-5GB in my experience.
Rollback is only possible for ten days, so after two weeks these files are useless cruft. Windows is supposed to remove the files automatically, but when was the last time you deliberately left your PC on and idle at 2AM to let Automatic Maintenance run? (Me neither.)
I say Storage Sense, because it has a more explicit interface than the classic Disk Cleanup. Either way will work, but the Classic is being deprecated, so I prefer to get used to the new way.
-- rc primak
Rollback is only possible for ten days, so after two weeks these files are useless cruft. Windows is supposed to remove the files automatically, but when was the last time you deliberately left your PC on and idle at 2AM to let Automatic Maintenance run? (Me neither.)
If you are using your PC at the scheduled time, or if your PC is powered off at the scheduled time, those maintenance tasks will occur at the next available time when Windows notices you aren’t using your PC. For example, if you leave your PC on and step away from it for a while, Windows will get to work.
How to Schedule Automatic Maintenance on Windows 10 (and What It Does)
But you still need to leave the PC idle for a considerable length of time. I don’t know how many of us do that on a regular basis.
By default, the user is considered absent after four minutes of no keyboard or mouse input.
We all take breaks of 5 or 10 minutes.
This daily session is limited to a maximum duration of 1 hour per attempt. If the user is actively using the machine, the system defers maintenance until a later time. The system also suspends any executing maintenance task if the user returns to the PC.
The system restarts a suspended maintenance task during the next idle period;
Docs / Windows / Task Scheduler / About the Task Scheduler / Automatic Maintenance
Automatic maintenance on my computer takes 20 minutes.
On a fully updated and well maintained PC, your 20 minutes is about right, in my experience. Thanks for all the info.
-- rc primak
Hi CADesertRat,
Like Alex said above, use Microsoft’s “Disk Cleanup”, press the “Clean up System Files” button, and see about removing the “old MS updates and Previous Windows version OS”, Delivery Optimization files, Temp files, etc., and consider clicking the tab (?) to delete all but the last restore point (be careful now) and Shadow Copies if you feel the last restore point is sufficient for you to have (only one). Reboot afterwards.
Please note that there have been times that we have run Disk Cleanup, Windows update files, old Windows Versions and the reboot took up to 45 minutes to complete. Usually it is not that long, maybe 5 to 8 minutes, but we have seen 45 minutes! We too, got worried but left it alone and finally made it to the Desktop. Just reboot, sit back and wait. It is finalizing the cleanup at that moment and it does take time to complete.
I have also used Ccleaner. The older version prior to Avast 5.30. Every month a day or two after getting updates I run Ccleaner. It finds half a Gig of logs and error reports. I do not care so I delete them. Amazing how much error logs are made from an MS update.
Let us know how it goes.
Looks like WU cleanup is where all the GB’s went. I’m not sure about cleaning that out yet. Is it safe since I just updated a couple of days ago??
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
The rollback is good for 10 days.
If your install has no problems, you can clean it out before the 10 days.
After the 10 days, it’s baggage.
CADesertRat, Disk Cleanup showing you your lost space is great. When you do decide to clean, while cleaning the other files, look for the tab to clear out all but the most recent System Restore Points and Shadow Copies. This will make more space. Make sure your last restore Point is a good one or immediately make a new Restore Point after you run Disk Cleanup.
CADesertRat, Disk Cleanup showing you your lost space is great. When you do decide to clean, while cleaning the other files, look for the tab to clear out all but the most recent System Restore Points and Shadow Copies. This will make more space. Make sure your last restore Point is a good one or immediately make a new Restore Point after you run Disk Cleanup.
Yes, I was planning on doing a restore point before cleaning which leads me to the question of whether cleaning the system restore points clears ALL restore points or all but the last? I just did the last update on the 6th so I will wait for a bit before running disk cleanup.
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
CADesertRat, from what I see if you go into the System Restore Management (system protection) area, it will delete all restore points if you click that delete button.
But with Disk Cleanup, it looks like it will delete all but the last Restore Point.
Yes. Highlight all of the files in the CBS folder and hit the Delete key. If any files are in use (one or two will be in use) then you will not be able to delete those. This is normal. After doing this, reboot your computer. When booting up, Windows will automatically create new CBS log files. The new files will be much smaller.
The benefit of doing this, aside from freeing up disk space, is that Windows will be much faster when it checks to see what updates are installed on your computer.
I tried right click on File Explorer and there is no “Run as Administrator”, maybe it’s because I am an Administrator on this computer???
Don’t give yourself Admin access to the hidden System Volume Information unless you absolutely have to. By doing so, you also give malware instant access to the System Volume Information folder such that the malware now has access to infect System Restore points and previous file versions.
Don’t give yourself Admin access to the hidden System Volume Information unless you absolutely have to. By doing so, you also give malware instant access to the System Volume Information folder such that the malware now has access to infect System Restore points and previous file versions.
