Backing up with Timeshift

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Setting up new pc, Dell Optiplex 5060, OS is Mate 20.3.  Seems a good time to switch from Veeam, my backup app since W7 days, in favor of Timeshift.  Turns out that conflicting info abounds- on the Mint forum some have said Timeshift saves system info only and specifically excludes local /home/ files and suchlike.  Others insist it’s the other way around- user files are saved but not system config.  Apparently the developer, name of Tony George, has not issued a tutorial, but is (or, was) willing to sell some info, not sure just what. A search here turns up nothing.  Elsewhere opinions seem to be split.  Looking at the Timeshift pop-ups, looks like it does in fact save local data, but not sure about system config.

Veeam (I used the free version) by my choice saved a full system image- OS config, local and hidden files, everything- and my practice for all those years has been to run weekly backups stored on an external disk which was connected to the old pc only when running the backups (ask me if I’m paranoid…).  Seems to me to be the most sensible way to go.  If I’m going to abandon Veeam, I want to be sure I can restore the entire system, files included, if need be.

So, Timeshift users, who’s right?

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Mate is a desktop environment, not a full OS. I take it you mean Linux Mint 20.3 with Mate?

Timeshift is not meant to be a replacement for a backup program. By default, it will create something similar to a Windows system restore point (although considerably more robust and flexible), meant to get the system working again if something goes wrong (a bad update, inadvertent file deletion, stuff like that). It does not include /home in the snapshot by default, though you can configure it to do so. It is not really meant for that purpose, and I seem to recall something about the author (Tony George) suggesting another program for that, something like LuckyBackup or BackInTime. These are meant more as full backup programs.

FWIW, Mint has taken over maintaining Timeshift, as Tony George has apparently lost interest in continuing to maintain it (or his other programs, like the Ubuntu Mainline kernel installer) for free, with very few donations coming in. Mainline has become a paid product, and Timeshift is apparently abandoned (or mostly so) by its original author.

If there is not some specific reason why Veeam is no longer suitable, it remains the only free imaging backup program for consumers for Linux, as far as I know, and by far the fastest of all the ones I have tried. Unfortunately, I do have a reason why Veeam no longer works for me the way it once did.

I have moved to OpenSUSE Tumbleweed as my main OS of late, and as a rolling release distro, the kernels are rolled out by OpenSUSE as soon as the mainline kernel team releases them, and the older ones are quickly removed from the repo (unlike Ubuntu, where every kernel ever offered is available at any time). The VeeamSnap module that is necessary for Veeam to do an imaging backup while using the OS is compatible with kernels up to 5.15 (they claim 5.16 RC-something, but that’s a beta), but Tumbleweed had already moved beyond 5.15 by the time that I started using it… so the older kernel releases are no longer present in the repo.

Veeam Agent for Linux 6 should arrive in the next few months, and along with it the new generation of the snapshot module (now called BlkSnap), and hopefully they will get that mainlined into the kernel as they plan. If they are successful, kernel incompatibilities should become a thing of the past for Veeam.

What this means to me at the practical level is that Veeam does not work with Tumbleweed, and it has not since I started using Tumbleweed some time ago. I have yet to find another program that I am happy with. I’ve tried the two mentioned above, but they are both based on the same backend that Timeshift uses (rsync), which is not particularly speedy, as it works at the file level rather than reading the disk as a continuous stream of data one volume (partition, basically) at a time.

My backups are huge (each of my two main laptops listed in my .sig below has 2 TB of storage, and they are mostly full), and using rsync takes a really long time (in conjunction with my “backup server,” which is just a regular PC with a lot of hard drives in it). With a smaller amount of stuff to back up, this may not be a concern, but for me, it’s a pretty big annoyance.

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jbhq, DrBonzo, Charlie, Slowpoke47

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Many thanks for posting this explanation.

Ascaris wrote:

Mate is a desktop environment, not a full OS. I take it you mean Linux Mint 20.3 with Mate?

Yes, I misspoke.  You are of course correct.

