Backing up the family PCs

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We currently have 3 PC’s in the house: 1 desktop (for wife, both kids, and myself to use), 1 laptop for my wife when she was in grad school, and 1 laptop for me to do professional work and such when kids are doing homework on the desktop.

After having a hard drive crash and discovering that my DVD backups were worthless, I’ve decided to get an external hard drive to do backups on all three. I am wondering, should i partition it three ways, one partition for each set up backup files, images, etc. per PC, or will the Win 7 backup software make it easy for me to keep all three straight in the same partition?

Any and all input from the experts here (real or self-declared (;)) will be greatly appreciated.

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Hawkeye,

I’d just setup a separate folder for each set of backups or just use a naming convention such as DTYYYYMMDD, LT1YYYYMMDD, LT2YYYYMMDD. A lot depends on the Backup/Imaging software you are using and what it allows you to do in the way of placing your backups/images. For instance, I use Acronis True Image and I use a separate folder for each machine and a file name of YYYYMMDD and that keeps everything easy to find and reference. YMMV. :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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I’ll echo what RetiredGeek says. With the addition that you shouldn’t rely on one backup. Get a second drive and rotate them.

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I’ll echo what RetiredGeek says. With the addition that you shouldn’t rely on one backup. Get a second drive and rotate them.

Hey, I agree.
What’s more, just don’t forget do regular backup of your PCs. I recommend you try some softwares to do automatic backup weekly or monthly…Find an article about schedule backup, might help.

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I am wondering, should i partition it three ways, one partition for each set up backup files, images, etc. per PC, or will the Win 7 backup software make it easy for me to keep all three straight in the same partition?

Any and all input from the experts here (self-declared ) will be greatly appreciated.

hawkeye,
Hello… OK, I’m “Declaring”:lol: First let me say that your on the right track (wanting to do “Image” backups ) “Windows Backup ” is OK but it pales in comparison to a Free program in several ways. As i have stated in other threads about “Backups”. I find Windows Backup to be both “Clunky” and “Clumsy”. Do youself a big favor and forget Windows and download and install “Macrium Reflect Free” Macrium Reflect Free Make sure that you read the “help” and “burn” the “Linux Recovery Disk” If your curious about my statements just do a search on this forum about Macrium… Or post back with your questions and many will be able to help you get it all sorted out. Regards Fred

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…To add to the above, I would also want ensure that my backups are easily accessed and restored from a bootable disk of whatever imaging program you choose.
Once you are done backing up each of your computers, use the bootdisk and actually test each computer to ensure that you are able to access your backups.
You may even want to restore one of the backups to authenticate the procedure.

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I would also recommend either Acronis or Macrium and make one addition. The time it takes to restore from a Image is directly proportional to how long it’s been since the Image was created. For example if your Image is 6 months old, how long do you think it will take to reinstall all updates and new apps after restoring the Image. My recommendation is to create a new Image whenever you make a change to your PC’s. That way your Images are always Up To Date so the restoration will take less than 10 minutes.

Doing a search for either Macrium or Acronis will bring up many discussions on these 2 fine apps including Step by Step instructions for both.

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I’ve had bad luck with Acronis 2010 (and others have with 2011), tho those who use them in manual (i.e., unscheduled, clean up your own messes after yourself) seem happy. Macrium seems especially robust, and a new edition is just out, but I haven’t yet shelled out for the paid edition (they do have a “4 for the price of 2” family option). Another newer contender is EASEUS ToDo Backup Free v.2.5.1, which seems to offer free full & incremental scheduled image & file backups with automatic deletion after a set number of files. I’m beginning to try it out, but would like to hear other’s opinions.

Zig

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I’ve had bad luck with Acronis 2010 (and others have with 2011), tho those who use them in manual (i.e., unscheduled, clean up your own messes after yourself) seem happy. Macrium seems especially robust, and a new edition is just out, but I haven’t yet shelled out for the paid edition (they do have a “4 for the price of 2” family option). Another newer contender is EASEUS ToDo Backup Free v.2.5.1, which seems to offer free full & incremental scheduled image & file backups with automatic deletion after a set number of files. I’m beginning to try it out, but would like to hear other’s opinions.

