Buying a new desktop PC

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My desktop PC is on its last legs and needs replacing – but with what?

Before buying my first PC I attended a half-day introduction to computers and asked which brand they would recommend. They were using Dell, and said it was very reliable, so I’ve stuck with Dell ever since.

However, aware that the sensors and diagnostic tools are rather poor on Dell machines, I am considering a change, but have no idea what to buy. There only appear to be 2 computer magazines in the UK now – I had a look through one but the reviews and ads were all about laptops and tablets, apart from one high-end machine out of my price range, and the other was in a sealed wrapper, so no help there.

I understand that HP is similar to Dell in being underequipped, so can rule that out, Sony has been strongly recommended by a neighbour, but is quite pricey, which leaves Acer, Asus, Compaq, Lenova and Samsung. The latter has a good reputation in other fields, and is somewhat cheaper that Sony, it might just come within my means. I know nothing about the reliability of the others – so would welcome suggestions.

On the other hand, I have been fairly lucky with Dell. My first PC (Win 95, then 98) lasted 5 years until stolen when the house was burgled, replaced by the current XP 10 yrs and two months ago. My wife has a 6yr old Vista desktop and a 4yr old laptop now running Win 8. So 4 machines, 25 yrs of use and never had a failed hard drive. In fact the only mechanical problem in all that time was a graphics card failure last month on the wife’s desktop, which only cost us £30 when the repair shop said if we don’t use it for games we could just use the built in graphics. The wife hasn’t noticed any difference in performance.

A few other points I need to know when making my choice:
I believe 4GB RAM is the minimum with Win 8, and preferably more – correct?.
What are shared graphics?
I don’t understand how Intel i3, i5 etc compare with the old classification, but assume i5 is faster then i3.
Finally, being technically illiterate where computers are concerned, perhaps I don’t need better sensors, etc. It’s just irritating when I bring my problems to the lounge and am unable to answer some of the questions I’m asked.

Many thanks for any guidance offered,

George

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I don’t see why you would change from Dell, unless you wanted to “assemble” one yourself. The reliability would seem to be a major advantage. Depending on what you do, 4GB RAM is the recommended entry point, yes. Buying more would depend on price and what you want to do with it. If you are planning 10 extra years, I would say buy more if you can.

Many graphics chips on-board use part of your RAM, diminishing the amount available for other apps. This is not really that good and if you have an option to buy one with a dedicated graphics chip and dedicated RAM, performance will benefit, even if in the long run.

i5 is more powerful than i3, i7 more than i5. If you have been running a XP machine, i3 will be enough, i5 probably a better option, for greater longevity. i7 may be too much, but it really depends on your budget.

Not totally sure what you mean by sensors. Never really worried too much about that, to be honest. Any modern motherboard will offer ways to monitor basic relevant parameters.

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My desktop PC is on its last legs and needs replacing – but with what?

A few other points I need to know when making my choice:
I believe 4GB RAM is the minimum with Win 8, and preferably more – correct?.
What are shared graphics?
I don’t understand how Intel i3, i5 etc compare with the old classification, but assume i5 is faster then i3.
Finally, being technically illiterate where computers are concerned, perhaps I don’t need better sensors, etc. It’s just irritating when I bring my problems to the lounge and am unable to answer some of the questions I’m asked.

Many thanks for any guidance offered,

George,

Hello..Wow what a question.. You will get about as many answers as there are PC’s.. I’ll try to answer some of your questions

1. 4GB of Ram is the Max for any 32 bit OS.. So unless your getting a 64 bit machine that’s the limit it can use.

2. Some PC’s use a separate Graphics card …others use “on board” graphics ( part of motherboard )

3. You can check out this site for a CPU comparison

As far as which PC …well only you can make that call ..You would have to weigh the price vs performance you want .. Things that would be important to me wouldn’t necessarily matter to you.. My list would include .

a. Space for more than one HD (one for OS and the other for DATA)
b. A CPU with mulit cores …at least 4
c. A large Power Supply .. At least a 500W
d. large monitor ..At least 22″
e. Nothing remotely resembling Windows 8, Secure Boot, or GPT formatted partitions.. My 2¢… Windows 7 64 Pro is the best choice

Basically i would probably not be able to find what i wanted …so would just build another myself… You could too :cheers: Regards Fred

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Go to various websites of manufacturers, including Dell, and see what you can customize.
Many manufacturers will allow you to choose components to a limited extent.

*Avoid shared graphics; that usually means “on the board” integrated graphics=weak office-like systems.
*Memory; 4GB is max with 32 bit, 6GB is minimum with 64 bit.
Don’t even think about anything less than 6GB in a 64 bit desktop, irrigardless of what ANYONE else tells you..
*CPU; Aim for a quad core i5 or i7.

All motherboards will have CPU & MB sensors, but they are more of a staple on performance machines.

Make your own attempt to learn about various components by actually searching for information on the internet;
CPU’s and chipsets
gpu cards comparison
how to buy a desktop computer
computer memory
motherboard sensors

Google what you don’t know
Google what you don’t know
Google what you don’t know

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Hi guys,
Sorry for the delayed response, but Monday – Thursday this week is pretty hectic. With the London Film Festival and various other events I am out most of the time, but have a couple of hours now for lunch and this reply, then out again for the evening.

Thanks for your help. It looks as though it would have been better to ask which makes to avoid, rather than which to select.

@ ruirib. Intrigued by your second sentence, which seems to imply that Dell is very reliable, and amused by the comment about wanting to make the new PC last 10 years – I would be 91 by then, and even if still alive, probably in a care home. This will in all probability be my last computer. The following two sentences very helpful.

@ Fred. a. Isn’t a separate hard drive for the OS, rather than a partition, over the top unless getting a SSD for the OS? They seem to be both expensive and short-lived.

I’ve become more or less convinced by the argument for keeping data on a separate partition, and will probably be back later to ask how one overcomes Windows habit of putting My docs, pictures, etc all on the one drive. Furthermore, modern PCs seem to come with unnecessarily huge hard drives – my 120 GB drive is still half empty, despite containing 15 years of files I wish to keep, and a few GBs of photos.

b. Are there CPUs with more than 4 cores? Not that I’m likely to need that, the wife’s desktop and laptop, with dual cores, don’t appear particularly quicker than my single core XP, bearing in mind its age. Perhaps if I ever discover how to watch live relays via the web on our smart TV it would improve the stabillty of the picture.

@ Clint. Thanks for the links, which will take me weeks to wade through, especially as much of it is incomprehensible to me.

So I’ll see if a quad core i5 or i7 CPU is affordable, and go for 6GB of RAM, as there seem to be few 32 bit systems available now. Is there any real advantage in 64 bit other than being able to use more RAM?
Presumabaly modern PCs still have room to add RAM.

Incidentally, I saw one tower advertised as half the normal size. I assume that will make doing anything inside the case much more difficult, due to lack of space.

Again my thanks,

George

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@ Fred. a. Isn’t a separate hard drive for the OS, rather than a partition, over the top unless getting a SSD for the OS? They seem to be both expensive and short-lived.

I’ve become more or less convinced by the argument for keeping data on a separate partition, and will probably be back later to ask how one overcomes Windows habit of putting My docs, pictures, etc all on the one drive. Furthermore, modern PCs seem to come with unnecessarily huge hard drives – my 120 GB drive is still half empty, despite containing 15 years of files I wish to keep, and a few GBs of photos.

George,

Hello.. A “separate partition” means that all your Data and the OS are all on one HD, it’s just divided up into individual segments.. My suggestion is that the OS should be on a small HD SSD and the DATA on a large storage type HD …HD’s are not expensive anymore.. HD’s have a good track record for “life span” and reliability…. SSD’s have come along way also.. We have a “Notebook” with a 22GB SSD for the OS and a 500 GB HD for DATA.. For now my other PC’s (desktops) are all “plain Jane” HD’s If you use just one HD or SSD if it goes “belly up” you loose everything Data and OS… Hope this is some help:cheers: Regards Fred

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If you use just one HD or SSD if it goes “belly up” you loose everything Data and OS… Hope this is some help:cheers: Regards Fred

Oh really?! Have you heard of imaging :p?

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Oh really?! Have you heard of imaging

Rui,

My point was that the “DATA” HD ( non OS) is almost always much larger and less stressed ( used for storage) than the OS HD and not as likely to go “Belly Up” Most would agree that it makes much more sense to save both “Images” and “Data” off your OS (Including Imaging software People) Than to have your Images Data Pictures etc. saved on your main OS HD. Oh really?! Have you heard of common sense?… Regards Fred

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Oh really?! Have you heard of imaging

Rui,

My point was that the “DATA” HD ( non OS) is almost always much larger and less stressed ( used for storage) than the OS HD and not as likely to go “Belly Up” Most would agree that it makes much more sense to save both “Images” and “Data” off your OS (Including Imaging software People) Than to have your Images Data Pictures etc. saved on your main OS HD. Oh really?! Have you heard of common sense?… Regards Fred

Common sense in what relates to technology takes many variants. It really depends on what you use your system for, which, in some cases, means a lot of stress, with web servers, database servers, multiple compilers, etc. Also, in some scenarios, it’s quite hard to tell an app that it should get its data from where you want it.

Regardless of that, the implied idea that you would lose information from any disk, SSD, hybrid or HDD is a wrong one. The issue is not how much data you lose, but making sure you don’t lose any data at all, no matter how many disks you have.

Both my laptops are SSD only now. If I could justify the cost, I would replace my desktop HDD (500 GB) by a 480 GB SSD. Cost will come down. When it does, my only HDDs will be external (or internal), but used for backup only.

I will also keep using a single partition per drive. With SSDs and fast USB 3 drives, every backup op takes less than an hour. It’s just not worth the hassle of multiple partitioning your disks and configuring the OS to deal with it.

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Common sense in what relates to technology takes many variants. It really depends on what you use your system for, which, in some cases, means a lot of stress, with web servers, database servers, multiple compilers, etc. Also, in some scenarios, it’s quite hard to tell an app that it should get its data from where you want it.

Regardless of that, the implied idea that you would lose information from any disk, SSD, hybrid or HDD is a wrong. The issue is not how much data you lose, but making sure you don’t lose any data at all, no matter how many disks you have.

