“Blacksmith” repair on laptop

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Patient is an HP Envy 17 laptop, attachments for hinge screws have crumbled, causing case to split apart on one corner.  Official repair is to replace the top and bottom halves of the case, parts cost more than replacing the whole machine.

Considering a “custom” alternative- installing a couple of through bolts that would screw into t-nuts inserted in holes drilled thru top of case (if I can find small enough hardware).  Clearance for t-nuts might be an issue with lid closed.  Precautions needed (a rag or such) to prevent drilling debris from getting inside.  Also not sure about possible static electricity generated by a rotating drill bit.  Any blacksmiths here on Woody?

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Did have a similar problem. Found someone who has the skills to repair this with epoxy. Ans this workedout ok.

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Slowpoke47

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Haven’t fixed anything like that on a computer, but I have fixed some “plastic” boxes using adhesives. The key word is “plastic” since there are many types. Unless the packaging specifically says computer cases you might need to buy a few types and be prepared to experiment a bit. Whatever you end up with, make sure the bonding surfaces are clean. A little silicon caulk might do the trick if the mechanical stress on the cover isn’t too large. Otherwise I’d go to a paint store and buy some acetone – fingernail polish remover might also work. The acetone should slightly dissolve a thin layer on each bonding surface. Once that happens, press the parts together and clamp them for about an hour. As the acetone evaporates the dissolved plastic will resolidify forming a nice bond which should be fairly strong. Timing is kind of important, so put a drop or 2 of acetone on an inconspicuous part of the computer case and see how long it takes to dissolve – might look a bit gooey which is fine. I can’t guarantee how long such a repair will last, so be careful opening and closing the lid. No fast opens or slam closings allowed!

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Slowpoke47

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It would probably be a good idea to remove any shine that’s on surfaces that will be in contact with each other.

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Slowpoke47

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My description of this problem was not detailed enough.  That corner of the case is in fact hollow.  The hinge has a flat plate that attaches to the underside of the deck (keyboard, etc) with three screws that go into sockets, or tubes, that are integral with the deck molding.  These tubes have split and crumbled and no longer hold the screws in place.  The hinge itself is quite stiff (to hold the cover in place when opened) and, without those attachment screws, does not pivot but instead forces the halves of the base (case) open.  I’m thinking the one hinge now floating will cause misalignment of the other side, eventually breaking it, at which point the cover and case will part company.

So, there is nothing to glue here.  My thinking has moved beyond using bolts and now I’m planning to use rivets (so-called “pop” rivets) to reattach the hinge plate to the underside of the deck.  To do this, I need to put the hinge plate exactly in position and drill thru the holes in the plate and on thru the deck.  The rivets install from the top with the setting tool and do not protrude above the deck surface as would a bolt head.  Thus, no interference when closing the lid.

Drilling these holes requires access to the underside of the deck.  The HP service manual details how to remove the bottom half of the case, but the procedure may involve more disassembly than I’m comfortable with, and I may cut an access hole under the hinge location instead- haven’t decided.  If I do that, I can patch the hole later.

This operation is not really that complicated- less so than my long-winded explanation.  What I don’t know is just how concerned I should be about generating static electricity in the course of the handling, drilling, and riveting.  In the past, I have operated inside a desktop, and grounded myself and the metal case before doing so.  Since this laptop case is non-metallic, I don’t think I can ground it.

This machine has no files stored, as it’s used just to cruise the net.  But before starting I’ll back up the tabs and bookmarks in case the operation succeeds but the patient dies.

 

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Charlie, DrBonzo

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You should use Rivet Nuts (Rivnuts) instead of plain rivets as that would allow you to still attach/detach the hinges using screws if needed.

I’ve successfully used these numerous times to fix issues were the plastic stand-offs for a screw split open on various different items, including a few plastic PC cases and them work great as long as they’re properly installed.

Most local hardware stores carry them, or you can order them online, and they come in various thread sizes, lengths and materials (aluminum, steel, and even plastic.)

To use them in your situation, cut off the remainder of the plastic parts that split apart and then, from inside the case and to avoid generating static, hand drill appropriately sized holes for each stand-off thru the plastic base (be sure it’s slightly smaller than the diameter of the rivnuts themselves.)

Then force the rivnuts into the hole from outside the case ensuring the striations grab the outside of each hole so they won’t spin.

You’ll then be able to “securely” screw the hinges back in place (note: be sure not to over tighten them as that’ll cause the rivnuts to spin and they’ll strip-out the holes and loosen up.)