Zig

For Zig’s info I stopped using Acronis after it let me down (in different situations) twice, and started using Easeus, which I’ve now been using for 18 months or so. I’ve had to use it to recover a disk twice (both times after Microsoft Updates, specifically Win 7 SP1, trashed my system) and both times it performed perfectly. The only negative is that twice on checking backups (I always do this after making an image copy) it has shown a fault, but a subsequent re-backup checked as ok. So for my money (or not, as it’s free) I can from experience recommend Easeus. I also use the separate folder system (and two external hard drives) for backing up, and take, and check, image backups regularly. Takes time, but has saved hours of frustration when things don’t go to plan (like SP1)
:;):

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Thanks for the great feedback and advice, everyone!

RetiredGeek: I was debating with partitions vs. folders and wasn’t sure what current software was capable of on an external disk like that, esp. with it being three different machines being used (one with Xp, the other 2 with Win 7 Home Premium). I’d perfer the ease of folders.

Doc Brown: My personal budget doesn’t allow for a second one yet. Will keep that in mind as soon as I am able.

Fred: Yes, I did a quick search in the forum and have seen your ‘Clunky’ review mentioned. I will look seriously at both programs everyone has listed as well as Win 7’s options and see which works best for me. Why the “Linux Recover Disk” if my PC’s are all Win-based, if I may ask?

Clint: Would creating a universally bootable thumbdrive work in that scenario or should I create a custom CD-ROm/DVD for each PC?

Ted: I was planning on doing the images no less than with every backup (monthly currently is the plan) or once a week to make sure I was up to date. Is that frequent enough or are you referring to after every new install, MS/Win update or Flash Player upgrade, etc. as well?

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Why the “Linux Recover Disk” if my PC’s are all Win-based, if I may ask?

You may indeed, and it is a good question. It is necessary to provide a ‘recovery environment’ which is separate from the hard disk on which Windows is installed, and geeky persons have found that using a bootable Linux disk is a good way of doing this. Macrium Reflect also allows a “Bart PE” boot disk (see the writeups on the website). You only need a single CD (for each, if you want the option of both environments), because all the data you have backed up from the Windows installation is entirely separate from the recovery environment.

I would also add as a third option the product Shadow Protect, which is mostly designed for businesses but has a desktop version. Not cheap, though. I have found it very valuable on two or three occasions, and it is the one I use.

BATcher

Plethora means a lot to me.

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Ted: I was planning on doing the images no less than with every backup (monthly currently is the plan) or once a week to make sure I was up to date. Is that frequent enough or are you referring to after every new install, MS/Win update or Flash Player upgrade, etc. as well?

I do my new Images whenever I make a change, either with an update, adding or removing apps, anything like that. Some do once per week, but I figure if no changes took place then no new Image is needed. I do backups of data separately to 2 other Pc’s, my wifes laptop and our desktop (used only for these backups now) and sense my data is contained in a separate partition on both our laptops, I feel very safe with this Imaging/backup scheme. The data backups do occur more often than Images.

I guess the final answer would be you do an Image as often as you think necessary to cut down on the restoration time frame if that becomes necessary. The more updates, upgrades, app changes, etc that occur between Images, the longer the restoration will take to allow all these changes to be reinstalled.

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Clint: Would creating a universally bootable thumbdrive work in that scenario or should I create a custom CD-ROm/DVD for each PC?

Good question, I think to some extent it would depend on the software you are using, but generally the boot disk should be limited to allowing you to access the
application’s proprietary imaging file(s). Aviod anything with a lot of excess bling or fluff and keep your regimen simple but fully functional.
I would make a single bootable USB stick and also a bootable CD/DVD disk, but only one of each should be necessary.

Also, watch out for some of these programs, some of them tend to give you way more options than you actually need. If your new to drive imaging, you’ll want to keep it simple and functional until you can informedly make up your own mind as to what you actually want in terms of extras and options.

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Thanks, gentlemen! That gives me the information I need to move forward.

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Why the “Linux Recover Disk” if my PC’s are all Win-based, if I may ask?

The reason for a “Linux Boot Disk” is if your machine won’t boot you can boot from the CD and run the Recovery program and you don’t need to know Linux as it will boot right into the program so you never really see Linux. Why Linux and not Windows? Simple it’s much easier to create a Linux boot disk that a Windows PE boot disk. :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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I figured there was a logical reason behind it. I figured I’d ask since others in addition to myself would wonder why…

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The reason for a “Linux Boot Disk” is if your machine won’t boot you can boot from the CD and run the Recovery program and you don’t need to know Linux as it will boot right into the program so you never really see Linux. Why Linux and not Windows? Simple it’s much easier to create a Linux boot disk that a Windows PE boot disk. :cheers:

But I’d say that it’s even easier to create a Windows System Repair Disk (from the Backup and Restore control panel). Kyhawkeye, you could have that in hand inside of 5 minutes from the time you read this, if you’ve got a blank CD-R or DVD-R on hand.