Both my laptops are SSD only now. If I could justify the cost, I would replace my desktop HDD (500 GB) by a 480 GB SSD. Cost will come down. When it does, my only HDDs will be external (or internal), but used for backup only.

I will also keep using a single partition per drive. With SSDs and fast USB 3 drives, every backup op takes less than an hour. It’s just not worth the hassle of multiple partitioning your disks and configuring the OS to deal with it.

Rui,

Hello…The “OP” (George) asked for adviseopinions about “Desktop PC’s ” I gave him my 2¢ … He then asked a followup question (TO ME) I obliged him, and gave “my opinion” …I don’t recall the OP asking for your “Opinion” about my “Opinion” …. (With your “cheeky obnoxious comment”) Besides being in violation of rule #3 …the thread is about PC’s …not Imaging …Different topic. If you want to start a thread about the “joy” of you’re particular “Imaging paradigm” ..get after it and don’t let me get in the way of your success and happiness ….:cheers: Regards Fred

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Rui,

Hello…The “OP” (George) asked for adviseopinions about “Desktop PC’s ” I gave him my 2¢ … He then asked a followup question (TO ME) I obliged him, and gave “my opinion” …I don’t recall the OP asking for your “Opinion” about my “Opinion” …. (With your “cheeky obnoxious comment”) Besides being in violation of rule #3 …the thread is about PC’s …not Imaging …Different topic. If you want to start a thread about the “joy” of you’re particular “Imaging paradigm” ..get after it and don’t let me get in the way of your success and happiness ….:cheers: Regards Fred

I am just annoyed when I see technically baseless advice, Fred, it’s nothing personal. Technically baseless advice, in “my cheeky obnoxious opinion”, of course. What I really wanted to say was that the OP is totally free to ignore your technically baseless advice. All he needs is to follow a decent imaging routine and he will lose nothing.

You know Fred, when people lack sensible arguments to back their opinions, they do this that you did here. It defines you way better than I whatever I could have said. Thanks for that.

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I am just annoyed when I see technically baseless advice, Fred, it’s nothing personal. Technically baseless advice, in “my cheeky obnoxious opinion”, of course. What I really wanted to say was that the OP is totally free to ignore your technically baseless advice. All he needs is to follow a decent imaging routine and he will lose nothing.

You know Fred, when people lack sensible arguments to back their opinions, they do this that you did here. It defines you way better than I whatever I could have said. Thanks for that.

Rui,
First off “opinions” are just that… Mine is no more correct than yours … There is nothing “technically” Incorrect or “baseless” about recommending to someone who is considering purchasing a new “Desktop” to think about having two Hard Drives …One for the OS and one for DATA ( personal , Pictures , Image’s etc.)… Many loungers do this in various ways … I was offering the OP ( George) my experience …to say it’s “technically baseless” …well your way out of line… I might suggest that you go and have a “nice lie down” :cheers: Regards Fred

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Rui,
First off “opinions” are just that… Mine is no more correct than yours … There is nothing “technically” Incorrect or “baseless” about recommending to someone who is considering purchasing a new “Desktop” to think about having two Hard Drives …One for the OS and one for DATA ( personal , Pictures , Image’s etc.)… Many loungers do this in various ways … I was offering the OP ( George) my experience …to say it’s “technically baseless” …well your way out of line… I might suggest that you go and have a “nice lie down” :cheers: Regards Fred

It is baseless and it is contradictory with the advice you normally give about imaging, but I guess not everyone cares about consistency in what they say. With a sensible imaging regimen, no data will be lost, regardless of how many disks you have. If the disks go “belly up”, to use your colorful language, images will make sure you lose nothing. So, admitting the OP would use imaging (and I am not even imaging you not advising that), your statement “if you use just one HD or SSD if it goes “belly up” you loose everything Data and OS” makes no sense at all, sorry to say it.

There are valid reasons for advising the use of multiple disks or multiple partitions (as there are for not using them), but I cannot imagine anyone advising that and not advising a sound backup strategy, which actually should include more than imaging. The reason you gave is thus technically baseless.

I truly regret that anyone, but especially a moderator, should resort to personal attacks, in violation of the Lounge rules, when their opinions are challenged on technical grounds alone. As I said, Fred, it defines you, and your manners, better than I could ever do. Thanks for that.

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After reading the responses, something I have found wasn’t discussed. If you buy a 64 bit system to get more RAM, some older programs that ran in Win 98 or before will not run on 64 bit systems. If you find you have programs you have used in the past that won’t run even in compatability mode on a 64 bit system, you can use Oracle’s free Virtual Box to setup a virtual hard drive, load your old operating system on it and then run your old programs from within the Virtual Box. With the big hard drives these days, the Virtual Box doesn’t really cause any problems. I gave mine 60 gig of hard space for use with no problems.

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Multiple core CPUs, for normal apps, will ensure better multitasking, that’s all. Won’t be faster, pure performance wise, but they may be able to perform more tasks at the same time.

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Yes, I have several working rigs at the ripe old age of 9 and 10 years and can attest that the only thing they are really missing, allowing for the mismatch in component speed improvements of course, is multitasking. They still run Photoshop and high end consumer video editing programs and video rendering jobs just fine; but, only one at a time. Things that don’t hog the processor like email and browsing and word processing can “multitask” no problemo even though the media we browse through is significantly “richer” and more demanding than it was 10 years ago.

The one other thing that 64-bit allows that 32-bit does not is native addressing and use of hard drives in excess of 2.19 terabytes. Since all your stuff fits comfortably in 120 gigs, you’re not likely to need that.

I can and can’t attest to the durability of Dell systems because they are all 4-8 years old and running fine. If quality has not been maintained in the last 4 years or so, I wouldn’t know about it. 🙂

Smaller cases are a trade off, fewer options for modification than a big case but I really like the smaller cases with a cool and quiet core two duo processor in it. My large cases with big video cards in them tend to make a lot more noise (although if one doesn’t take advantage of the greater capacity of a large case, it can be whisper-quiet as well) and external portable backup drives are so small and relatively inexpensive these days, they compliment a smaller case quite nicely.

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Before you get too caught up with things like shared graphics, amount of RAM, or number of cores you should answer this question in the most truthful way you can: What do I want to do with the computer? Only then can you determine what features are important.

If all you plan to do is internet surfing, email, normal word processing, uncomplicated spreadsheets, tracking your finances, you do NOT need to worry about any of these things. Most modern systems will have enough horsepower to do all these tasks.

Why buy a Ferrari just to drive around town?

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Intel’s Core i3 and Core i5 both have good “shared” integrated graphics chip built-in to the cpu. You really don’t need a separate graphics/video card these days unless you plan on playing graphics-intensive 3D games like Call of Duty, Crysis 3, etc. Intel’s HD2000 graphics chip (or any higher number) will handle all normal duties including basic games, spreadsheets, full HD video or movies, and so on. Simply increase the amount of RAM memory to 6GB or 8GB and you will always have plenty. RAM is currently not terribly expensive.

We have a 2 year-old Core i3 system and the integrated graphics work great. Newer versions are even better! Core i5 is a little bit better still. Core i5 quad-core cpu is great if you want to run several programs/apps at the same time and have all of them run pretty fast. Short of that, a Core i3 is absolutely fine for fast everyday computing.

Here’s a thought. Use the money saved from not buying a separate graphics card (or from choosing Core i3 instead of Core i5) and put the money towards a 120GB SSD. Using an SSD in place of a regular hard drive is a significant improvement in overall performance of your computer. We bought a 96GB Kingston SSD (the old V+100 model) about two or three years ago. We installed it in an Intel dual-core system that’s five years old. Last year our neighbor bought a brand new Core i-5 system with a 750GB regular hard drive and 6GB of RAM. We both use Windows 7. Our 5 year-old sytem with SSD does everything faster than his. There’s no lag. Everything feels quick & snappy. We now have 5 SSDs and they are all reliable and fast. After experiencing that at our house the neighbor ran down to the big office supply store and bought himself an SSD right away. Now his computer is faster than any of ours … arrgh!

Certain brands of SSD have high reputations for reliability. These include Intel, Sandisk, Kingston, Crucial and Samsung. Some even have a 5-year warranty (in the USA). Once you use one there’s no going back …..

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I’d stick with a Dell system if that is what you are comfortable with.
I have owned long lasting and decent performing Dell systems previously. (mid to higher range)

As for post #8, he’s probably right, most typical system’s will suit most average users.
Just be cognizant of your need vs hardware situation.

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nate01pa asked a reasonable question which doesn’t seem to have been answered. What is the PC to be used for? For example, if it’s for Facebook/Twitter/email/browsing then a tablet would do the job admirably. Even if it’s a bit of Word doc writing these would be OK (dependent on how much). And if it’s the extra things nate01pa suggested then a simple PC (or laptop) would do.

But if it’s heavy gaming or large photo manipulation, then that’s a different ballgame.

So George, what do you want it for?
:;):

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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nate01pa asked a reasonable question which doesn’t seem to have been answered. What is the PC to be used for? For example, if it’s for Facebook/Twitter/email/browsing then a tablet would do the job admirably. Even if it’s a bit of Word doc writing these would be OK (dependent on how much). And if it’s the extra things nate01pa suggested then a simple PC (or laptop) would do.

But if it’s heavy gaming or large photo manipulation, then that’s a different ballgame.

So George, what do you want it for?
:;):

Nate01pa hit the nail on the head as to my usage, i.e. internet surfing, email, normal word processing, uncomplicated spreadsheets, tracking my finances, and the surfing is mostly to sites I regularly visit to obtain news or info I’m looking for. I never use Facebook or Twitter.

So my needs are fairly basic, but on two, or perhaps three occasions, when I sought help from the lounge, possible remedies were suggested that I was unable to follow up. On the first occasion overheating was suggested as a possible cause of the problem, but when I downloaded a temperature gauge the reading was too high to be credible – the case would have been hot – and another gauge came up with another unlikely reading, but far distant from the first. I was then told that Dell PCs are poorly equipped with the required sensors. On the other occasion(s) it was something other than temp that could not be followed up.