The rivnuts “will” protrude slightly below the base but it that shouldn’t matter as it won’t be as much as the existing rubber feet.

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Charlie, AlphaCharlie, Slowpoke47, DrBonzo

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Well… the fat lady has sung, audience moved on to the wine and cheese reception…

Repair is complete, successful outcome, cost right around zero.  With so much fevered disagreement about grounding to prevent ESD, I elected to do so, using a couple of 16 gauge jumpers out of the tool chest.  Clipped one to my watchband and one to a metallic element on the chassis, both other ends grounded.  The case back panel came off easily with a little guidance from the appropriate HP cookbook.  Would not have found some of the screws otherwise.

That clever little hardware bit posted by n0ads wouldn’t have worked in this case, but I’ll file that away for future reference.  The best solution, which came to me in the shower last night, was pop rivets, which secure the hinge plate against the remains of the locating mount and do not protrude above the deck, avoiding interference with the lid when closed.  They can be drilled out if ever needed.

The only footnote regards the corner of that bottom panel, which was slightly damaged by the wayward hinge plate and cannot be bolted back securely.  To solve that I’ll put a small blob of silicone calking on top of the hinge plate to contact the inside of the case corner but able to be unstuck if I ever need to get back in there.

Laptop appears to be running normally.  Blacksmith now retired.

 

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Charlie, TechTango, Sueska, Microfix, NaNoNyMouse, DrBonzo

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Nice job, congrats! 😀

Greetings

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Slowpoke47

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Marked as resolved

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Congratulations, I’m always pleased when people do the impossible.  Although mainstream hardware can seem cheap to replace sometimes, weird stuff like 17″ laptops it is sad to see lost.  Since a 17″ Dell, even from their outlet, is $1400, compared to the $600 or so a 15″ is available for.

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Charlie, Slowpoke47

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I know you have it marked as ‘solved,’ but there are also options like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/385437377466

$25 for a used replacement. Not sure if it is the correct one for the laptop, but you can usually get parts for common laptops on eBay for cheap prices.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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Slowpoke47

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I actually did consider that route, and I am a frequent flyer on ebay, mostly successfully.  And the p/n is printed on the part.  The two mitigating factors were (1) No assurance on the integrity of a used part such as this one- this laptop came to us as refurb, and has never been dropped, etc, but those screw sockets crumbled anyway- could it be it was subject to rough treatment in its former life which began the cracking?

And (2) Once I finished fretting over the repair, it took all of 20 minutes, and cost, as mentioned, was almost nothing.  Spent more time posting this thread than doing the work.

And as is often the case with repair work on almost anything, the factory cookbook was a crucial bit of assistance.

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Just to add a possibly important item to the thread, I’ve had several HP’s “fail” on their lower case where the hinges attach, and one “help” is to, along with repairing, apply some lubricant to the hinges (I used WD-40).  Then they move easier, more similar to when they were new, and are less likely to fracture the plastic again.

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Slowpoke47

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WD-40 Silicone spray I’d agree with, any other spray oil has the potential to weaken plastics over time. Also good for rubber seals and the like to rejuvenate flexibility whilst protecting from drying and cracking. – satisfied customer sales pitch over 😉

If debian is good enough for NASA...

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wavy, Slowpoke47

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If the part is no good (and it did not say so in the description), contact the seller to send it back for refund (before leaving feedback). If the seller refuses a refund, contact eBay.

I’ve had a few items that were not as advertised on eBay, including one “genuine” DVD that was clearly a DVD-R with a writable label (it looked horrible)… AND it was cracked when it got here. The seller did not want it back, and I got my money back. I wanted the actual DVD with the actual software, not some pirate copy.

EBay gets on their case if they don’t play nice, I guess, and I always try to buy from places that have free returns. But even a place that says no returns should not be off the hook if the item is not as described.

I read of one case where a seller was offering a game cartridge for some game system before the optical-disc console era, and the cartridge had a bunch of stickers on it when the buyer received it. It still worked, but the buyer was not happy about the stickers and complained to eBay, who refunded his/her money.

I would not have kept the item and my money back, and in that case I would have simply removed the stickers, but it does suggest eBay has little sympathy for sellers when they do not describe the item perfectly.

If the item is not listed as needing repairs, you should expect it to be in usable condition. I would not expect a used unit to be in brand new condition unless it said so… a few scuffs and minor scratches would be expected, but that would be it.