No, it won’t have a bunch of techie tools on it like a general-purpose Linux or Windows PE disk, but somehow it just doesn’t sound to me like that’s what kyhawkeye really needs (or wants to take the time to fool with).

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But I’d say that it’s even easier to create a Windows System Repair Disk (from the Backup and Restore control panel). Kyhawkeye, you could have that in hand inside of 5 minutes from the time you read this, if you’ve got a blank CD-R or DVD-R on hand.

bethel95,
Hello… The reason for the “burning” of the “LINUX” Recovery Disk is….. That the question applied to “Macrium Reflect Free” imaging software ….. (Nothing to do with the Clumsy and Clunky Windows backup) If your running “Windows” In most cases, The LINUX disk works from the “Geko”..with no fooling around… It also only takes about 5 minutes to make one. Just do a search on Macrium Reflect for more “info” :cheers:Regards Fred

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bethel95,
Hello… The reason for the “burning” of the “LINUX” Recovery Disk is….. That the question applied to “Macrium Reflect Free” imaging software ….. (Nothing to do with the Clumsy and Clunky Windows backup) If your running “Windows” In most cases, The LINUX disk works from the “Geko”..with no fooling around… It also only takes about 5 minutes to make one. Just do a search on Macrium Reflect for more “info” :cheers:Regards Fred

Assuming that you’ve obtained, installed, learned how to use, and have configured your backup job in Macrium Reflect–all of which takes a lot more than five minutes.

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Assuming that you’ve obtained, installed, learned how to use, and have configured your backup job in Macrium Reflect–all of which takes a lot more than five minutes.

bethel95,
Hello… The post is referring to “Burning” the LINUX “Recovery Disk”… Not doing anything else.:blink:Regards Fred

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On the recovery disk to use, I think you just need to use one that suits whatever software you will use for the backup. If you use Windows backup, use Windows / create rescue disk option to create a boot disk that will allow you access to all you need to do in case things go wrong.

If you go to a specific imaging software, it will have a way to create a boot disk too. In all cases I know, the boot disk is always linux based (except, of course, for the Windows 7 own rescue disk).

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I may have missed it in this thread, but if you are backing all your files up, and using 2 disks and rotating, I suggest that you take one offsite, i.e. take the drive to your office, or store it at your parents house, … (in my case I have a building that is 200 feet from my house where I store my backups.) This protects all your files if you have a house fire or other issue that destroys your computer(s). (if you are like many people, the backup drive will be in the same room with the computer.) This is really important if you have professional data that is required for your job or business.
mike.

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If storing images from 3 (or more) PC’s on one external drive the easiest way (IMHO) to identify is as follows:

Create folder and name as such :
MumsPc-21July-2011, KidsPC-21July-2011.

Then when setting up naming the actual image file name the same incase you happen to put image into wrong folder.

Also try and get into the habit of of doing an image [of each PC] at least once a month. Some folks might say overkill but if made BEFORE installing the likes of MS updates and they, as has been known, go wrong you can then revert back to the latest image (without the new updates).

I personally DO_NOT like incremental image updates as previous issues with restoration has usually happened with incremental images. I use Acronis [and have done for a long time] but am thinking of getting rid of it due to issues [as previously stated elsewhere] I have also reverted back to version 2010 as 2011 is not the easiest to figure out or use. As for WIn 7 choice, well for me this is a no-no as it does not give me complete control for location etc (specific folder) also the images tend to be a lot larger.

Finally (IMO) it is essential that the recovery disk is made for whichever program you decide to use. Make one recovery diskpen drive and this willshould do all your PC’s. With the Acronis disk I also put Disk Director which enables me to safely work with my partitions outside of windows which is one of the reasons that I have stuck with Acronis up until now. The latest version of Acronis allows you to convert Windows images to Acronis and vice-versa. Not tried the method as I would be a wee bit wary of things like that.

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An image is a great timesaver – use Paragon or Easeus if you don’t use Windows 7’s own backup program. Only Paragon and Easeus allowed me to boot to the backup CD. Sorry about the link, I’ve tested image programs extensively and will furnish the link via PM if anyone wishes.

Redundant backups take up a lot of space, maybe after one image you could use a good sync program for your important documents. Implementing a new partition plan to allow you to store your DVD backups and other large files on a partition separate from your OS would cut the need for backing those up more than once. And I’d suggest you not fall in love with any OS install, they are expendable.