Two or three such incidents in almost four years as a lounger is perhaps not excessive, but it would be nice to have a machine better equipped in this respect, provided it didn’t involve buying something far more expensive than I need. On the other hand, I wish to avoid getting something that will cause endless trouble, or die within a year.

Hence my request for suggestions as to reliable manufacturers, with the idea of buying something towards the lower end of their range. Perhaps it would have been better to ask for brands to avoid. I see quite a few Lenova machines in the shops, which are reasonably priced, but I’ve never heard of them, so have no idea if they are any good.

I may well take Clint’s advice and get another Dell, as my desktop died this morning, taking at least 50 unread emails with it. Making a choice is thus rather urgent as relying on this laptop is driving me up the wall. I enter a lot of numbers, and having the numerals spread out along the top of the keyboard, instead of 3 x 3 grouped together is a pain, especially having to move to the bottom to enter the decimal point each time. And Thunderbird is a poor replacement for OE, very badly laid out – something else must be found for the new PC. And tablets are worse, even with a keyboard, and there is no version of Sharescope for tablet use.

PS. I don’t go in for gaming, and although possessing a photo editing programme have never used it, as there are always other things to do. Wish I could survive on less than 4 – 5 hours sleep per night.

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Dear Georgelee:

I want to second the advice of several others. The first question to ask is, “What will I be doing with this machine?” Have this conversation with yourself before worrying about specifications. We hava all seen those jacked-up monster 4-wheel trucks guys own just in case they want to… (to what, winch themselves up Everest?). Similarly, it would be easy for you to overbuy. (After all, you never know whether you might want to start designing spacecraft in your living room.) I am assuming that, at 81, you aren’t going to take up hideous hardcore gaming, or 3-D finite element aircraft design torture testing. You sound like an average home user: about the most “strenuous” thing you are likely to do is consume music and video.

This places you in the privileged position of being able to buy, and be perfectly happy with, a system that is well behind the so-called “bleeding edge” of performance. Fortunately for you, the “monster truck” contingent is well represented among computer owners. Many are almost (almost??) compulsive about having the new “Whiz-bang 10 Million,” with 7.8 cores and Origami graphics. Somebody like that may be anxious to sell you his old system. Or one of the local shops may have a trade-in available.

A perfectly adequate internal HDD can be had cheaply, these days, which allows you to just throw away the previous owner’s problems and start fresh with a new OS on a clean drive (Ask a teenager or college student. Buy them a pizza.). I suggest buying an external USB drive. Copy your precious personal data from your old (internal) hard drive, make a back-up copy of your wife’s stuff, while you are at it, and “move” the data to your new system simply by moving the USB plug to your new system. If you catch the gaming bug, you can always upgrade by repeating the process, assuming you are willing to undertake the arduous task of moving the external drive’s USB plug to the new system.

Before moving to a new operating system, by the way, you might want to take it for a spin (on somebody’s existing machine). You may find that they have “improved the user experience” so much that you find yourself lost and have difficulty performing familiar common tasks.

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Before moving to a new operating system, by the way, you might want to take it for a spin (on somebody’s existing machine). You may find that they have “improved the user experience” so much that you find yourself lost and have difficulty performing familiar common tasks.

That’s covered, as I’ve had Win8 on this laptop since the end of January.

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I would worry more about the operating system and other factors instead of the box.

I have had a dell for a long time. sometimes annoying, but basically works and was not that expensive.

Not sure what you have, but here locally we can buy refurb computers cheap as they come off rental agreements by biz.

If you buy new I would make sure that there are NO passwords or other added krapp by the maker which is nothing but annoyance and do not help you at all. Also have them remove all the adware and do a fresh install of the opsys and give you the original disks so you can reinstall again if you ever need to do it.

max the ram and get a humongous external usb hd to keep stuff on so it doesnt fill up the C drive with clutter. move anything you want to keep from c as it accumulates and delete the rest.

forget the chip. buy the lowest cost that meets your needs.

if you need something special, say like for music production, then buy a pc that is tuned for that ap with all the interfering stuff deleted so for example it cant mess up your recording by starting to autoindex in the middle of using it for the ap.

for web use i just buy the cheapest smallest pc that can surf and dont use it for anything else.
all other pcs stay off the net and i rip out the antivirus and other software that just slows them down as i dont need them if i never go on the net with them.

My desktop PC is on its last legs and needs replacing – but with what?

Before buying my first PC I attended a half-day introduction to computers and asked which brand they would recommend. They were using Dell, and said it was very reliable, so I’ve stuck with Dell ever since.

However, aware that the sensors and diagnostic tools are rather poor on Dell machines, I am considering a change, but have no idea what to buy. There only appear to be 2 computer magazines in the UK now – I had a look through one but the reviews and ads were all about laptops and tablets, apart from one high-end machine out of my price range, and the other was in a sealed wrapper, so no help there.

I understand that HP is similar to Dell in being underequipped, so can rule that out, Sony has been strongly recommended by a neighbour, but is quite pricey, which leaves Acer, Asus, Compaq, Lenova and Samsung. The latter has a good reputation in other fields, and is somewhat cheaper that Sony, it might just come within my means. I know nothing about the reliability of the others – so would welcome suggestions.

On the other hand, I have been fairly lucky with Dell. My first PC (Win 95, then 98) lasted 5 years until stolen when the house was burgled, replaced by the current XP 10 yrs and two months ago. My wife has a 6yr old Vista desktop and a 4yr old laptop now running Win 8. So 4 machines, 25 yrs of use and never had a failed hard drive. In fact the only mechanical problem in all that time was a graphics card failure last month on the wife’s desktop, which only cost us £30 when the repair shop said if we don’t use it for games we could just use the built in graphics. The wife hasn’t noticed any difference in performance.

A few other points I need to know when making my choice:
I believe 4GB RAM is the minimum with Win 8, and preferably more – correct?.
What are shared graphics?
I don’t understand how Intel i3, i5 etc compare with the old classification, but assume i5 is faster then i3.
Finally, being technically illiterate where computers are concerned, perhaps I don’t need better sensors, etc. It’s just irritating when I bring my problems to the lounge and am unable to answer some of the questions I’m asked.

Many thanks for any guidance offered,

George

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Fred, you stated the following “If you use just one HD or SSD if it goes “belly up” you loose everything Data and OS… Hope this is some help Regards Fred”. Had you said “If you use just one HD or SSD if it goes “belly up” you loose everything Data and OS, unless you have a good backup regime… Hope this is some help Regards Fred.” I’m sure Rui would have not commented. I was taken aback by your statement – after all, as more than one person has said, if it’s only in one place it’s not backed up.

I say this as this 3 star lounger doesn’t want to see the big guys having a fight, which won’t help the OP or indeed the rest of us. I’ll leave now – :flee:

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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As stated by others, the OP asked about what hardware, not what apps or functionality to purloin. That makes the Admin wrong injecting that the loss does not occur when the HD(s) does (do) fail out if one imaged it. The HD will have to replaced and restored, regardless of the original restore hardware chosen. That data, you know, the 1’s and 0’s, are no longer accessible and will have to be replaced – it does not truly matter how that is accomplished within this thread so let’s not quibble about imaging herein, OK? I use two tape libraries as well as imaging of the O/S on 15K SCSI externals simply because i believe in having many options that are fast as possible and have higher reliability.

The point the SuperM was trying to make is simple – segregation onto separate HD’s is usually a good thing for many reasons, such as:

1) If SCSI et al, both OS and DATA HD’s can be accessed at the same time saving interrupt time.
2) OS data gets read more often than DATA bits forgiving the running background Apps such as real time A/V, usually, and this relates to how fast the sectors wear out on each HD unless a Defrag operation moves it around the tracks ofter enough to minimize repeated hits on the same tracks.
3) If your needs are OS centric it would make more sense to spend more on a faster OS HD than a data bin HD, and / or the other way round. Depends on what the machine is used for.
4) Oh, I forgot, Win 8 is being discussed so all the benefits of real hardware optimization are moot.

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As stated by others, the OP asked about what hardware, not what apps or functionality to purloin. That makes the Admin wrong injecting that the loss does not occur when the HD(s) does (do) fail out if one imaged it. The HD will have to replaced and restored, regardless of the original restore hardware chosen. That data, you know, the 1’s and 0’s, are no longer accessible and will have to be replaced – it does not truly matter how that is accomplished within this thread so let’s not quibble about imaging herein, OK? I use two tape libraries as well as imaging of the O/S on 15K SCSI externals simply because i believe in having many options that are fast as possible and have higher reliability.

The point the SuperM was trying to make is simple – segregation onto separate HD’s is usually a good thing for many reasons, such as:

1) If SCSI et al, both OS and DATA HD’s can be accessed at the same time saving interrupt time.
2) OS data gets read more often than DATA bits forgiving the running background Apps such as real time A/V, usually, and this relates to how fast the sectors wear out on each HD unless a Defrag operation moves it around the tracks ofter enough to minimize repeated hits on the same tracks.
3) If your needs are OS centric it would make more sense to spend more on a faster OS HD than a data bin HD, and / or the other way round. Depends on what the machine is used for.
4) Oh, I forgot, Win 8 is being discussed so all the benefits of real hardware optimization are moot.

No, what the SuperModerator stated as a reason to use two disks was the prevention of data loss if one of the disks went “belly up”. I simply stated that is not a technically sound reason, because data loss can be prevented through other means. So I disagree with that as a reason for using two disks.

There are multiple valid reasons for using two or more disks. The one I find more compelling, when it applies, is the easiness of restoring just the OS or just the data. This doesn’t apply all the time, though but it could be a valid reason. It’s not a reason for me to do it, but it will be for some people.
There are other reasons that also apply for the specific scenario of using a SSD and an HD. For example, a valid reason would be to get a noticeable performance improvement over a HD only approach, while not breaking the bank, going with a smaller SSD for OS and an HD for other data. I personally don’t really see a compelling reason for this, unless you have huge amounts of data, that would make a larger SSD a not so economical way of solving the problem. SSDs, in my opinion, are becoming better options than SCSI, as they beat them performance wise, capacities are increasing and prices are decreasing.