I don’t have any plans on doing that. I will probably just let that folder alone since I can gain quite a bit back from Disk Cleanup.
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
I’m not sure about cleaning that out yet.
Check again after 10 days as Windows will delete the files during its regular cleaning process.
That automatic cleaning requires considerable idle time with the PC left on but no work being done with it.
Yes, it did. I had other computers to use so it wasn’t a problem. I cleaned each computer one at a time.
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
EP, RCPrimac, GTP and CADesertRat, Anon #1945906 here, You have very good observations and ideas. I feel the “Process Idle Tasks” may have been the reason here. You mentioned the space was not totally there, but later it was. It is possible that Idle Tasks could had deleted more OR may have taken what was still there and zipped (.CAB) it saving the rest of the projected space.
Thank you for the information and glad it did work fine on your computers.
The CBS logs proliferate until (after ~50MB) they’re wrapped up into a .CAB file up to a maximum of ~2GB (a hangover from earlier FAT32 filesystem limitations?).
You can’t just manually delete the files using either the device’s (hidden) Administrator account or as a member of the Administrators group ‘cos they’re owned by System (TrustedInstaller, specifically)… which has greater system privileges than Administrator and/or Administrators.
So… you *first* have to stop the TrustedInstaller service (using elevated privileges) in order to release the system file locks then delete the files, again using elevated privileges. The TrustedInstaller service – once restarted – will just recreate the CBS log files when it needs to.
(To be accurate, TrustedInstaller appears to be both a service and an account with a system-privilege level allowing it access everywhere, even to the hallowed grounds of kernel/ring 0 (zero) of the OS… which neither the (hidden) Administrator account nor any account in the Administrators group should *ever* be able to leverage access to without being signed/licensed by Microsoft… which, of course, they won’t be as they’re just arbitrary constructs per device and thus far too easily manipulated.)
Windows’s built-in cleaner tools do this automatically but it’s not difficult to reproduce… but I’m not going to give info about manipulating account/system privileges which could be misused.
Thanks for the info Rick. So CCleaner has the Admin rights to clean them out (cbs files) as long as I clean out ALL the .log files when doing so (other than ones in use). OR, Disk Cleanup can clean them out upon selection. Am I understanding you correctly?? If that’s the case, what all is safe to clean out with Disk Cleanup (at this point it sounds like the option I should use)? There are a number of suggestions here but I am a bit Leary of taking out the wrong things.
NOTE: (just to be clear) This wasn’t a Feature Update to 1809 that I did, it was just the Aug. updates that Woody recommended installing before Sept. updates come out and all “seems” to be running ok.
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
Hi CDR,
On my Win7 computers, I had to give myself full Admin access to the CBS folder. After doing so, I highlighted everything in the CBS folder and then hit the Delete button. TrustedInstaller would not let me delete the file named CBS.log, but since I was able to blow out all the 2GB .CAB folders (which were causing severe slowdowns when installing updates) and then rebooting, Windows then creates an entirely new and very small CBS.log file and a couple of other new yet really small files. The same should occur on your Win10 computer.
The end result is that if I, for example, double-click on a downloaded update in order to verify whether or not I installed it, Windows Update now very quickly either tells me that the update is installed, or is not installed and then asks me if I want to install it.
The big issue about the .CAB files in the CBS folder is that a ton of them can accumulate once a given .CAB file reaches 2GB in size. The ZIP compression utility which Microsoft uses has a maximum file size limit of 2GB. Thus the computer will periodically create new 2GB .CAB files, and so on, since this is an inherent limitation within the ZIP compression utility which Microsoft uses. I vaguely recall that this is some sort of FAT32 limitation?
Anyway, even on Win10 I do not think that you have to take down TrustedInstaller in order to delete the 2GB .CAB files found in the CBS folder. Instead, you simply have to give yourself full Admin privileges for the CBS folder. Once the .CAB folders have been deleted and after a reboot, Windows will build a new CBS.log file and create a couple of other files. If successful (and you really can’t mess this up), then all of the files in the CBS folder will have file sizes which are only tens to hundreds of thousand bytes in size. This is what you want to see.
Best regards,
–GTP
Nope. ‘Admin’ (either [hidden] Administrator or Administrators level) account rights would NOT allow CCleaner the required access to TrustedInstaller‘s privileges (*almost* the same as System… but not really).
CCleaner (and, for example, third-party antimalware vendors) use the signed/licensing route allowed by Microsoft… which ever narrows – for very good reasons.
I haven’t used CCleaner for more than 7 years but it obviously knows the current system hooks to elevate its operations over and above Administrator/Administators to System level privileges if it can force-halt service(s) and delete CBS logs.
I haven’t used CCleaner for more than 7 years but it obviously knows the current system hooks to elevate its operations over and above Administrator/Administators to System level privileges if it can force-halt service(s) and delete CBS logs.