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Getting a backup plan in place, especially after a crash, is very commendable and useful to say the least.
However it becomes very mundane and boring especially as you move an external drive around.
With 3 boxes, at the very least I like a network NAS with minimum of 2 drives to run RAID1 such as
the Buffalo DUO or one of the many similar NASes on the market.
The cost may not be much more than an external usb, with some shopping around.
They generally come with backup software such as Novastor in the case of the new Buffalo so you can
make an image and auto incremental backups.
Auto backups is instrumental in making backups worthwhile and up to date.
If you don’t like their offer of software you can choose one of your liking, but whatever you choose, it needs
to make a full image and auto backups.
Learn the software well, make an image and restore it to test it. Testing it when you need it is a great way to fail.
There are many other options you may find useful using this network setup, but sticking to backups this is the
bare minimum IMO.

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“Learn the software well, make an image and restore it to test it. Testing it when you need it is a great way to fail.”
Truer words have hardly been spoken.
Last year, on this board, someone made the same suggestion.
I tried the image-restore-test it drill and found my then-imaging software wouldn’t restore on my system.
After working with that vendor for weeks, and not having any of their “fixes” work, I switched vendors, and have been
happy since.

Because I like to “play around” and try things, I’ve had to recover an image 4 or 5 times since.
But that’s enough about me. Please follow the above-advice: take an image and try to recover before you really HAVE to.
Dick

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I assume you do not want to go through the process of setting up Windows Home Server for your household. That would be the most elegant way to back up everybody’s computers.

Second-best is what I do. I use dedicated external hard drives — one per computer, and one big hard drive to back up the backup drives (using partitions for the original backup drives). Backing up a backup drive means just copying or cloning all the drive’s contents (or all of the new content since the last backup) to a second drive or partition. Once set up, the process can be made very automatic, depending on your choice of backup programs. I do not recommend Windows Backup because it offers fewer recovery options than other programs.

Given that large external hard drives are relatively cheap, I think dedicated drives are completely appropriate.

I like using a backup program which has the option of burning a bootable recovery environment CD directly from the program. That way, even when Windows Safe Mode cannot be launched, there’s still a chance of getting a successful recovery from the external hard drives. Only the basic interface is loaded from the Rescue Media CD — all the rest resides on the external hard drives. I have recovered my laptops several times using these methods.

The backups themselves do not need to be bootable. You only need to be able to launch the rescue environment when Windows will not start up. If the rescue environment won’t work either, you probably have had a hardware failure, which would make system recovery no longer an option. That has never happened to me.

Even if the hard drive inside the computer has failed, the Rescue CD will usually boot. Then, using a new hard drive, some backup programs will allow you to restore to a new, clean hard drive. Windows Backup cannot do that.

That should cover all your bases, I think.

-- rc primak

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Something I didn’t see discussed in this thread is the possibility of having to alter the boot sequence if you ever need to actually restore an image. My old XP desktop checked the floppy drive and the optical drive for system discs before booting from the internal hard drive. When I had to restore one of my Win7 laptops a while back I was confronted by a boot sequence that checked the internal hard drive first. Consequently, in order to load the Rescue CD, I had to get into the BIOS and alter the boot sequence so the optical drive was first. Messing with the BIOS can be pretty scary. Selecting “Restore Defaults” when you’re finished can alter a manufacturer’s custom setting. Fortunately, I had a reference book that covered my version. I’d recommend testing your boot sequence and learning how to re-order it if your PC doesn’t check the optical drive first.

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DJG,

Many PCs, Dell for example, provide a key to press to get a boot device menu to allow you to select the boot device. On Dell’s it’s the F12 key. This way you don’t have to alter the BIOS settings. The prompt for this shows up down in the bottom right corner at boot along with the prompt for F2 to enter the BIOS. Check your documentation for details or Google your machine and “Boot Menu”. :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Another thing that makes me reluctant to leave Acronis is the secure zone which I have never found in other software I have tried.

The secure zone is a partition made by the Acronis TI program [you have to enable this facility]. If you allocate enough space for three images you can then have rolling image.

My preferred way of working with this is to make an image with just the basic windows set-up [no software of any sort. Just the windows which is activated before making image and as there is no security software installed yet I don’t go out onto the net to put MS updatespatches into it. A copy of which is also kept on my external HDD]

Second image made after installing all software required and personal preferences set.