So, I have no issues recognizing that a scenario with two or more disks may be a good choice for some people. Denying that was not the point. I just don’t think data loss, as pointed out by the Supermoderator, is such a use case, because, these days, with the software and hardware solutions available, there is simply no reason for data loss and such loss can be avoided whether you use one, two or ten disks. This was my simple point.

The advice given here should be technically sound. I don’t think, per the reasons explained, that this was the case, for that particular statement, which I took the care to highlight and make clear that it was the statement my comment was addressing. I commented in a way that would allow the Supermoderator to clarify his statement. He chose a personal attack instead. The whole thing is pretty clear to me.

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Georgelee:

As you can see, for having a firefight, it doesn’t hurt to have the teesiest “system” around.

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The one I find more compelling, when it applies, is the easiness of restoring just the OS or just the data

I don’t find that a compelling reason. For corruption cases other than disk failure, the same thing can be accomplished via separate partitions on a single disk. The disk failure case occurs so infrequently that the extra hour (usually more like a half hour) to restore both data and the OS images is a don’t care.

Jerry

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I regret having queried Fred’s use of separate hard drives for OS and data, as it has led to a dispute between two people who have often helped me in the past, and who I admire greatly.

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georgelee,

Now that you’ve clarified what you’ll be using the computer for we can offer clear suggestions. This weekend Dell.com website has a $299 special on a PC that should do everything you want. It’s called Inspiron 660s. here’s a link: http://www.dell.com/us/p/deals#!popular-desktop-deals

The cpu (processor) is an Intel Pentium 3.0GHz dual-core and it has quick & snappy performance. In fact, it’s a bit faster performing than our 2 year-old Core i3 we use at home.

You could spend an extra $100 and get the latest Core i3 version from Dell but, again, i would urge you instead to spend $80 – $100 on an SSD as it will make a significant, worthwhile improvement to whatever PC you buy.

Based on your intended usage the 4GB of RAM memory included with the Dell PCs should be plenty.

Regarding Lenovo, they are a very large Chinese manufacturer who bought IBM’s computer-making business a few years ago. We have a couple of friends with Lenovo PCs and they are very happy with them, but i’ve never used one myself.

In our geographic region we have big chain stores (BestBuy and Staples and Office Depot) who offer clearance/closeout pricing on various brand name PCs. You might find a similar bargain there.

Good luck.

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Now that we/you know what you use your computer for, start coming up with a budget.

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Now that we/you know what you use your computer for, start coming up with a budget.

Well, £600 would be reasonable, which equates to about $600 in the computing world, as we always get ripped off on the exchange rate. At least this applies to software, especially from MS.

As I only need a fairly basic machine, and apparently all makes are equally reliable, there should be no lack of choice. I would have liked something with better quality heat sensors, etc needing all the help possible when encountering problems, but I gather these are only available on top of the range models.

UPDATE
Friday I discovered that the PC is still functioning, it’s the monitor that’s died, and there is no point in buying a new monitor on its own, with the tower needing to be replaced by April at the latest.

Yesterday it was possible to borrow my wife’s monitor for most of the day and deal with the accumulated emails. Then I backed up the data, to replace my 3 week old back-up, and installed it on the laptop so as to be able to continue as normal until I get the replacement desktop.

Unfortunately, verifying the new data on the laptop produced a series of errors, the worst being many emails having lost attachments – Thunderbird doesn’t seem to work well with OE emails – and there is a problem playing music. The first track tried was OK, but then they all failed, opening something called X Box, asking me to sign in, and stating the necessary ap could be obtained from the MS store, but I am not going to get a MS login. If unable to sort these out I’ll start a new thread.

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Your looking at the low end range with that budget, irregardless of conversion.
If that satisfies your needs, go for it. Otherwise save at least 1000 dollars.

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Clint,
Hi there. This is your friendly neighborhood Grammar Police reminding you that irrigardless ain’t a reel wurd as it contanes an uncorrect letter plus too negutive componunts. So don’t let it happun aggin, now, y’hear?

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Corrected, LOL

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🙂

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George:

What I would do if I were you is, I would call Dell (or go on their web site), and I’d get a mid-level desktop or laptop PC. (I definitely prefer desktop, unless I must have portability.)

I would get Windows 8 – 64 bit, and I’d get 4 GB of RAM, with room to expand to more in the future. (If it has more than 4 GB of RAM, that’s ok.)

I’d get at least a 2 TB hard drive.

If you get the above described computer, you will be set for a long time.

Also, if, in the future, you need technical (repair) info about your computer, it will all be available on the Dell website.

In this way, you’re keeping it simple, yet you’re doing good.

Make sure that you install a name-brand anti-malware software package. I use Trend Micro, and I’m really happy with it.

Also, you’ll probably want one of the start menu / start button add-ins. (I use StartIsBack, but there are others.) In this way, you have almost no learning curve for Windows 8.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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George:

What I would do if I were you is, I would call Dell (or go on their web site), and I’d get a mid-level desktop or laptop PC. (I definitely prefer desktop, unless I must have portability.)

I would get Windows 8 – 64 bit, and I’d get 4 GB of RAM, with room to expand to more in the future. (If it has more than 4 GB of RAM, that’s ok.)

Still undecided about 64 bit, it might not work with some of my programmes, and the only advantage appears to be that it enables the use of more than 4 GB of Ram, which in my case is almost overkill.

I must disagree about the Dell website for technical assistance, and their email help is far inferior to the Lounge. But thanks for the rest of your advice, espec. regards buying Dell.

George

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Still undecided about 64 bit, it might not work with some of my programmes, and the only advantage appears to be that it enables the use of more than 4 GB of Ram, which in my case is almost overkill.

I must disagree about the Dell website for technical assistance, and their email help is far inferior to the Lounge. But thanks for the rest of your advice, espec. regards buying Dell.

George

George,

The reason I am recommending 64-bit Windows is so that you will be set for a long time. The only reason you would want to go with 32-bit is for backward compatibility, that is, if you have essential devices or software which will not run in a 64-bit environment. But by going with 32-bit, you are freezing yourself at this level, because everything is moving in the 64-bit direction.

(As a disclaimer, I have 32-bit Windows 8, because I am a dinosaur and am paranoid about backward compatibility; also, I have an eMachines computer which takes a maximum of 2 GB of memory.)

As far as support on the Dell website, if you go to support.dell.com and enter your service tag number, you will find very complete technical information about your computer. This is indispensable if, six years from now, you need to get new memory, a new video card, or something else, and you need to know what is compatible with your computer.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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George,

The reason I am recommending 64-bit Windows is so that you will be set for a long time.

As far as support on the Dell website, if you go to support.dell.com and enter your service tag number, you will find very complete technical information about your computer. This is indispensable if, six years from now, you need to get new memory, a new video card, or something else, and you need to know what is compatible with your computer.

Jim,
I’m probably a dinosaur myself, and doubt that I have a long time left, but having ascertained that my only crucial programme has a 64 bit version I might as well go with that.

Regarding your last paragraph, I assume this applies to all makes, not just Dell.

The last thing to decide is how large a monitor to get. The 22″ screens look really impressive, but are probably a tad too big for my 38.5″ x 19.5″ computer desk. The scanner (19″ x 10″ would oprobably fit behind the monitor and the 10 socket surge protector beside the screen in place of the scanner, and still leave space for the phone. The disadvantage is having to get up every I want to use the scanner or any of the docs piled on lot of it. Must revisit a store and measure just how much desk space a 22″ monitor would occupy. Will most probably settle for 20″.
George

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Jim,

The last thing to decide is how large a monitor to get. The 22″ screens look really impressive, but are probably a tad too big for my 38.5″ x 19.5″ computer desk. The scanner (19″ x 10″ would oprobably fit behind the monitor and the 10 socket surge protector beside the screen in place of the scanner, and still leave space for the phone. The disadvantage is having to get up every I want to use the scanner or any of the docs piled on lot of it. Must revisit a store and measure just how much desk space a 22″ monitor would occupy. Will most probably settle for 20″.
George

That’s the main interface between you and your computer and therefore the number one factor in user experience; I wouldn’t let the desk decide how big it should be. Get a little side cart on wheels or something for extras that don’t fit, just don’t skimp on the monitor of all things.

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That’s the main interface between you and your computer and therefore the number one factor in user experience; I wouldn’t let the desk decide how big it should be. Get a little side cart on wheels or something for extras that don’t fit, just don’t skimp on the monitor of all things.

You haven’t seen my study, built as the third bedroom, and intended as a nursery. In fact was a show house for the estate, and the walls are still decorated with dwarves and animals.

Basically there is no space for anything else. The two side walls are almost entirely hidden behind bookcases, My desk faces the window and occupies the third side, and the computer desk, behind my back, was the largest that would fit in and allow the door to be opened.

My main gripe about the laptop – apart from the keyboard – was the wasted space with the modern wide screens, but now the desktop is out of action I have had to use this, and have discovered that often the text can be extended to fill most of the space, with the result that even this 15” screen is fairly reasonable, so a 20” model should be OK. It would be larger than anything I ‘ve ever used.

@ mrjimphelps. Thanks for the tip about drivers, even though my success with installing them has been mixed.

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Jim,
I’m probably a dinosaur myself, and doubt that I have a long time left, but having ascertained that my only crucial programme has a 64 bit version I might as well go with that.

Regarding your last paragraph, I assume this applies to all makes, not just Dell.

The last thing to decide is how large a monitor to get. The 22″ screens look really impressive, but are probably a tad too big for my 38.5″ x 19.5″ computer desk. The scanner (19″ x 10″ would oprobably fit behind the monitor and the 10 socket surge protector beside the screen in place of the scanner, and still leave space for the phone. The disadvantage is having to get up every I want to use the scanner or any of the docs piled on lot of it. Must revisit a store and measure just how much desk space a 22″ monitor would occupy. Will most probably settle for 20″.
George

Dell is the best that I have found in terms of maintaining your computer’s technical info on their website for a very long time.

Of course, with any computer, you could download and save it all yourself, or print it out and stick it in a file folder. But not too many people go to all that trouble.

Drivers for everything should also be downloaded and saved in a few different locations (a CD, your hard drive, etc); but Dell (and others) will have your drivers available for download, usually for a very long time.

