Best of breed: Win10’s hybrid backup system

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	TOP STORY Best of breed: Win10’s hybrid backup system
	By Fred Langa Win10 blends the best parts of Win7’s and Win8’s backup/restore tools to create a new hybrid that could well be the best archive-and-recover system ever. When set up properly, Win10 gives you redundant, automatic, local, and remote backups of user files, making them effectively loss-proof.

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The full text of this column is posted at windowssecrets.com/top-story/best-of-breed-win10s-hybrid-backup-system (paid content, opens in a new window/tab).

Columnists typically cannot reply to comments here, but do incorporate the best tips into future columns.[/td]

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Awesome detailing of Win10’s backup feastures… thanks Mike.
Cary

	TOP STORY Best of breed: Win10’s hybrid backup system
	By Fred Langa Win10 blends the best parts of Win7’s and Win8’s backup/restore tools to create a new hybrid that could well be the best archive-and-recover system ever. When set up properly, Win10 gives you redundant, automatic, local, and remote backups of user files, making them effectively loss-proof.

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The full text of this column is posted at windowssecrets.com/top-story/best-of-breed-win10s-hybrid-backup-system (paid content, opens in a new window/tab).

Columnists typically cannot reply to comments here, but do incorporate the best tips into future columns.[/td]

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What if you just want to Restore arbitrarily? You list the method to restore from a boot disk after some emergency but what if you just want to put the confuser back to the way it was in your last backup.

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Fred,

Here is some info for you.

The Volume Shadow Copy Service (“VSS”) in Windows 10 is, per Level 2 Microsoft Tech Support, broken and the last stable version was Windows 7.

I use Shadow Protect Desktop for image backups and it kept failing in Windows 10 despite being rock solid in Windows 7. I even tried Acronis and it too failed. At that point I did troubleshooting and read more than I ever wanted to know about VSS and its errors. Microsoft Level 1 told me it was the fault of 3rd party software, which was to be expected. I told them they were wrong because even in a fresh installation of Windows 10 the Command Prompt (Admin) of VSS LIST WRITERS would unexpectedly fail, locking up and not proceeding.

I paid the $149.00 for Level 2 and spent over 24 hours this past weekend working with Level 2 techs to find what was causing the system to fail. Finally one tech found that VSS has not been stable since Windows 7, apologized, refunded my money and suggested I wait for a fix to VSS at some point in the future. He also said I was the first fully documented case of this problem. I said OK and took the refund.

A few days later another Level 2 tech called because apparently multiple case numbers had been opened. I told him the money had been refunded because the VSS problem was in Windows 10. He didn’t believe me and did some research. He then came back on the phone and said I was correct and that his supervisor had heard of a second case like mine that very day and now there were two fully documented cases of the problem.

So why did I write this? Because some of your users may have issues with any image backups, if not any backups, occurring in Windows 10 if that program needs a functioning VSS.

YMMV.

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VSS works in W8/8.1 as well – just for the record.

cheers, Paul

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It will work some of the time, but it isn’t fully functional in 8/8.1 or 10 per Microsoft. VSS works sometimes for me. The best way for me to get it to work is to reboot right after a job was to start and let the job run before VSS becomes locked by some unknown issue. But as I said MS confirmed to me that there is now a second documented case with my issues and they were forwarding their info to the developers. To me that means it will possibly be addressed in SP1.

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It will work some of the time, but it isn’t fully functional in 8/8.1 or 10 per Microsoft

Please provide evidence of VSS not being fully functional.

cheers, Paul

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Please provide evidence of VSS not being fully functional.

cheers, Paul

Here is proof of where the problem first occurred with a log showing where Shadow Protect failed.https://www.storagecraft.com/support/forum/windows-10-code-199-try-snapshot-vss-api-stc-provider-friday-0

Here is what I wrote to Storagecraft after I heard that it indeed was a VSS problem. Note that I went to Storagecraft before I went to Microsoft and remember I had tried Acronis and had done multiple repair reinstalls and finally another completely fresh installation of Windows 10. https://www.storagecraft.com/support/forum/windows-10-and-vss-errors

Finally I don’t have phone recordings of my chat with repeated discussions with Microsoft’s technicians after I had paid my $149.00, nor of them saying the problem was with Windows and them refunding that same $149.00. So either you believe me or tell me you don’t and I will remove the thread. Frankly I am not pleased with the way your demand to provide proof sounded to me.

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Please keep this thread going! I was going to tell Fred that his article has finally given me the needed “smoking gun” to trigger migration to Win 10. This thread put a block on that until the VSS issue is fixed. Then it will be time to migrate. Until then, I’ll happily stay with Win 7; thanks be that I avoided Win 8 / 8.1, except for trial VMs (and thanks to VMWare for their free tools — they rock!).

DVH

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Please keep this thread going!
DVH

I forgot that I was in Fred’s thread so I can’t remove the thread, so that would limit me to trying to remove my posts. The truth is that I am already sufficiently PO’d with MS after a lost weekend and then didn’t appreciate what I inferred as a comment on the truthfulness of what I had posted. I had never had this problem in 5+ years of Windows 7, and if someone want to check my infrequent post history I have no history of running around and saying that the sky is falling. I also didn’t think I needed to provide the case numbers that Microsoft assigned the issue in order to provide “proof”.

Yeah, I am PO’d, but not at you dvhirst.