Third image made every few weeks (7 – 8) or so, and after checking that this is working OK just delete the second image. This way the MS updates require are for only a couple of months.

By working this way I have a fresh basic installation to go back to, and a reasonably upto date image to restore in the event of an emergency whenif I cannot immediately lay my hands on my emergency CDDVD .

To access the SECURE ZONE you just press F11 at boot-up. This negates the need for the emergency CDDVD and is a good way of keeping availability of restoration if you have a NETBOOK [no need to hook up an external drive ]

I also make my usual image just prior to installing Win updates which is kept on both my external drive and a partition on my internal drive. If I update the program I make a new emergency disk just to be on the safe side as well. At any one time I usually have 3 -4 images which I can revert to. Overkill? Maybe. But I have spent too many hours on both my own PC’s, and other folks’, having to re-install the OS when thing go t***s up.

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Another thing that makes me reluctant to leave Acronis is the secure zone which I have never found in other software I have tried.

The secure zone is not a reliable backup destination for all types of issues you may have with your system. If your drive dies, secure zone will be of no use to recover from it. I have been using TI since version 8 and I never used secure zone precisely because of this. I had two drives dying on me since I started using TI and I was glad I had my images on an external backup.

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To access the SECURE ZONE you just press F11 at boot-up. This negates the need for the emergency CDDVD and is a good way of keeping availability of restoration if you have a NETBOOK [no need to hook up an external drive ]

Erniek

Hello…The Acronis “Secure Zone” Can be accessed from the F-11 Key as you have stated … Also, it can be accessed from within the program itself …It depends which version of “TI” you are using, whether you can manipulate the data contained in it…You should always have the “Recovery Disk” at hand …I also have “Acronis Recovery manager” activated … and have at times “trashed” my PC so you had to boot from the CD. You would be better served by forgetting about the “Secure Zone” and backing up to a internal or external separate hard drive. I have always found that the “SZ” was a pain and not worth the trouble.:cheers: Regards Fred

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We currently have 3 PC’s in the house: 1 desktop (for wife, both kids, and myself to use), 1 laptop for my wife when she was in grad school, and 1 laptop for me to do professional work and such when kids are doing homework on the desktop.

I’ve not seen anyone ask, so I will: What end result do you want to achieve? What’s most important to you?

If you’re most concerned about your data, then any answer that immediately gets you doing daily data backups of the computer(s) that has/have the data you’d be most unwilling to lose is the best answer. All the “optimal” backup schemes in the world won’t do you any good if you don’t implement them or use them often enough.

Where to store backups

Obviously,you’re worried about another hard drive crash, so backing up to an external hard drive is a good idea. I’m not so keen on the single, shared drive approach, as that sounds to me like a sure recipe for backups not getting done (because of the inconvenience of moving the drive around). I’ll take your word for it that you can’t afford three external drives (despite their ready availability for <$75 (see "1TB Seagate FreeAgent GoFlex Ultra-Portable Hard Drive $64.99+Free Ship to Store @Staples", for example).

I'm assuming, though, that you have a home network. Does your router have a USB port that supports NTFS-formatted external hard drives? If so, then backing up all three PCs over the network might be your best option with a single external drive. If you don't have such a router, perhaps check the local prices for one that does have that capability (and it may well also have better wireless performance than your current router).

Backing up data

As for backup schemes, if data is your primary concern, then Windows 7 Backup is a perfectly adequate file-by-file backup option (if all of your PCs are running Win 7–you weren't totally clear on that point). It's something you already own, and it's easy to set up a backup of your data files (ignore the option to create a system image at the same time–it's not going to give you what you need, for reasons I'll discuss later). I've been using Windows 7 Backup for about 9 months now, and have had no problems with it. If you go this route, just be sure that you have different system names for your three PCs, as Windows 7 Backup stores backup sets by system name on the target drive.

But is there something that would be easier to use? Granted, Windows 7 Backup (and all of the other backup software that's been recommended to you) gives you the option of "incremental" backups that both saves space and gives you the option of going back to recover older versions of a file. I used to consider to that capability absolutely imperative for a backup software tool–as an IT manager back in the day, the ability to recover not only current files but also older versions was essential. With Windows 7, I'm not so sure that I care anymore, however, as the "Restore Previous Versions" capability allows you to get to recover a file's previous versions without having to use any backup/restore software (if you're a Windows Secrets paid subscriber, you can read Fred Langa's article on this; you can also review the Lounge discussion of his article; if following the basic advice reveals that Previous Versions isn't working on the data folders of any of your PCs, see my Lounge post for troubleshooting tips).