Dell also is usually good quality stuff, at a reasonable price.

To see how much room a 22″ monitor will take, go down to your local Office Depot and look at actual monitors. Same for scanners and other equipment.

And by the way, I have found that Office Depot is a good place to purchase computers and peripherals, because not only do they have good prices, but they’ll take something back if it’s bad.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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I’d get at least a 2 TB hard drive.

I wouldn’t worry about the hard drive size for your application George. I have a 500 gig drive on my main desktop that I bought 4 years ago and haven’t come close to filling it up and I probably have more data than you. I rarely run across a full hard drive in the systems I repair.

Jerry

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I wouldn’t worry about the hard drive size for your application George. I have a 500 gig drive on my main desktop that I bought 4 years ago and haven’t come close to filling it up and I probably have more data than you. I rarely run across a full hard drive in the systems I repair.

Jerry

I have a 120 gig drive in my 10 year old desktop, and as I recall only half has been used – including files from the previous Win9x – so I’ll probably settle for less.

What is undecided is should I buy a SSD for the OS? Several loungers have been recommending it, but for my purposes speed is not essential, and I believe in keeping things simple.

George

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but for my purposes speed is not essential
George

George,

I think you answered your own question. :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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What could be simpler than an SSD? No moving parts, thus zero mechanical wear ! Hey, remember when, if we wanted to copy and save something to take with us or give to someone else, we had to put a blank CD in the CD drive and burn the wanted files onto the CD? Then they invented USB flash drives – faster, easier, and little or no mechanical wear. Well, an SSD is like that – only FASTER !!

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I have a 120 gig drive in my 10 year old desktop, and as I recall only half has been used – including files from the previous Win9x – so I’ll probably settle for less.

What is undecided is should I buy a SSD for the OS? Several loungers have been recommending it, but for my purposes speed is not essential, and I believe in keeping things simple.

George

I would agree with RetiredGeek – if there is no need for speed, just keep a single HDD.

Of course, a 120 GB SSD costs £76 from Crucial UK. I would offer the 120GB SSD would the only one you need, considering your usage, plus an external drive, for backup. Getting two drives, in your case, would only add complexity. A single SSD drive would be less complex and would offer the very best performance in all scenarios.

Of course, likely you can’t get such a configuration from Dell and I am not sure how adventurous you feel, as replacing the HDD for an SSD isn’t that hard. Maybe something to consider if, at any future time, you feel you could benefit from a bit more performance :).

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As far as an SSD, my thought is that if you aren’t that worried about speed, you should stick with a traditional hard drive. An SSD, correctly installed and configured, will result in a nice increase in speed. But there can be complications involved in getting everything set up and working correctly.

I myself don’t have an SSD. But the comments I have been reading (and I have read lots of them), indicate that you could be in for some frustrations if you go with an SSD.

I believe that you want to keep things simple; therefore, I recommend that you stick with a traditional hard drive.

I have a traditional hard drive, and I have no complaints.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Ya, the only problem with an SSD is if you have used one. They are addictive. Computer starts faster and programs start faster and documents open faster. Once you are up and running and stuff is open, email checking and browsing the Internet and such, it’s all the same. Also, you’re so far removed from the need for 64-bit (as most folks are) it doesn’t matter either way. I stick to 32-bit myself because I run some XP systems with shared peripherals on them and connecting to them from a 32-bit system is a breeze and the only thing I need more than 4 gigs of RAM for is additional operating systems running in virtual machine on the same computer. Even there though I can fudge it a little on 32-bit systems because I use SSDs and can employ a very fast pagefile.

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Imagine you just got your “learner’s permit” for driving you’ve been driving a car with 5-speed manual transmission and you’ve been pretty happy with it. Then a friend gets in the car with you and notices that the hand brake is partially on. He releases the hand brake and, suddenly, it’s like someone installed the big V8 engine – Z_O_O_O_O_M !! That’s what an SSD is like ….. 😀

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Imagine you just got your “learner’s permit” for driving you’ve been driving a car with 5-speed manual transmission and you’ve been pretty happy with it. Then a friend gets in the car with you and notices that the hand brake is partially on. He releases the hand brake and, suddenly, it’s like someone installed the big V8 engine – Z_O_O_O_O_M !! That’s what an SSD is like ….. 😀

I don’t know … I’m getting up in age. Not sure if I can take all of that speed! :wacko:

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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I don’t know … I’m getting up in age. Not sure if I can take all of that speed! :wacko:

Some SSDs come with seat belts plus an optional pacemaker ….. 😉

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Yeah, I definitely could use a pacemaker! :coffeetime:

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Our strategy has been to watch for that rare occasion when an 80GB or larger SSD is on a Newegg “Shellshocker” deal or a similar deal from Tigerdirect, Amazon, etc. A website called Slickdeals.net lets you sign up for instant alerts when a smokin’ deal is posted on their website. Our first “score” was a 96GB Kingston V+100 SSD complete with mounting bracket, external hard drive case and “cloning” software CD. The upgrade kit made installation very easy. Put the SSD in the little external case and connect the case’s USB cable to the computer; run the cloning software; shut everything off; install SSD in computer case; go into BIOS and designate the new SSD as the first boot drive; save and exit. After that the computer booted up to Windows 7 in about 25 seconds, even though we have a whole bunch of stuff loading at startup. Everything opens/launches much quicker than before – even the internet browser ! Over the next year we bought other SSDs on sale for our second PC and our laptop. Heck, we even bought a couple of 80GB Intel X-25M’s on clearance for $39.99 each and installed Windows 8 on them so we can dual-boot.The only item we spent over $100 on is a Sandisk Extreme 240GB and it’s now installed in my whiz-bang Core i-7 rig. But, really, a 120GB capacity is large enough for many home users, especially if you keep the old hard drive and store your large photo, music or video files on it. No point in letting it go to waste!

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Ya, as long as you don’t have any regrets later. I once put a 47″ HDTV in because it was the largest that would still fit in the display cabinet. It just wan’t right for the viewing distance though and it was like the thorn in the Lion King for me so about 3 months later I built a display shelf in front of the cabinet put in a 55″ and have been friends with the mouse ever since! 😉

If the desk is relatively short so that vertical adjustment is possible, you can get monitors with display arms that extend up to about a foot high. A cat knocked one monitor over once upon a time and broke the stand so I got a nice heavy adjustable one from Monoprice and attached the monitor to that and because the table stand part is flat metal, the whole desk desktop is available (up to about 6 inches high or so) except for 3 inches where the center support pole is.

It was very similar to this model; http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005C2A3VW?psc=1

Ah, found the exact one; http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-105970-Adjustable-Tilting-Monitor/dp/B003L11FUY/ref=pd_sim_op_4

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If you look at the system requirements for Windows 8 (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/system-requirements), 2 GB of RAM is recommended for the 64-bit version. Plus, 1 GB of RAM is being recommended for some antivirus software. So, you can see why some of the previous posts are suggesting at least 6 GB of RAM. Half the RAM may go to the operating system and the antivirus software. Besides allowing for more RAM, the 64-bit version also offers a higher level of security.

The desktop Windows mass market brands, like Dell, HP, etc. tend to have similar rates of reliability, so it’s more a matter of finding one that has what you need, and doesn’t have what you don’t need. One thing I noticed is that some of the mass market models only have a wireless LAN card. If your internet connection is wireless, then that’s not an issue, but if it’s wired, avoid those wireless models unless you want to install a LAN card for a wired connection. Another thing that annoys me about the mass market brands is, unlike years ago, a disc of the operating system is often not included.

Most people purchase mass market brands because that’s what they’re familiar with, but you should also see if there are any local computer shops that do custom builds. They can usually get you closer to exactly what you want and you can usually insist on keeping the OEM disc of the operating system. In London there’s a company called Arbico Computers Limited (http://www.arbico.co.uk) that has good reviews (http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews237831.html and http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/www.arbico.co.uk). You can try their Build Your Own PC web page (https://www.arbico.co.uk/Build-Your-Own-PC-p-1-c-354.html). Selecting AMD Athlon will get you the lowest price. All you have to do is select 8 GB of RAM, USB 3.0 if you want that higher speed, anything else listed that you want, and your operating system. If you want a bit more speed and security for a slightly higher price, select Intel Ivy Bridge.

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If you look at the system requirements for Windows 8 (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/system-requirements), 2 GB of RAM is recommended for the 64-bit version. Plus, 1 GB of RAM is being recommended for some antivirus software. So, you can see why some of the previous posts are suggesting at least 6 GB of RAM. Half the RAM may go to the operating system and the antivirus software. Besides allowing for more RAM, the 64-bit version also offers a higher level of security.

Depends on your usage. I have a 4 gig Windows 8 64 bit laptop that’s running now with AV, 3 Chrome Windows, Skype, Win Patrol, and Everything Search active and I’m only using 1.8 gigs of memory. I think 4 gigs of memory is plenty for the average user. You can always add more later if your memory usage grows.

Jerry

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If you look at the system requirements for Windows 8 (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/system-requirements), 2 GB of RAM is recommended for the 64-bit version. Plus, 1 GB of RAM is being recommended for some antivirus software. So, you can see why some of the previous posts are suggesting at least 6 GB of RAM. Half the RAM may go to the operating system and the antivirus software. Besides allowing for more RAM, the 64-bit version also offers a higher level of security.

Most new PCs have integrated/onboard graphics which “shares” system RAM memory when it’s needed up to 1750MB. This is another good reason to make sure you have plenty of RAM. 6GB is plenty but sometimes it’s easier to buy a 2 x 4GB kit = total 8GB. To be fair, when the onboard graphics uses a lot of RAM it’s usually because of an intensive task, such as playing a 3D game or transcoding video. In those cases you are unlikely to be doing any other RAM-demanding tasks at the same time so it’s not a big issue for most people.

… I noticed is that some of the mass market models only have a wireless LAN card. If your internet connection is wireless, then that’s not an issue, but if it’s wired, avoid those wireless models unless you want to install a LAN card for a wired connection.

Actually, all the ones i’ve come across have a standard network/ethernet connector included. It’s usually built into the motherboard, so it’s not an extra.