You were the one who originally steered me to Veeam and helped me get it set up.  After reading your answer to my question above, I will for sure stay with Veeam assuming it’s still available- I saved a link to that original thread and with that plus some notes I made from that effort I think I can get it operational.  On our previous machine, when it was backing up two HDD’s, the backups ran about 75 minutes or so- not a huge amount of data to be saved.  In the process of moving out of that pc, and with one disk unplugged, the backups became substantially faster.

This replacement computer came with one disk on which I overwrote W10  with Mate 20.3, never even booted W10.  I plan to install a second disk for a Mate 21 instance as insurance against failed updates or even disk failure.   While I have never needed to deploy a backup, I’ve been careful to do them once a week or after any significant change.

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Installed Veeam today, using Ascaris’ tutorial:

Topic: A step by step, illustrated guide to using Veeam to back up to an external HDD @ AskWoody

Went fine, same as the last time I used it.  Final setup screen:

Plugged in the ext. disk- 1TB, formatted FAT32, backup started, ran for a few minutes, then reported “failed”.  Formatted the disk again, same result.  Tried a different disk, same specs as above, same result.  Both disks showed no data before using them.  (This was going to be just too easy…)

Never had a backup fail before, what did I do wrong?  Not sure what these fail screens are telling me.  Port on computer is USB Gen 3.1.  3rd fail was the same disk I’ve used for years with the old pc.

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FWIW the install was slightly odd- first, checked Synaptic, Veeam not preinstalled.  Downloaded free version from Veeam, .deb file. Clicked on file, pop-up appeared “already installed.”  Waited a few minutes, went back to Synaptic, there was only one entry “veeam-release-deb” with check box filled in green, not by my effort.  In Terminal, <sudo veeam> did nothing.  Back to Synaptic, now showed all Veeam entries in s/shot, with just “veeam-release-deb” shown as installed.  I installed the 1st and 4th items (2nd entry seemed redundant to the first) and Terminal setup went along just as lucidly explained by Ascaris.  Stared b/u job, results in previous post.

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Just went back to the old pc to check that Veeam install- in Synaptic, pkgs installed are identical to the above s/shot from the new computer.  Veeam ran without issue in the old machine, not sure where to go with this.

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Any issues reported in the release notes for the version of Veeam you’r using?

I noticed in one of your screen shots there’s a statement about a file being too large. Depending on how your disk(s) is(are) formatted, that could be a problem. There are a few file formats one can use to format disks. There’s a file size limitation when a disk is formatted in exFat32. I’m not totally up on the different file formats, but in Mint Cinnamon there’s a program called USB Stick Formatter. Put a stick in a usb port, open the program and hover over the box that says format or format method. You should see a box pop up that gives a brief summary of a few different types of formatting. I’m not on a linux Mint machine right now, otherwise I’d look

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Slowpoke47

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Fat32 has a filesize limit of 4G (4.3G in bytes). This linuxmint poster (peter269 ) had a similar problem with another backup program. He solved it using a different file format for his backup device. See [SOLVED] Backup tool [Errno 27] File too large https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=339262

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Slowpoke47, DrBonzo

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format the external disk to EXT4 instead of fat32, try again and it will succeed.

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Slowpoke47, Microfix, DrBonzo

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I did use the USB stick formatter function to be sure both of the disks I tried were wiped and formatted.  There are 3 choices- EXT4, specified for Linux internal disks only, NTFS, for MS systems, and FAT32, called out as used for everything else.  (missed that 4GB limit, thanks, Sueska)  I must have known this originally, because one of the (1tb) disks I tried is my former backup disk.

Also the “bottleneck” in the error screen said “source, file too large” which I could have read, “target too small.”

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DrBonzo

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Two more failed backups- one with EXT4 format (upper s/shot) and one with an option called exFAT32. 

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Update- Posted on Veeam blog, advised to file request to Customer Support, did so.  Meanwhile ran Timeshift snapshot.