So what would be "good enough" if you don't need a data backup to recover historical versions, but you still want a "current version" backup on an external drive (so that you can grab 'n go in the event of an emergency, or even store offsite)? Well, anything that backs up your data to standard Windows folders and files (rather than to a special-format "backup set") would be the easiest to use for recovering the current version of a file. Backup software can do this on a daily basis, but you're still at risk for any files created or greatly modified in between backups.

For these reasons, I recommend file synchronization utilities over file backup utilities for use with external drives, as they save readable files and can back up a newly-created or changed file immediately after a "save" operation! I use GoodSync to back up my data files to an external hard drive (and actually use two hard drives, with one being stored offsite, rotating every week or so). There are other file sync utilities out there that would work (including, I would imagine, some free ones); like backup software, they require a certain commitment to learn and set up. Once that's done, however, they just work (though swapping two hard drives in an out like I do introduces an extra level of complexity that some sync utilities may not handle elegantly, if at all).

Again, the advantage of using file sync software is that the backups are viewable in Windows Explorer, so you don't need to run a "recover" process to get to your backed-up files. This also means that you can access your backed-up files on any computer that can read an NTFS-formatted drive (which would be any PC running Windows NT or later version)–you won't need any backup and restore software to access your data in an emergency (such as a major hardware failure or a disaster that destroys all of your PCs.

So why do I also use Windows 7 Backup? I have a 1TB internal drive that I use just for backups, and I set up Windows Backups to save to that drive before I learned about Previous Versions. If I ever decide that I no longer need this internal data backup, (such as when I need more drive space for primary data), then I may just turn that backup off and rely on my external sync'd backup alone.

Backing up Windows & applications

But all of the above was based on your wanting to have data backups. How about system backups? Well, that's what image backups are best used for (and yes, I know that you can recover your data from image backups–I've used Acronis True Image Home in the past for that very purpose). Unlike data, systems need to be restored at a sector level (rather than file level), so there's no point in making a file-by-file backup of your system folders. If you're worried about being able to recover from a Windows crash or a system hard drive crash, you'll need to have a bootable repair CD with your restore software on it and a copy of the system image on a separate drive (probably a hard drive) that can be seen within the bootable environment; either a second internal drive or an external USB drive should work for this purpose on any Windows 7 PC.

What imaging software should you use? Well, there have been plenty of recommendations made in this thread. Despite the dislike/distrust of a number of the other posters for Windows 7's imaging utility, I've found that it works perfectly well, especially if all you're going to do is keep a copy of a stable system configuration (perhaps with updates after major patch installs or application installs). You see, what Windows uses to create a system image is the same service that creates the "shadow copies" that are used for restore points and Previous Versions, both of which work well in Windows 7.

But didn't I earlier say to not automatically create a system image as part of a Windows Backup job (assuming that you're even going to do that)? Yes, I did–the reason being that you'd quickly run out of space to store system images if you're doing daily backups, with the result that Windows would automatically make room for new images by deleting old ones (which will sooner or later delete the truly stable configuration that you'd really like to use for a system recovery). Since the average user really only needs the most recent stable configuration for a system recovery, manually creating the occasional system image (from Windows 7's Backup and Restore control panel–see the left pane) is quite good enough–automatically, regularly creating images is just overkill and needlessly adds to the complexity of the backup scheme for the average user (we "tech giants" have different needs ;)).

If you're wanting your system image to be part of your "grab 'n go" or offsite backup storage (and you might, in order to have copies of all your applications in the event that a disaster destroys your PCs and all original installation media), be sure to either create the system image on your external hard drive or copy it over manually (I do the latter, since my primary system image is on my internal backup hard drive). Be aware that system images can be quite large–you may want to keep only one image on your external drive, so as to not squeeze out your data backup.

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Bethel95:

As far as OS’s go, my laptop and the desktop are Win 7, my wife’s laptop is Win XP. Therefore my goal is to make it as simple a set-up as possible for all 3 PC’s. I’m leaning to starting with the native backup software on the first two. As for my wife, I may consider other software, as what has been recommended by others in the thread. That said, it may just be easier to use the same program for all three just to make it more simple to do and consistent.

I hadn’t thought of the wireless method, I may look into it. I’ll probably keep the drive with me in my briefcase for work so I always have it with me and it won’t always be at the house in case it burns to the ground, etc…

I read Mr. Langa’s article, hence my current actions to improve my back-up process and the questions it created for me. I haven’t etched in stone how I plan to totally implement yet, but I bought the external drive today and will start to experiment with my laptop tonight.