Another thing that annoys me about the mass market brands is, unlike years ago, a disc of the operating system is often not included.

That is sooo true! However, they do include an alternative. Many will have a protected/hidden partition which contains the full from-the-factory install of Windows plus included software. You access this “recovery” partition by using the Dell or Gateway, etc. recovery program included on the PC. The other alternative is a popup message which appears the first time you use the computer urging you to create a full system backup image right away plus create a “boot disk” which will allow you to restore that backup image in the event the computer won’t start or if the hard drive is erased.

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One thing I noticed is that some of the mass market models only have a wireless LAN card. If your internet connection is wireless, then that’s not an issue, but if it’s wired, avoid those wireless models unless you want to install a LAN card for a wired connection. Another thing that annoys me about the mass market brands is, unlike years ago, a disc of the operating system is often not included.

Thanks for that, something I must watch out for, which would never have occurred to me. I like to connect my PC to the router which stands beside it, for the added security and to avoid the problems that my wife often has with her wireless connection.

I will look into your link re a purpose built PC, although suspecting it would cost more than I’m prepared to spend.

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Wow, an AV needing 1 GB RAM, that’s way too much. Just checked my real time security apps, Online Armor, 40 MB, Emsisoft AntiMalware, 8 MB!

Sorry, 1 GB is simply crazy.

I would agree with Jerry, 4 GB is the sweet spot for a regular user. A power user may need more, probably 8 GB is a better option.

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RAM recommendations from MS should be disregarded completely.
Any AV software that uses 1GB RAM should be as well, if you can actually find an AV product that uses that amount.

I guess I’m getting a little old here, but I still go out of my way to ensure that I have a genuine OS disk or ISO w/ legit key on hand,
irrigardless of home build or store bought computer. They save money, you get less control.

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I agree that 1 GB of RAM for antivirus software running with Windows 8 64-bit seems excessive, but I read that in an article recently and just took the author’s word for it that 64-bit was some sort of memory hog. I can’t remember where I read that, but I checked a bunch of antivirus software websites today and I think the author mistook system RAM for software RAM because I noticed a few publishers stating 1 GB as the minimum system RAM and none requiring 1 GB as software RAM. So, 4 GB of RAM may be enough for the person who started this thread, depending on what he’s planning to use the computer for.

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So, 4 GB of RAM may be enough for the person who started this thread, depending on what he’s planning to use the computer for.

Yes. Having run my XP desktop for about 9 years with the original 500 MB of RAM, and not noticing a great difference after adding another GB a year or so ago – apart from starting Sharescope no longer bringing anything else to a stop – 4GB should be enough. But that’s only a minor point.

It is irritating that nowadays so many stores in London are only stocking laptops and the so called all-in-one desktops, i.e. large laptops on a stand.

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Yes. Having run my XP desktop for about 9 years with the original 500 MB of RAM, and not noticing a great difference after adding another GB a year or so ago – apart from starting Sharescope no longer bringing anything else to a stop – 4GB should be enough. But that’s only a minor point.

It is irritating that nowadays so many stores in London are only stocking laptops and the so called all-in-one desktops, i.e. large laptops on a stand.

George, it occurs to me that if space is at a minimum for you, you might want to try one of the all-in-one desktops (everything built into the monitor). I personally wouldn’t want one, because I’ll bet they are a lot harder to work on, clean the dust out of, etc; I’ll bet they build up more heat; and parts are more proprietary than on a standard desktop.

You don’t seem like the type who will always be tinkering with your computer, and so this might be something to consider.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Thanks for the suggestion, but space is only restricted on top of the computer table. Underneath there is a compartment for the tower, and a pull-out drawer for the printer, so nothing would be gained by getting an all-in-one, and I have already rejected that idea for the reasons you give, apart from the reference to proprietary parts, which had not occurred to my non technical mind. I don’t open a PC unless necessary, but I do like to have room to work. The XP machine still has an old DVD writer that I was unable to get out, so the leads were just switched to the replacement.

In fact 31.5” x 19.5” is sufficient. A 22” monitor is about 22” wide – at least the one I measured in a store did – and my scanner just over 11”, but I’ve now noticed that the base of the scanner is approx. 2” narrower that the widest part, and in the current set-up the base overlaps the side of the table top by an inch or two. So there should be no problem there. Anything larger than 22” would overwhelm me in my small study. There is only c 40” between my desk and the PC desk behind me, ideal for swivelling round from one to the other, but not to look at an enormous screen.

George

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Underneath there is a compartment for the tower, and a pull-out drawer for the printer

George,

I sure hope that compartment is well ventilated! I’ve seen way to many fancy computer desk setups that had the tower completely enclosed which is just asking for heat related problems. I’ve told more than one customer/friend/relative to drill holes in the backing and leave the door open or remove it. I’m just sayin’ … :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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George,

I sure hope that compartment is well ventilated! I’ve seen way to many fancy computer desk setups that had the tower completely enclosed which is just asking for heat related problems. I’ve told more than one customer/friend/relative to drill holes in the backing and leave the door open or remove it. I’m just sayin’ … :cheers:

Yes, back and front both open, apart from a support bar at the rear above the top of the PC, and there are several inches spare either side of the tower, plus about 8″ at the top. As modern PCs tend to be smaller than previously, there shou;d be no problem there.

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George,

I sure hope that compartment is well ventilated! I’ve seen way to many fancy computer desk setups that had the tower completely enclosed which is just asking for heat related problems. I’ve told more than one customer/friend/relative to drill holes in the backing and leave the door open or remove it. I’m just sayin’ … :cheers:

I’ve seen LOTS of computers with papers, etc., up against the ventilation holes, or the computer standing up on its side to make it a mini-tower WITH THE VENTILATION HOLES ON THE BOTTOM! NO AIR COULD GET IN OR OUT! Lots of users have no clue about these things; and, at the company in question, there was no IT policy addressing this issue, and no one in the IT dept (other than me, best I could tell) seemed to care about it. When I tried to address the issue on individual computers, my boss fussed at me for wasting time.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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I can’t make up my mind what to buy.

Mrjimphelps’ recommendation to keep it simple with just a single traditional hard drive, and that Dell was a reliable brand at a reasonable price was very persuasive. The Dell 660MT fits my requirements with an 3rd generation Intel i3 processor, 4GB RAM and a 500 GB hard drive. There are an amazing 4 USB 2 ports and 4 USB 3, although regrettably the USB 3 ports are all at the back. With a 21.5” LED monitor it costs only £508.00.

That would be my choice, if I had not read post #70 from starvinmarvin. For some reason ‘Go on, georgelee, spoil yourself just this once … ‘ resonated with me more than any of the other exhortations to try a SSD. Perhaps it’s the feeling that I ought to try something different with what will probably be my last PC. None of the stores here in the UK sell PCs with SSD installed, and I gather that doing it oneself is rather tricky to set up. Dell XPS 8700 at £849 without monitor has specifications way beyond my needs – Intel i7, 12GB RAM and a 2TB hard drive, when it has taken me 10 years to fill half of a 120 GB drive. The drive includes a 32GB cache, but when I phoned to ask about it, was informed it is only for finding sites one has previously visited.

So I tried cloudandske’s link to Arbisco, who certainly seem to have good reviews, if all the negative reviews have not been omitted. But again a difficult choice. They offer machine with an Intel i3 4130 Haswell processor,4GB RAM, 60 GB SSD, 500 GB Sata III drive and a 18.5” LED Monitor for £509 plus £25 or £30 for USB3.

On the other hand I’m tempted by another over the top machine with Intel i5, 120 GB SSD and 1000 GB Sata III, none of which I need, but the attraction is 8GB RAM, which might be useful on occasion, and things like the sound- proofed case, better fan and Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro CPU Cooler, which sounds exciting. After adding a monitor, keyboard, mouse and USB3 it would set me back c. £750.

With both these latter PCs there is also the problem of deciding which of the upgrades to add, when I know little or nothing about them. For example, what is the difference between:

1). PCI Express Card with 2 USB 3 ports at £25
2). 2 USB 3 and 2 SATA 3.0 ports at £30
Other than the two extra ports in other words, what is the purpose of a SATA 3.0 port?

Failing an inspired reply here, it will probably be decided by the toss of a coin between SSD and no SSD, and if SSD wins, another spin to decide which of the Arbico PCs to buy. The choices to be made in a consumer society are sometimes overwhelming.

George

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1). PCI Express Card with 2 USB 3 ports at £25
2). 2 USB 3 and 2 SATA 3.0 ports at £30

Aren’t the SATA ports, eSATA ports? I would think they are. Today you can probably still find external drives with eSATA connectors, but they are becoming more rare. It’s much easier to find USB 3.0 drives. Both my desktop and laptop have eSATA ports, which is good since backups are a lot faster when I use my eSATA external drive.

So, in your case, unless you already have an eSATA drive, I don’t see much point in buying a card with such ports. For the home user, as I said, it’s getting very hard to find eSATA drives, which turns those ports a bit useless. If there you haven’t more than one USB drive connected, USB 3.0 will be on par with an eSATA drive, performance wise.

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Aren’t the SATA ports, eSATA ports? I would think they are. Today you can probably still find external drives with eSATA connectors, but they are becoming more rare. It’s much easier to find USB 3.0 drives. Both my desktop and laptop have eSATA ports, which is good since backups are a lot faster when I use my eSATA external drive.

RUI,
You’re probably correct, although the wording on the Arbico site is as quoted. As I’ve decided to buy the Dell 660 MT it’s now irrelevant.

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Yeah, that’s probably just the minimum requirement for a system’s hardware spec.
A 64 bit system is probably a waste for the OP’s intended use, 32 bit would be more fitting.
But due to the goofy marketplace, you’ll see 64 bit being pushed on cheap budget boxes where 32 bit would be better suited.

64 bit computing requires a lot more/larger overhead, the plus being you get to utilize more RAM, but if the app that utilizes it
is coded poorly, it won’t make a lot of difference. Might actually be a hindrance.