Yes, when I check the Windows logs box in CCleaner and run a check, it shows cbs files in the mix to be deleted along with just about every dadgum log file on the system LOL. I don’t want to get rid of ALL of the log files. That’s why I was curious about what is safe to clean in Disk Cleanup.
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
Hah, apparently no way to delete a post.
CCleaner is just a GUI.
It’s relatively easy to circumvent system protection using PowerShell from an elevated prompt/script… the API hooks are readily available to developers.
Use Google search and just be VERY careful.
(You may need to search/add PS add-ons to elevate PS to use TI/System privileges. I don’t… I use AutoHotkey to wrap/mix PS and third-party utils via convoluted commandlines so I don’t need to get involved in all the API stuff…)
I know next to nothing about Powershell and would be afraid to use it so my plan of action is going to be to get some of my NVME back with Disk cleanup, I just need to know what not to clean out. Guess I could take some of the recommendations from earlier post’s here and hope for the best or google what is safe.
Thanks
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
CADesertRat, Rick has some very detailed and informed information. GTP has a solution he uses too.
You noticed it (CBS) is in Ccleaners list of log to delete. After a few days of being sure your PC is running properly, you might just go for it and delete those logs. Unless you are currently repairing a problem or working with Microsoft, why keep them? Your choice.
I also wonder if Ccleaner is using the “delete upon next boot” method to get rid of files -before- windows starts.
Raymond says, “…rename/move files the next time the system boots up. This task is performed by reading a registry entry called PendingFileRenameOperations located at HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager.”
https://www.raymond.cc/blog/why-are-you-asked-to-restart-after-install-or-uninstall-software/
Wow Rick, I really hate to see you go. You have been a pillar of knowledge/help for me for many years. First on WSL and now AW. Of course I’m thinking of myself and others that you have helped but sounds like you have burned out and it’s time to take care of yourself.
Your wisdom and experience will be sorely missed. Be well and take care of yourself and have fun. Bye
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
Rick
I,as many here, will be very sorry to see you go. What new endeavor are you planning on pursuing ? I wish you the best in what ever you pursue, I am sure you will be a master of any thing you set your mind. I hope you enjoy whatever you decide to do.
Regards,
David
Well, I’m running Disk Cleanup on the computer that I started this thread about, it’s like watching paint dry to get the WU cleanup files back LOL. I didn’t see where to cleanup any restore points but I just noticed that there is a “more” tab so maybe that’s where it’s at.
I’m on another computer right now that probably needs the same process after the 1st one finishes.
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
Hmmm, instead of the 9.7 GB disk cleanup showed in my earlier screen shot, I only got 5.4 GB back. Evidently it doesn’t give it all back for some reason and I opened disk cleanup again and it no longer shows WU cleanup files to be cleaned. BTW, I restarted after the cleanup even though it didn’t ask for it.
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
It’s the other tab in the System Files part of Disk Cleanup for the shadow copies and the restore points.
It’s the other tab in the System Files part of Disk Cleanup for the shadow copies and the restore points.
So that would be the rest of the 9.7 GB if I run the other tab??
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
You’ll have to look. I was just giving directions.
Get this and thwack everything you don’t like, but make sure you know what you are thwacking:
https://www.jam-software.com/treesize_free/
It’s a very powerful tool.
Not sure if cleanup continued running in the background or what but I now have the full 9.70 GB back
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
Did you reboot. Some things don’t get deleted until a reboot.
Yes, you will see it in the description I gave in post #1945466. So my extra gain was after a reboot and after the computer set for awhile. Strange !!!!!
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
CADesertRat, “Not sure if cleanup continued running in the background or what but I now have the full 9.70 GB back ” I was wondering what happened too! I am glad it balanced out.
I don’t think it was running in the background, but we have seen it take a long time to get to the login screen or desktop after a large cleaning. I feel it does crosscheck and make sure pointers are set right. The reason I say that is because I remember a guy deleting an “old windows” folder after a repair or maybe an upgrade. When he did, it seemed some files lost their “pointers” and he had issues. So, I always tell people to clean out the “old windows versions” and update files using Disk Cleanup.
I am very happy it worked out for you. Now lets celebrate CA by going out in the Desert where the Rats are and drive in our Jeeps. [The Rat Patrol]
I am very happy it worked out for you. Now lets celebrate CA by going out in the Desert where the Rats are and drive in our Jeeps. [The Rat Patrol]
LOL, I’m old enough to remember that show (The Rat Patrol with Christopher George, at least I think that was his name).
The only thing I can figure out is that after the reboot, it must have finished it’s task.
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).
The CbsPersist_xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.log and CbsPersist_xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.cab files from C:\Windows\Logs\Cbs folder can be deleted by users with Admin rights but not CBS.log directly (the CBS.log file is always in use by Windows). I’m doing them myself from time to time
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