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.I’m assuming, though, that you have a home network. Does your router have a USB port that supports NTFS-formatted external hard drives? If so, then backing up all three PCs over the network might be your best option with a single external drive

Thanks Bethel for an AH HA! moment!

BJ

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kyhawkeye,

It depends on how large are your disks to backup, but even if only a few GB, wireless is bound to make a whole disk backup a very slow operation. I have a 811.n wireless network and I sure wouldn’t backup whole disks using it.
Some imaging apps, at least the one I use (Acronis TI) also allows you to browse any image through Windows Explorer, so it can hardly be said that a file sync app has that type of advantage over a imaging app.

Backup strategies are subject to never ending discussions and the issue is recurrent here. Each strategy is suitable or not, depending on your habits. I feel no need to image more than once a week. During the rest of the time, I synch the files I work with most between my laptop and my desktop, using Windows LIve Mesh.

I guess what will suit best will depend both on your habits and the tradeoff between risk and effort to backup. I think the very least is a periodic backup that allows you to restore your system with a minimum effort. How often that is depends. Just today someone wrote that a backup every 6 or 7 weeks was enough. As it is usually said here, YMMV.

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kyhawkeye,
It depends on how large are your disks to backup, but even if only a few GB, wireless is bound to make a whole disk backup a very slow operation. I have a 811.n wireless network and I sure wouldn’t backup whole disks using it.

I quite agree with Ruirib! I tried using Acronis 2010 Home to backup to a wired NAS and it was just way to slow. USB connected external drives are my preferred backup device. YMMV :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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I quite agree with Ruirib! I tried using Acronis 2010 Home to backup to a wired NAS and it was just way to slow. USB connected external drives are my preferred backup device. YMMV :cheers:

And this is where Gig networking comes in. Transferring data over a Gigabit network is actuall FASTER than an external USB hard drive…..

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And this is where Gig networking comes in. Transferring data over a Gigabit network is actuall FASTER than an external USB hard drive…..

Mercyh,

Yeah! I’ve been looking into moving up to GB networking but can’t quite decide how to do it as I had my house wired w/Cat5 when built in 2001. So unless I rip out the wiring and replace it w/5e or 6 I don’t know how much through put I’ll get by putting in a GB Router & Switches. :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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I would try it and see what you get. Most of what I see of legacy wiring is that the cable itself works fine. I do find that the terminations (plugs or jacks) can be problematic and you may need to replace some of them, but for the most part cable has not been a problem. Gig uses all 4 pairs of the Cat5e/Cat6 cable, while 100mb only uses 2 pairs. This makes it so you can get by with some faulty terminations on 100mb but with Gig it is no go. You can purchase dlink gig switches quite inexpensively and if you are lucky a tech friend may lend you one to try….

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Hey,
Find an article about Windows Server for Home users…

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And this is where Gig networking comes in. Transferring data over a Gigabit network is actuall FASTER than an external USB hard drive…..

It’s twice as fast in fact, based on raw speed. But you do need CAT-6 or 5e wiring. If the whole house is prewired, this could be an issue.

-- rc primak

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It depends on how large are your disks to backup, but even if only a few GB, wireless is bound to make a whole disk backup a very slow operation.

Remember, everyone, that what I’m really advocating (at least for kyhawkeye’s two Win 7 PCs) is a manual system image, copied once (or only on rare occasions) to the external hard drive, with the data backup being handled by file sync software (and if file versions aren’t an issue for the XP system, then it works for that, too, though third-party imaging software will be needed if he really cares about fooling with it for that old system).

The system image copies (which will be large) can be copied via direct USB connection (best speed, even if the greatest hassle; you’re only doing this once). The data file sync to a networked drive (if the router supports that) can be set up (at least, with GoodSync) to be continuous (on the hard-wire-connected desktop, unless you’re taking the drive to work with you) or daily (on the two WiFi-connected laptops). An initial sync could take a while (essentially copying all of your data to the external drive) but you could also just do that with a direct USB connection (using XCOPY at a command line) while transferring the system image. After the initial transfer, syncing over the network will only need to send over new or changed data files, which won’t take that long, even over WiFi (unless your signal is really weak).