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I was looking at Hewlett Packard’s line of what they call “everyday computing” models, and of the four listed, three do not appear to have a wired broadband port. Usually, if there is one, the RJ-45 port will be mentioned somewhere, but I don’t see it. I only see the wireless mentioned. If the 110-210xt model actually has a wired port (if he needs that), then it might be a good choice for him. It’s one of the few mass market computers I’ve seen that has a fairly decent CPU, but doesn’t have a bloated hard drive of 1 TB+.

http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Desktops/HP-110/E6S57AV?HP-110-210xt-Desktop-PC

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I was looking at Hewlett Packard’s line of what they call “everyday computing” models, and of the four listed, three do not appear to have a wired broadband port. Usually, if there is one, the RJ-45 port will be mentioned somewhere, but I don’t see it. I only see the wireless mentioned. If the 110-210xt model actually has a wired port (if he needs that), then it might be a good choice for him. It’s one of the few mass market computers I’ve seen that has a fairly decent CPU, but doesn’t have a bloated hard drive of 1 TB+.

http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Desktops/HP-110/E6S57AV?HP-110-210xt-Desktop-PC

Some components are so common or taken for granted that they don’t bother to mention them. The link you provided also fails to mention how many SATA ports the computer has. Should we conclude that it has none? Or, that it you can only connect one hard drive and one DVD drive? In this particular case i looked at their Quick Start guide for the HP 110-210xt. It shows how to connect the ethernet port and the wireless port. Also among the Support site documentation is a true technical spec which includes mention of the wired LAN port. Screenshot images of both documents are attached.

35341-HP-110-210xt-partial-component-list35342-HP-110-210xt-Ethernet-and-Wireless

i doubt any of us here would feel confident buying a new PC without knowing all of the relevant specs. My point is simply that in their marketing some manufacturers think a full spec is unimportant!

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The last time I shopped for a mass market computer was about 14 years ago when complete specifications were right in front of you on the shopping page. I didn’t realize things had changed so much that you actually might have to leave the shopping page and try to find the details somewhere else on the website. Lesson learned, but what a marketing failure on the part of the manufacturer.

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It used to be the case that laptops came with a built-in wireless adapter and it was an optional extra on desktop PCs. So, whilst an ethernet network port is taken for granted on a desktop model, having built-in wireless is apparently still worth mentioning in the features list. It’s also a given that almost every new desktop PC will have all the necessary basics: a dual-core CPU, a decent size hard drive, enough RAM, HD-quality integrated graphics, some USB ports, and a DVD drive. In my experience, the major brands will always include a reliable power supply which, although not big and beefy, is certainly sufficient to its purpose.

The upshot of this is that any model which is one step up from the brand’s cheapest model is very likely going to suit georgelee’s requirements as he has stated them in this thread. In sheer processing power an Intel Pentium dual-core (SandyBridge or IvyBridge) will beat an AMD dual-core, yet each is good enough if it’s 2.2GHz or faster. At the next step up an Intel Core i3 will beat an AMD quad-core on many tasks (except on 3D gaming graphics). Generally, AMD is the cheaper alternative and leaves some extra cash to put towards – guess what? – an SSD, of course. The SSD will make any new PC noticeably more responsive on almost everything you do, and you can keep the original hard drive for for its spacious storage and for backup. Go on, georgelee, spoil yourself just this once …

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George,

I recently purchased that Dell 8700, or at least a Dell 8700, from Costco.
I immediately did an Image backup using Macrium Reflect to a USB connected HD.
Created the Windows PE boot USB from the Macrium Reflect menu.
Shut the thing down and replaced the HDD with a SDD (128GB Crucial M4) I had on hand and moved the HDD to a secondary position (just changed the SATA cables).
Booted from the USB drive.
Restored the Backup Image using the feature to resize the C: partiton to fit the smaller drive.
Booted up and I was in business.
Then I formatted the HDD and then with a couple of clicks moved my Documents folder to the HDD.
Done.

It may sound like a lot but was really quite easy just take your time. I think you’ll really like the boot speed and program load times you get from the SSD. You don’t need the I-7 processor to get these benefits from the SSD in fact you may notice them more on an I-3. HTH :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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RT,
It’s easy when you know what you’re doing, but I’m just a ham fisted amateur. Isn’t that 32GB SSD cache going to complicate matters?

On top of which, I’d be very reluctant to pay £1000 + for the Dell and a monitor. An added complication is that I would not like to rely on restoring an image, without ever having done so. My only attempt ended in failure. After buying a 2TB WD My Book external drive and installing a free trial of Acronis True Image, I discovered that it is only designed for back ups, not images. Following advice from you or Just Plain Fred –unable to remember which – I wiped all the WD formatting and made an image. This was successful, as I was able to examine individual files on the ext. disc, but when I replaced the hard drive in my PC with a new one, in order to test it would boot, XP was unable to find the ext. drive.

But thanks for the suggestion, if I survive into my late eighties, and a similar situation arises, I’ll know what to do.

George

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George,

I wasn’t suggesting you by the big iron. Only that I don’t think adding an SSD is all that hard if you just take your time and follow the procedure outlined. It should work just fine on the Dell 660 you are looking at. :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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If you would like to add hardware later on to whatever computer you finally decide on, we can certainly assist with that,
provided you give us enough information on your system and it’s specs, case layout etc.
Adding a drive is easy and someone in your position can be walked through the steps.

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If you would like to add hardware later on to whatever computer you finally decide on, we can certainly assist with that, provided you give us enough information on your system and it’s specs, case layout etc.
Adding a drive is easy and someone in your position can be walked through the steps.

Thanks for that, very useful.

Earlier in the thread I was advised that installing and SETTING UP a SSD correctly is pretty difficult, so
limiting myself to a single hard drive would avoid complications. However, your reply, combined with # 79 and 81 has persuaded me to have a go, so I shall be ordering the Dell 660 MT.

A couple of further questions. Will any SSD work with the Intel i3 processor and the 55gb serial ATA drive, or is a specific brand required.

Is it best install at least some of the programmes and run it for a few days to ensure everything is OK before installing the SSD and switching everything round?

Thanks
George

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Thanks for that, very useful.

Earlier in the thread I was advised that installing and SETTING UP a SSD correctly is pretty difficult, so
limiting myself to a single hard drive would avoid complications. However, your reply, combined with # 79 and 81 has persuaded me to have a go, so I shall be ordering the Dell 660 MT.

A couple of further questions. Will any SSD work with the Intel i3 processor and the 55gb serial ATA drive, or is a specific brand required.

Is it best install at least some of the programmes and run it for a few days to ensure everything is OK before installing the SSD and switching everything round?

Thanks
George

Yes, installing some programs and running it for a few days or even several weeks is a good idea. Always be sure the basic system is reliable before you spend time and money to enhance it further! Also, it will give you a good feel for how responsive the system is, which should be good.

Regarding choice of SSD, almost every model will work. The question is which one would suit you best. Consider the following:
1. If possible, choose one which is a “Desktop Upgrade Kit” or words to that effect. This means the box will include the SSD, a bracket and screws to make the SSD fit in a PC case, a SATA connecting cable, and software to help you “clone” your Windows and programs onto the SSD. (The alternative is to install the SSD in the case with double-sided sticky tape – no bracket, buy a cheap SATA cable, and use free EaseUS ToDo backup software to clone Windows onto the SSD. But, the Upgrade Kit has everything included plus full instructions.)
2. Which brand of SSD should you choose? Certain brands have a reputation for reliability and very good support if you need it. In no particular order you can count on Intel, Crucial, Samsung, Kingston, and Sandisk. Actually, most brands are reliable these days (except i still don’t trust OCZ), BUT not all brands offer good support or free software to monitor the SSD health and handle updates if required.
3. What capacity should you buy? Look at how many GBs you are using on your C: drive (Windows). If it’s, say, 60GB – 80GB you might choose a 120GB or 128GB SSD. On the whole, a 240GB or 256GB model would give some room for expansion and hold plenty of programs, photos, videos, etc. Another thing worthknowing is that, after “formatting” the drive, Windows will always report a smaller capacity (example: 120GB = 111GB usable capacity, 240GB = 223GB usable capacity, etc.)
4. Online retailers like Amazon.com and high street chain stores (Curry’s, maybe?) will likely have some good prices on good SSDs between now and Christmas.

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3. What capacity should you buy? Look at how many GBs you are using on your C: drive (Windows). If it’s, say, 60GB – 80GB you might choose a 120GB or 128GB SSD. On the whole, a 240GB or 256GB model would give some room for expansion and hold plenty of programs, photos, videos, etc.

So you suggest having just the one drive, rather than SSD for the OS and HDD for data. Can SSDs be partitioned in the same way as HDD?
Looking at prices I see they are a lot cheaper than I had imagined, but rather confusing as regards which to choose.

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georgelee,
Don’t know where you live exactly, but i bet that one of your neighbor’s kids, or your local computer store, or someone at the local senior center would be happy to install or help you install a simple device such as an SSD. Also, there are numerous how-to videos on Youtube.com detailing the procedure. (And you’ll get a laugh out of the ones where the camera is placed so that the person’s hands or arms totally block your view of what they’re doing!) And, as another poster suggested, we would be delighted to provide detailed step-by-step instructions written in kleer inglich. 😀
Watch this two-minute video to get an idea of the general procedure. Of course, he goes too fast so don’t be intimidated by that … just observe what he does then watch it again. It will probably raise several questions in your mind such as what-the-heck-does-he-mean-about-updating-the-BIOS? Answer: the BIOS is software that controls the computer before Windows boots up, and it does not need updating on a new computer. What’s that little yellow and black wrist strap for? Answer: It prevents you from putting a possibly harmful static electricity spark into the computer, and it costs a few pounds. But, you can just touch the bare metal rear panel of the computer to discharge any static before you begin, no problem. Step 1 is always REMOVE THE POWER CORD FIRST. Anyway, you get the idea. The first time i opened a computer to replace a part i studied how to do it several times and went step-by-step. It’s the only way i felt confident to proceed. And we’ll be happy to assist you in developing said confidence if you so desire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JOxKSkkdMM

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A couple of further questions. Will any SSD work with the Intel i3 processor and the 55gb serial ATA drive, or is a specific brand required.

No specific brand requirements.