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Hello Slowpoke – sounds like you were successfully able to use timeshift. Regarding your question on the Veeam snapshot overflow error. It appears you had this error once in the past. In Askwoody’s (Ascaris’s) “A step by step, illustrated guide to using Veeam to back up to an external HDD” See posts #2083959 and the explanation of what the error means by JustLurking #2084707. I suspect by your comparison of the old and new OS in synaptic means that your install of Veeam is fine. If it was me having this problem, I would try simple first. Meaning I would try to disable anything running in the background (including internet) and try the Veeam again. If this does not work, maybe Veeam can help you.

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Slowpoke47

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Thanks for your interest.  There was never a question as to whether I could use Timeshift, what I have never found out is exactly what it saves.  Forum member Ascaris in this thread has once again lobbied for Veeam, as he did several years ago when he posted this write-up:

Topic: A step by step, illustrated guide to using Veeam to back up to an external HDD @ AskWoody

I appreciate his guidance and, of course, defer to his expertise.  I ran a Timeshift image as being better than nothing while waiting for a response from Veeam.  Still hoping to get it enabled in the new machine.

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Sueska

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Thanks for explaining Slowpoke. I understand what your main concern is now. Unfortunately I cannot speak to which backup program is best or adequate. I do not have experience running any backup Linux programs since my Linux Mint mate is installed within a virtual machine. I use the virtual machine tools for my backups. Some words of wisdom from someone who has been burnt with a backup program failing. Never hurts to have more than one method to backup and recover. Sounds like you are on the right track.

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Slowpoke47

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Plenty of wrong and mis-info out there re Timeshift- on the Mint forum there are various assertions that contradict each other…

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Sueska

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I don’t want to get too far off topic, but I’ll toss this out FWIW.

My backup and recovery strategy is fairly crude but it works for me. I keep a bootable usb stick with the Mint version I’m currently using. I check it every now and then to make sure it still boots. Every so often I’ll copy documents and files to another usb stick. The timing just depends on how much stuff I’ve generated, how important it is and how easy it would be to replace. I include book marks from browsers. If my computer ever heads south I can reinstall Mint, copy my files back and install a couple programs and be back up and running, typically in 30 to 60 minutes. I will add that I don’t generate that much stuff and I only have a couple programs I use that aren’t included in the Mint installation.

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Slowpoke47, Sueska

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Using Timeshift until I can get Veeam or similar sorted out and running.  Saving to an ext disk, connected only for backing up- same as with previous b/u apps.  When using ext media, I’ve always right-clicked the device (folders page, left column) and clicked “stop” or “eject” before removing.  With Timeshift running, a message displays, “cannot stop, still running” after the backup is complete.  So I just unplug the disk.  Question- is this ok?

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Slowpoke: “So I just unplug the disk. Question- is this ok?”

It might be OK: I have done this a few times without bad consequences. (Although always getting a note from the system complaining about it.) Not when running Linux, but when running Windows 7 and, specially since January 2020,  macOS.

However, there might be a software way to force it to quit. In Macs this can be done using the main application “Finder”, that does as its name indicates, plus several other important things for managing files and other applications from the GUI rather than the command line. Maybe, if you have Linux in dual-boot with Windows, what you would need for the clean eject of a stubborn external disk is in the “Computer” section listed in the Windows 10 Start menu? (If one can switch systems without disconnecting the external disk — and that might do the trick, anyway — and if Windows 10 release No. whatever still has a Start menu; I’m a bit rusty when it comes to Windows.)

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

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Slowpoke47

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It’s probably OK. But you can reboot your machine and plug the external drive back in and see if you’ve got stuff on it. If the computer can generate a list of files on the drive, it’s probably OK.

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Slowpoke47

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The b/u disk has shown a new folder both times I’ve used it.  Haven’t opened those folders.  But I’ve always been warned in that situation to turn off the disk before unplugging or the sky will fall, or suchlike.

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DrBonzo

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That’s probably the preferred way but I know people who always just pull the drive out and have never had problems. As they say, though, YMMV. If you get the message again it might not hurt to wait 5 minutes and see if the computer thinks timemachine has finished up. If not I’d either unplug the drive or restart the computer, the latter idea being that the computer will shut down all processes before actually totally shutting down.