kyhawkeye, I really don’t recommend your having to learn any “backup” software in this scenario, not even Microsoft’s. File sync software that will run on both XP and Win 7 is IMO your best bet (and may even be cheap, depending on what deals are floating around right now; I’m guessing that no free sync software will be robust enough for what you need, though I could be wrong about that). [I]Note: I just checked, and [url url="http://www.goodsync.com/php/pums/rfprepay.php?lang=en&lic=multi_goodsync#btop"]3 copies of GoodSync are currently on special for $53.85[/url].[/I]

One more thought, about your “take the drive to work” plan: That will be OK for the short run, but ultimately you’ll need a second external drive. You’re still vulnerable to disasters that happen while the single drive is at home, and unless it’s installed right next to your bed, I can’t recommend running off to grab it if what you need to be doing is evacuating your family from the house. Even with two drives, remember that the goal is for them to never both be in the same location for more than a minimal amount of time (i.e., having both at work all day or at home all night isn’t a good plan).

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While poking around the Goodsync web site for my last post, I came across a free download for GoodSync Explorer.

The site says that “GoodSync Explorer is a download/upload client and file manager that uses File System technology from GoodSync to work with files on local and remote servers.”

Not quite sure what that means, but it’s free and perhaps worth playing around with to find out. This is from the same company that also makes RoboForm, so they put out quality software, if that’s a concern.

Since we’ve been talking about backup/sync over a network, I figured that this is relevant enough to perhaps interest some of you (and if you do play with it, I’d sure like to know what it can do that plain old Windows Explorer can’t; I’ve downloaded it, but I’m too busy to test it right away).

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Same here, Ext HD, whether USB or whatever will be much quicker than NAS backup or Image. I use both Acronis 2010 and Acronis 2011.

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If you are considering extra hardware and purchasing more software I suggest you consider Windows Home Server. Although it is a very good backup solution it is very much more than just a backup solution. You can backup 10 PCs. Check out the features at the Microsoft page. It may cost somewhat more to get going but you get a lot more. You also get a solution that can last for 5 years or more and work with new Windows PCs when you replace hardware.

Joe

--Joe

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Two free tools that I use for syncing are RoboCopy and SyncToy, both FREE from Microsoft. I have a simple RoboCopy command in a batch file that syncs my entire Documents directory to a second internal drive with 2 clicks which I run every night before turning off the machine. I use SyncToy when ever I leave/return from being out and about for a while with the Laptop it syncs the entire Documents folder, across a wireless connection, quite quickly and this includes my Outlook.pst file which I’ve move to be in my Documents folder.

RoboCopy comand file:

Code:

Echo Off
REM  Updated: 10/27/10
Echo.  ——– Copying BEKDocs to V: drive ——-
Robocopy “G:BEKDocs” “V:BEKDocs” /MIR /XJD /R:5 /W:15 /MT:32 /V /NP /LOG:RoboCopy.log 
Echo.  ——– Copy Completed              ——-

Note the only required line is the one starting with Robocopy! :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Two free tools that I use for syncing are RoboCopy and SyncToy, both FREE from Microsoft. I have a simple RoboCopy command in a batch file that syncs my entire Documents directory to a second internal drive with 2 clicks which I run every night before turning off the machine. I use SyncToy when ever I leave/return from being out and about for a while with the Laptop it syncs the entire Documents folder…

Thanks, RetiredGeek–I had just heard about RoboCopy while researching my last post, so I was wondering how it could be best used. It would, at the least, be a better alternative to XCOPY for doing the initial copy of data files to an external hard drive, as I understand that it’s considerably faster.

Of additional interest is that there is a GUI front end for RoboCopy called RichCopy–you can find out more about it and download it here (on MS TechNet).

Finally, I have also used SyncToy (in fact, currently use it on my dad’s XP system). I didn’t mention it earlier, as I’m not sure how well it would work over a network connection (if at all). While certainly a free and useful program, I’ve found that it’s occasionally flukey–it doesn’t seem to have industrial-strength error trapping and handling, so sometimes I’ll check my dad’s computer and find out that something happened that’s kept SyncToy from backing up for over a week. Also, the user interface can get wonky, making it difficult to set up a job (it’s probably having trouble with the resolution of my dad’s GPU and monitor)–that’s even after repeatedly downloading a fresh copy, so I’m pretty sure it’s not a problem that’s going away. So while SyncToy works, it’s hard for me to recommend it to to a more casual user like kyhawkeye.

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I do successfully use Macrium to backup over 100mb networking using scheduling to run it at night. (not all my customers have switched to Gig) I find that it works much better if I set a maximum file size of 5gb. This makes a 25 gig image come out as 5 separate files…..

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