 

 

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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Slowpoke47, Sueska

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A couple of similar Ebay experiences here, enough to reassure me that Ebay polices its vendors well.  Also- since my go-to payment method is PayPal, there have been a couple of times when P/P stepped in to lean on an iffy seller elsewhere online.  Both sites have every incentive to maintain a trustworthy environment.

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Sad to say, this saga has a second chapter.  After my repair, and a sniff of WD40 on the hinges, the hinges have remained stiff enough that the corners of the case have continued to flex and the repaired corner is crumbling.  Since I am not the user of this laptop, I hadn’t noticed the ongoing problem.  I expect the corner of the case to break completely.  On closer examination, I can see the non-broken corner also flexes when the lid is opened/closed.

 

I don’t know what the best solution is to this.  Captain Al, above, describes this problem with multiple H/P laptops.  Are the hinges by nature too tight?  Should I replace them?  And, of course, the case will need attention as well. FWIW, I do have plenty of experience using various epoxy and polyester resins and putty.  Do people replace laptop cases?

 

 

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Slowpoke47 wrote:

After my repair, and a sniff of WD40 on the hinges, the hinges have remained stiff enough that the corners of the case have continued to flex and the repaired corner is crumbling.

WD-40, which did you use?
Hopefully not the regular WD-40 release/water repelant oil..as it’ll weaken cracked plastics quicker than you think.

Microfix wrote:

WD-40 Silicone spray I’d agree with, any other spray oil has the potential to weaken plastics over time.

Alternative is to leave the laptop open constantly and have it stationary, otherwise you are in fixit forever territory.

If debian is good enough for NASA...

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Charlie, Slowpoke47

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Microfix wrote:

WD-40, which did you use? Hopefully not the regular WD-40 release/water repelant oil..as it’ll weaken cracked plastics quicker than you think.

This is what I used.

In keeping with my history as the last one to find out about anything, although I’ve used WD40 more or less forever, I was not aware that there is more than one flavor.  But since I used the little snorkel, there was no overspray beyond the hinges.  (Took the hinge cover off to lube them, now can’t get it back on)

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wrong lubricant.

Slowpoke47 wrote:

In keeping with my history as the last one to find out about anything, although I’ve used WD40 more or less forever, I was not aware that there is more than one flavor.

Poor excuse, WD-40 Silicone Spray was mentioned as advice here

Microfix wrote:

WD-40 Silicone spray I’d agree with, any other spray oil has the potential to weaken plastics over time.

WD-40 Silicon spray is safe on plastics and glues.

If you try to repair it again, you will need to be degreased first but, not only could the degreasant be harmful to plastics, we don’t know how deep the incorrect WD-40 oil has set into the plastic, weakening/softening it further.

leave the laptop open constantly and have it stationary.
IOW it’s portability is ‘fecked’ as they say in emerald isle 😉

If debian is good enough for NASA...

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Slowpoke47

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Microfix wrote:

If you try to repair it again, you will need to be degreased first but, not only could the degreasant be harmful to plastics, we don’t know how deep the incorrect WD-40 oil has set into the plastic, weakening/softening it further.

Well, as mentioned, no spray got to the plastic case, just a sniff to the actual hinges.  The hinge cover is off and the hinges had a rag around them.  Didn’t seem to make them any looser, though.  FWIW I have this juice also, but perhaps I should replace the hinges?

 

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Hi Slowpoke, Sorry your fix was not more permanent. I am sure you will come up with an idea. Just wanted to mention that I concur with Microfix about leaving the laptop open. Because of previous laptop hinge and monitor problems, we leave our laptops open the majority of the time. We only close them only when needed for maintenance or if have to take it somewhere. When we do close, we use two hands spread out evenly on each side of the monitor case to lesson stress on the hinges. When opening we lift gently in the middle, then use two hands with fingers spread out on each side of the case to continue opening.

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Slowpoke47

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Previous laptops never had a hinge issue like this.  The last one was, IIRC, an Acer, before that I don’t recall.  But a post in this thread alludes to the same hinge problem with H/P machines.  Is this a known failing of H/P laptops?

 

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Hi Slowpoke, We never owned a HP laptop. I searched the internet for various laptop brands and found hinge repair videos for every brand searched. Hopefully it’s ok to post this link on askwoody, you may find this interesting. https://www.classaction.org/blog/useless-computers-lawsuit-claims-hp-laptop-hinges-break-easily-due-to-defect   This makes me sound like an old fogey, but it seems they don’t make things like they used to.