Is it best install at least some of the programmes and run it for a few days to ensure everything is OK before installing the SSD and switching everything round?

That’s entirely up to you, but it would be a very good idea to download all the specifications information and case layout schematics from Dell first.
In fact, if that was the box I was deciding to get, I would do so prior to even purchasing it.

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Mmm, no i wasn’t really suggesting that. Using the regular large hard drive that comes with the computer for storing backup images as well as for videos, photos, music, documents, etc. is a good idea. Here’s an example. A store-bought PC comes with, say, a 500GB hard drive. The drive is divided into two or three separate areas called “partitions”. The main area is usually called C: drive and has Windows on it.

(Windows also creates a small 100MB partition for storing certain information about the installation. Never mess with this partition. A third partition may have been created by Dell or whomever as a special area to store a complete backup image of Windows + all included programs. Never mess with this partition, either.)

The C: drive (Windows) will be several hundred GB in capacity. Use Windows Disk Management feature to reduce the size of this partition (Right-click on the C: drive in Disk Management and select “Shrink Volume”.) What size should you make it? If you’re buying a 120GB SSD it will have 111GB of usable space after formatting. Therefore, i suggest that you shrink the C: drive of the original 500GB hard drive down to 110GB. Later, when you copy/clone your Windows setup onto the new SSD it will fit perfectly. This leaves you with somewhere around 300GB of free space on the regular hard drive. Using Windows Disk Management again you can create a new partition in this “unallocated” area and assign to it a Drive Letter way down the alphabet like S: or X:, and a Volume name like Extra Data or My Stuff or other similarly imaginative name! 🙂 In this new partition you can create folders named Photos2, Music2, Documents2, Videos2. Then right-click on each folder and select “include in Library” and choose the similarly-named Library folder in Windows. From then on, you can store data in these folders and that data will be readily available through the Libraries folder in Windows. (By the way, the Libraries folder in Windows 7 and 8 is the updated version of My Documents in Windows XP.) So, you’ll have 111GB of SSD space for Windows plus whatever programs & games you install, plus you’ll have hundreds of GBs of space to store everything else which will be readily accessible. This is the kind of setup i have on both of my PCs at home.
One friend of ours who knows little about what’s inside a computer case thought it all sounded complicated. So, i used his car for an analogy of sorts by pointing out that not everything he stores in the car will fit in the glove box up front and that’s why they provide a larger storage space in the boot. At that point the light went on and he said well, yes, of course!

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Dell Inspiron 660 MT ordered yesterday. Told it wouldn’t be available until the end of the month, as they are awaiting delivery of the 21.5” monitor requested, but today I received the confirmation email, and it says delivery on or before 9th December. So much for their claim that only selling preassembled computers nowadays allows next day dispatch.

My heartfelt thanks to all who contributed to this thread with their wisdom, experience and opinions, which finally enabled me to make a choice. As you will see, I heeded the advice that there was no point in buying a Ferrari when a Ford would meet my needs.

Thank you all!

George

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Good luck with the new computer, George. Hope it arrives sooner rather than later and serves you well for a long time :).

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Good luck with the new computer, George. Hope it arrives sooner rather than later and serves you well for a long time :).

Thanks Rui.

Microsoft are a strange company. As stated, it was ordered Monday evening, then Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday more or less identical emails arrived, in each case with a 3 page invoice attached. Thursday’s said the goods despatched, and I would be able to track progress after three business days. This was followed by another saying they would arrive between 1pm and 7pm that day. At five past one the doorbell rang and there it was. So they got that right eventually!

But the advertised LED monitor is LCD, the only Led being the on/off indicator.

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Thanks Rui.

Microsoft are a strange company. As stated, it was ordered Monday evening, then Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday more or less identical emails arrived, in each case with a 3 page invoice attached. Thursday’s said the goods despatched, and I would be able to track progress after three business days. This was followed by another saying they would arrive between 1pm and 7pm that day. At five past one the doorbell rang and there it was. So they got that right eventually!

But the advertised LED monitor is LCD, the only Led being the on/off indicator.

Well the good thing is that it’s there. Probably the whole process doesn’t impress much, but it’s there (I suppose you meant Dell, too) :).
Probably their customer service should be contacted about the monitor?

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georgelee,
If you have time please post again and let us know how it goes with the new computer! Regards.

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georgelee,
If you have time please post again and let us know how it goes with the new computer! Regards.

Will do. I expect to connect tomorrow, although it will probably take a few days to get everythingg installed and updated.

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georgelee,
If you have time please post again and let us know how it goes with the new computer! Regards.

Well, it’s been an interesting day.

My first impression was how flimsy everything is. First out of the box was the keyboard – same dimensions as the old one, but lighter and thinner. The mouse also flimsy, the scroll wheel feels as though it will not last long.

The biggest surprise was the tower unit. It appears to be better made than my old Dimension, but about half the weight. As unlikely to be titanium, it must be quite thin metal. It may appear better made, but poorly designed, with the socket for the speakers on the front, hidden under a flap with 2 USB sockets and the one for the mic. But the flap has to remain open with the speakers connected, and I have no intention of getting down on my hands and knees with a torch to insert the lead every time to hear an audio.

The monitor is something of a disaster. Described as LED and HD it’s LCD and analogue, but too big. I chose Dell’s smallest monitor,21.5”, but it’s often difficult to read. I used 800 x 600 resolution on my old monitor, which was ideal, although it didn’t work well with my bifocals, as using the top half meant the screen was blurred because out of focus, but using the lower part meant I had to hold my head at an elevated angle, leading to aches after a while. The answer was to buy a pair of cheap, single focus glasses from a chemist, which were ideal.

Windows 8 works well on the laptop at 1360 x 768 – no need to change from my bifocals, as the machine is on the desk and I am looking down through the reading portion. But 1920 x 1080 on the new PC is literally a pain – bifocals are needed, so I get a pain in the neck from holding my head in an unnatural position, and with many sites the text is too small to read easily, and often cannot be enlarged with the scroll wheel. Worst are the little popups that appear when downloading apps, as the text is too small to notice unwanted extras.

It took about 90 minutes to download and install the 49 Windows updates. As for the apps, I started by removing McAffee, with some difficulty, and it still shows on the Metro screen. I’ve installed 8 or 9 programmes so far, starting with Firefox and Classic Shell, and ending with Malwarebytes, which revealed 9 instances of PUP optional, which proved so difficult to remove from all three PCs earlier this year. Appear to have been installed by Dell Mosquito, mentioned in two of the cases.

Hopefully tomorrow the printer, scanner, MS Office – with probably 100 or more patches – and the remaining programmes will complete the job.

Odds and ends:
I had been hoping to receive W8.1 but no luck there;

On the other hand, there was an OS installation disk, despite being told it would be just the recovery partition and the opportunity to make my own:

Mystery as to where the PC was manufactured. It says ‘Made in Poland’ on the outer box, rather than China or Taiwan, and the PC itself has a sticker ‘Made in Poland’ along with Dell and an Irish address, but also a small ‘Made in China’ sticker. The keyboard and mouse are clearly labelled China, so possibly the various parts assembled in Poland, not a country associated with technology.

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georgelee,

My experience was similar when i got my first 1920×1080 monitor – couldn’t read anything! However, there are simple adjustments you can make. And, those inexpensive single lens glasses from the chemist shop are also a good investment.

To make text in Windows larger, read this:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/get-best-display-monitor

To make text on webpages larger: i use Chrome browser and it has a Settings page where you can enlarge the default text size for all webpages; surely Firefox has a similar page for Settings. Also, with or without that Settings page, you can zoom in on any webpage by pressing CTRL + (hold down the CTRL key then tap the “plus” key to zoom in easy steps). Use CTRL – (hold CTRL then tap the “minus” key to zoom out).

Regarding Speaker output jack, please check the rear panel carefully for (usually) three small colored jacks. The green or light green color jack is for your speakers. The audio jack on top of the computer that you found is (usually) for headphones/earphones.

Our old Dell Dimension 4550 weighed a ton. Last year we helped a friend replace her old HP desktop. She got a Gateway model that is way, way faster than her old rig yet it’s half the size and half the weight, maybe less. Everything inside is smaller and lighter and the whole thing draws much less power from the wall outlet. Other than increasing the default text size (yup, almost everyone over 50 does!) she kept it as is. Allowing it to Sleep (actually, i think these days it’s Hybrid Sleep) when she walks away from it minimises wear and tear, so there’s no reason it shouldn’t see her through the next ten years. Hope your new Dell does the same!

By the way, i don’t think there’s any such thing as an LED monitor. i believe they are all LCD monitors, and modern ones use LED “backlighting”. Sometimes on price-sensitive systems the maker will skimp on cables by including only the old standard VGA (analog) cable even though the monitor itself may have a second jack that accepts a digital connector ( either DVI or HDMI). However, if everything looks clear and legible after you adjust the text size, then i wouldn’t worry about using a digital connection.

Regarding Windows 8.1, we had to use Windows Update and make sure all updates marked either Critical or Important were installed before we could click on Windows Store and actually see the Win 8.1 upgrade option.

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Thanks Marvin. Your comment about the speaker jack very useful. I had started setup by looking at the diagram of the front, which showed speaker and mic under the flap, and just connected, then overlooked the 3 audio ports at the back. I still think it’s poor having only 2 USB ports at the back, as nobody is going to have 4 USB 3 in use. I have the keyboard in one and a 4 port hub in the other.

Yesterday I found ‘Display’ in control panel and changed it to 1.25 times normal size which has helped considerably, but not on everything. After reading your posting I had another look and increased the text size for Message Boxes and Menus. Firefox used to have a facility for changing the default text size, but they seem to have caught Chrome’s example of eliminating many options. I seem to remember saying that Control and scroll wheel doesn’t always work with email or websites, so shall try Control +, which I had not heard of.

You are probably correct about the monitor. I now remember seeing ‘LED backlighting’ mentioned in some TV adverts or specifications, although the Panasonic TV bought earlier this year was only described as LED, as far as I recall. It may well have said LED backlighting somewhere.

PS. Need to buy a new scanner,Canoscan 8000 compatible wioth Win 7, 32 bit, but not W8.

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