Any resident experts have ideas?

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OscarCP, Slowpoke47

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DrBonzo: Your recipe, isn’t it a good one for starting an endless loop?

Remove TS HDD unwilling to go when told; restart computer, plug in TS HDD to see if everything is OK in there; TS HDD does not want to go, …

I’m asking because this topic interest me as well.

Oops! This was meant as a reply to your comment before this one.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Slowpoke47

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It could start a loop, but I’m guessing that the real issue is a minor glitch that would be cleared with a restart. I don’t recall having any issues similar to Slowpoke47’s in Linux but it used to happen all the time in Vista, Win 7, and to a lesser extent, Win 8.1. The three strategies I used were to wait, restart, and pull the plug (so to speak). If, after waiting, I was in a hurry or needed to get things done, I’d pull the plug, otherwise I’d restart. The restart almost always worked although sometimes the shutdown part took longer than normal. I’ve never ruined a usb stick or hard hard drive by pulling the plug.

Of course, as I mentioned above, YMMV.

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Slowpoke47, OscarCP

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DrBonzo: Count also Macs as the computers with recalcitrant (“Time Machine”) external backup HDDs (and probably more than just these HDDs).

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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DrBonzo

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OP here- just finished a successful installation and backup with Veeam after a refresher look at the tutorial posted 3 years ago by Ascaris, link repeated here, as they say, “for your convenience” (and don’t get me started on that phrase)

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/a-step-by-step-illustrated-guide-to-using-veeam-to-back-up-to-an-external-hdd/#post-2012797

Back to my former practice of weekly backups on demand (not scheduled) to an external disk plugged in only while backing up, under my pillow when not in use.  With this system I know exactly what is saved.  Highly recommended!

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DrBonzo

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@Slowpoke
1) Did you re-install Mint 20.3? I thought I read on another forum that you just recently re-installed the Mint 20.3 OS.
2) Do you remember anything differently you did with the set up or the backup procedure of Veeam that could help other users that encounter the same problem?
3) Regarding your statement “With this system I know exactly what is saved. Highly recommended!” Have you ever done a complete restore of your system using Veeam and if yes were you happy with the results?
Note – I numbered my questions since, a lot of times when I post questions, some of my questions are overlooked and I am really interested in the answers to all of them.
Thanks

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Slowpoke47, DrBonzo

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1.  Yes, I went back to the beginning- new Mate 20.3 download, matched checksums, installed OS, ran w/o add-ons for a couple of days, all looked good- intent was to eliminate any possible errors in the original install.  Also installed another non-critical app before Veeam.
2.   No, in both cases I used Ascaris’ cited tutorial.  If you are precise in doing this, the result should be good.
3. I have not yet done a restore on this machine.  Since Veeam is now v.5.0 and the old pc has v.3.0, I need to find out if I need a new recovery medium.

It does seem to me that the first OS install on this machine must have been faulty.  Also- while Veeam is Terminal (CLI) based, the app walks you through both the install and subsequent operation with prompts on screen.  I am not CLI proficient but I find it easy to use this app.

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Sueska, DrBonzo

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@slowpoke Thank you for your answers and comments. Glad veeam is now working for you and good luck on other issues.

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Slowpoke47

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Created Veeam recovery media today.  Here’s what I did:

Download .iso file from Veeam site

Insert usb stick and locate entry in left panel of home folder.  Right click, select format, choose Ext4 or FAT.  To avoid errors, remove any other portable media.

Main menu>USB Image Writer:

Click left data field (“None”) to get home folder and navigate to downloaded iso file, select.  File will populate data field in USB Image Writer.

Click down arrow in right side data field.  Identifier of stick should appear. Click on that entry, then the “Write” text, lower right corner, will become active.  Click on it, sit back, and watch!

When it reports as finished, close window.  Back to home page, right click stick, click “eject.”  (Might need to use down arrow to see it.)  Label and save stick.

Haven’t tested this stick yet, back to it this week…

 

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DrBonzo

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