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Slowpoke47

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Slowpoke47 wrote:

Is this a known failing of H/P laptops?

I’ve got an HP 6910p laptop I bought back in Dec 2013 that I “regularly” used for remote maintenance for many years during my time as an IT contractor.

I probably averaged opening/closing it at least 6 – 8 time a day for the better part of 8 years and never experienced any problems with the hinges or the case.

It still opens/closes just fine even though I only use it once or twice  month now.

The only issues I’ve had with it are replacing the battery due to age (2 so far) and the rubber feet on the bottom due to wear.

Of course the 6910p was one of their “top-of-the-line” business laptops so my experience may not be a good comparison to their “consumer level” laptops.

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Sueska wrote:

This makes me sound like an old fogey, but it seems they don’t make things like they used to.

That’s been my experience as well.

Unfortunately, those class action lawsuits, if successful, typically provide a meager return to the members of the class.

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Sueska

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Well… in a (rare) moment of mental clarity, I decided to slightly loosen the two nuts on the hinge pins before doing anything more elaborate – and voila! the lid now opens/closes easily, no case flexing.  These nuts are the type of locknuts with the plastic insert, so they should stay where I left them.  OTOH, how did they get tight in the first place?

The class action above posted by Sueska looks like a somewhat different issue, with users reporting broken hinges.  But the comment about things more poorly made these days unfortunately seems to apply to every kind of manufactured item, and that trend appears to be accelerating.

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Charlie

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Always remember Slowpoke, you’re almost always fighting Programmed Obsolescence!

Being 20 something in the 70's was far more fun than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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Post mortem-  The repair outlined in this thread was done in response to a rear corner of the case separating, with the hinge apparently causing this to happen.  At that time, I didn’t look for a causative factor.

Once I realized just how stiff the hinges were, I had the answer.  And, it’s likely they were stiff when we bought this laptop, about 2 1/2 years ago, as a refurb, so we never gave it a second thought.  Unknown whether they were tightened during the refurb process, or overtightened originally, from H/P.

As I am not the user of this machine, I was unaware of the developing case failure until recently.  The case had to have been stressed every time the lid was opened or closed, eventually breaking.  Loosening those jam nuts on the hinges solved the problem- made them just tight enough to hold the lid in place when open, but loose enough to avoid stressing the case.

But I still agree with the comments above regarding the decline of quality in manufacturing.  If there’s a lesson here for other laptop users, it would be to look at the case corners while opening/closing the lid to see if there is any distortion.  If yes, the correction isn’t complicated.

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Sueska

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See photo for location of hex nuts on hinges, these are what I adjusted to the least tension that will hold the monitor in place when open.  Center hinge cover removed in photo.

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Well, here we are 6 months on with unfortunate news.  The repair shown above came too late to save this laptop, and one hinge mount corner on the case broke off completely.  (In my own defense, I am not the user of this machine, so I was not aware of the deterioration)

In an attempt to avoid replacing the laptop, just finished replacing the top cover/keyboard.  All complete now but a glitch- the connector on the wifi cable will not stay attached to the connector on the wifi board.

Investment to date about $65 for a new top cover and new hinges.  Now awaiting replacement board and cable (the latter maybe not needed), thereby enriching the pot by $25 more.  Strategy is to try attaching the installed cable to the new board- if good, then I’ll return the cable- the cable installation is more involved.  Still seems worth a gamble to avoid discarding the laptop.

And a cautionary note to others with HP laptops- your hinges may be too tight.  That was the cause of the original failure here.  Seems that HP laptops in particular often have this problem.  If the hinge corners of the base flex when opening/closing the display, they are too tight.  BUT- this is correctable and you can avoid case damage.  The hinges are adjustable- here’s how:

Remove the hinge cover (between the hinges) by carefully squeezing one end and working along to the other end while gently pulling on it.  You will see the hinges, each with a lock nut that holds a number of washers on the hinge pin.  Use a 5.5mm socket wrench to remove the nuts, then remove washer(s) enough to reduce the tension on the hinges when the lock nuts are replaced.  If you look closely, you will see that the hinge pins have shoulders on the part where the washers are, so the lock nuts can be tightened securely.  As an alternative, you could just leave the lock nuts looser, but they may then not stay “put.”

This sounds like a major operation, but in fact it is pretty simple.

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DrBonzo, PL1

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I should add that while HP hinge execution leaves something to be desired, their service manual for this laptop is good, has part numbers and guidance on procedures.  Showed locations of some hidden screws to be removed when opening the case.

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