(FWIW, with only my hearing for proof, this seems to be an uncommon to rare problem, with only two cases having gone through the complete process of trying to isolate the error, doing reinstalls of Windows 10, etc. Of course it might be uncommon to rare since many folks would not have paid the $149.00 for Microsoft Assure.)

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If I upgrade a machine from Win7 or Win8.1 to Win10 and later do a Refresh, what operating system will I end up with? I upgraded a Win8 machine to Win8.1 and later did a Refresh. It put the machine back to Win8!

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If I upgrade a machine from Win7 or Win8.1 to Win10 and later do a Refresh, what operating system will I end up with?

Win10. If you’re not convinced think about this. After you have upgraded to Win10 -and verified that activation has worked (your license has been correctly record at MS servers)- do a Reset (NB. save data files first from ALL partitions!). Now when you do a Refresh what do you think you will end up with? Answer: there’s nothing to go back to except Win10.

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There will be no SP1. There may be specific targets for inclusion of substantial updates such as the code name Threshold 2 which is rumored to be in November. Microsoft has said they will release fixes and features when they are ready rather than wait for a “big bang”.

Joe

--Joe

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There will be no SP1. There may be specific targets for inclusion of substantial updates such as the code name Threshold 2 which is rumored to be in November. Microsoft has said they will release fixes and features when they are ready rather than wait for a “big bang”.

Joe

I figure I have 6-8 months to wait and hope it can be less. I really like having my image backups actually happening in the background without errors or having to reboot each time just as the backup begins.

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@bmeachem

Should be Win10 if you use the built-in tools.

Joe

--Joe

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Unfortunately with Windows 10 right now Microsoft isn’t releasing information about what is being fixed when patches are released. So, you may have a difficult time telling when it is fixed. Microsoft has said they will provide that information to Enterprise customers but haven’t done that yet. Perhaps if enough people yell they will alter the policy.

Joe

--Joe

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On my Win10 system, Control Panel/System and Security/File History says, “For your security, some settings are managed by your system administrator.” Fine, but I’m not in an office situation, I’m at home, one computer, and I set it up. “File History is off” and I cannot turn it on. What is going on? I don’t HAVE s system administrator other than me, so why can’t I turn File History on?

Same if I go to Update and Security on the Settings menu. Backup is off and I cannot turn it on, and it says, “Some settings are managed by your organization.” ???!!! I don’t HAVE an organization!

Any suggestions?

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That is usually a Group Policy setting, which is just a registry change. See if this article helps.
http://www.grouppolicy.biz/2010/06/how-to-use-group-policy-to-turn-off-backup-notification-in-the-windows-7-action-center-the-easier-way/

cheers, Paul

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I thought your restore discussion was fine. I need a more thorough discussion of Win 10, how to create the back up. And including how to create a bootable usb device.

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Good information, but like most all recovery instructions for Windows/7-10, one must boot to Windows and then click here and there for various steps. If one can boot to Windows, then recovery is probably not needed. The BIG problem is when you cannot boot to Windows and need to somehow recover. Now that information would be good to know.

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FYI, after reading this I checked my File History (Win 10) an found that because the USB drive was disconnected “too long” I had to reconnect and click over. However, after doing that like 10 times and getting nowhere – and even though there was no problem reading the drive via Explorer, I did an online search of the problem and found a number of people that have the same problem. Seems like you have to reset up the whole File History backup feature and start from scratch. Pretty poor backup method imo. I should be able to use a USB that may not always be plugged in for this. I basically just turned the stupid “feature” off as I no longer feel like wasting time trying to make something work that should.

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Loved your article. I just upgraded from Win 7 to 10. I skipped Win 8. One of the first things I did was to implement File History. My only problem is that it seems there is the option to Exclude folders, but I saw no way to Include additional folders. I may have missed something, but don’t know how to do it if it is possible in Win 10. If Including additional folders is not available in Win 10’s version of File History, this is a tragedy of sorts. What’s the scoop?

don332 🙁

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You add folders by adding them to one of your libraries. It saves everything in libraries, desktop, contacts, favourites and off-line Onedrive files. What it doesn’t save is anything outside of those – e.g. your own apps. So just add any folder to a library – you can even add a new library for folders which don’t ‘fit’ in any of the standard libraries.

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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Thanks much for the tip; it solved my problem with including new folders by creating new library(libraries). I went back and to Fred’s Oct., 2014 article and followed the clearly explained the process. I just had to dig a bit deeper.

Don332

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I’ll chime in again; there’s now another strong reason for migration to Win 10 — that is the enhanced BitLocker capability described in today’s WS article about BitLocker. I do hope that folks on this thread will get some indication that the VSS issues is fixed; that will definitly trigger an upgrade for me and the computers I manage.

DVH

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I’ll chime in again; there’s now another strong reason for migration to Win 10 — that is the enhanced BitLocker capability described in today’s WS article about BitLocker.

I wasn’t clear from that article what was new for BitLocker in Windows 10. BitLocker was available in Windows 7 Ultimate and Windows 8/8.1 Pro. “broader application”? :confused:

BitLocker does have a few new features in Windows 10, but I don’t think that article described any of them: [BitLocker] What’s new with Windows 10?

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Try this MS article. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows-10/create-a-recovery-drive

cheers, Paul

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Fred,

Recently, I’ve started using a new software called backupper.

It does more like cloning new drive replacements, system images, partition and file specific backups.

It has a built in flexible scheduler.

You may want to check it out.

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Do you mean Aomei Backupper? It’s good according to the WS newsletter.

cheers, Paul

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