I now have a windows 7 Professional desktop. I’m thinking of purchasing the IMAC to avoid the windows 7 patches and avoid updating to Windows 10. I prefer desktops so the Chromebook is out. I don’t do gaming and use the computer mainly for email and Google/Firefox and Word. I think I would miss Microsoft Spider Solitaire — anything else I would miss?? Hoping to hear from you and your expertise. Thanks.
|
Patch reliability is unclear. Unless you have an immediate, pressing need to install a specific patch, don't do it. |
-
Apple IMAC
- This topic has 159 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 7 months ago by
.
AuthorViewing 46 reply threadsAuthor-
I would reconsider. Stop Microsoft updating of your Win7 machine. I have 130 client computers running Win7 with no updates since May 2017. Works just great.
Spider solitaire is available in many forms for many platforms.
And if you really want to avoid Win10 and NEED a new computer, you can still buy brand new Win7 machines from Dell. Just represent yourself as a business.
CT
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
You will find 10 people who disagree with me for every one. However, I am a guy with 50+ years in computers. I have been looking after 150 or so Windows computers for the last 16 years. These are NOT business computers.
A bit over a year ago, after so much frustration with the mess Microsoft has made, I decided that the risk of Microsoft ruining a perfectly good computer was 100 times greater than a hacker or virus doing anything like that. Not a single one of the 130 Win7 machines my clientelle use have had a single Microsoft update since May 2017. My workload has fallen off to less than half. Not a single event.
Every one has Bitdefender antivirus + (Not security)
They use Chrome browser
I have removed adobe flash, adobe reader and Java. None of these are needed with Chrome, and they are the most common vector used by hackers and virus.Most people have had decades of thinking that MS updating was critical. In the case of Win7 at this point in time, I think I have proven (at least to me and my clients) that that religious fervor about updating is nonsense.
CT
4 users thanked author for this post.
-
One more thing…
When you buy that new Dell PC with win7:
Either make certain the Intel processor is 5th gen or earlier
OR
Insist Dell provides you with a USB key with a Win7 installer on it with USB 3 drivers.The reason is that if you ever have to re-install, these options would become readily apparent.
CT
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
-
-
-
Peacelady: I can offer you only a non-techie definition:
A virtual machine (“VM”) is an application software, or in other words: a program, that runs on a Windows, Mac or some other type of machine, and allows one to use a different operating system (“OS”) by emulating it. For example, one could have a Windows machine and run Linux in it with a “for Windows” VM. And this VM software is implemented in such a way that, while using it, it looks and feels as if one were, in this example, actually using Linux. Except that things might run somewhat slower in that VM than they would if Linux were the actual OS of that machine.
This is an alternative to a dual-boot installation, as it only requires simply downloading and installing the VM like any other Windows program, and then the other OS on the VM in (I believe) the usual way, as on a “real” machine. It does, of course, require enough room in the hard disk and random access memory to accommodate the VM program and the OS to be run with it.
To me, at least, that is a less unnerving proposition than setting up dual-boot, which means directly or indirectly fiddling with the BIOS or UEFI system that, among other things, pulls in and starts the operating system at boot-up time. If that does not work, no boot up; no boot up, no session. If this cannot be sorted out: fancy doorstop. (Others here might have a less alarming take on this, but I am not so sure I would be too eager to go that way, even so.)
I really hope this clarifies more than confuses. Maybe others could explain this better?
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV -
-
-
-
I think it would be safer to do it the other way around. For example, run Windows 7 in a VM on a Linux Host. Ideally you would want your Host OS (the one actually installed on the hardware) to be as safe, robust, and reliable as possible. That means patched and secured!
Letting an end of life Windows be in charge of your hardware would mean taking a risk that if something were to happen to Windows, you would lose access to the stuff in your VM.
Opening files in an unpatched operating system could be inviting disaster. Plus you would need to leave networking enabled on the Windows host in order for the VM to have access to the network.
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
2 users thanked author for this post.
I have done a series of topics on Macs in the MacOS for Windows Wonks Forum. I put in lots of pictures! If you are in Macs, read through the topics there and start a topic in that Forum to answer your questions.
2 users thanked author for this post.
Peacelady,
From what you say, if you have the budget, I think you might like the Mac. It provides a good user experience, good security, less headaches than other solutions. But I would be in no rush to do that. I don’t think you should worry too much about Windows 7 patching. Plus, you might want to wait for processors manufacturers to better address the new side-channel vulnerabilities (Spectre/Meltdown related vulnerabilities) at a hardware level before investing in a new computer if the one you have is still good. I work on Windows 7 all day and patch group A after some delay and I will do that until 2020. Then I don’t know yet, but I am not happy with any solution for work.
I highly suggest you play with Linux in a VM so you could reuse your PC after 2020 and transform it into a Linux PC once support for Windows 7 stop. My aunt is happy on Linux Mint now after I installed it for her since she only had trouble with Windows 10.
The way you are using your computer, your risk is quite low, so I wouldn’t worry at all running Linux.
Canadian Tech approach is not without merit, the way he does it is probably not too unsafe for the type of user he has and for now. It might be a good fit for you because you have no important data to steal and you backup your data, if I understood well what you said. However, once Windows 7 support will disappear, it might not be sustainable for very long. On Windows XP, at some point, third-party browser support dropped and then you can’t say you are as safe at all. For me, I prefer to run patched, but be a bit more careful before applying the latest patches. It has worked well until now.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
The problems with patches are highly exagerated and 99.99% of the home users here can apply them safely from the second they are released, in particular for Windows 7.
The incremental loss of performance by itself it might be something a casual user might not notice. But layer on a few such patches and the old computer just feels unacceptable for use.
I’m starting to feel that Microsoft is not doing anyone any favors with their patches for older systems.
Never forget who built the vulnerabilities in originally.
-Noel
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
AlexEiffel,
Thank you so very much for your informative input. I am researching Linux, please see this link
https://itsfoss.com/best-linux-beginners/. They also recommend Linux Mint highly for beginners. It seems like it’s a little better choice than Ubuntu?I highly suggest you play with Linux in a VM so you could reuse your PC after 2020 and transform it into a Linux PC once support for Windows 7 stop.
Regarding this, please forgive my ignorance – do you mean that after 2020 I can “delete” the windows 7 part and use Linux as my computer (not “virtually”)?
You are giving me much to think about and I greatly appreciate your input. And as you suggest, I can put off buying an Apple for awhile.1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Yes, opinions might vary, but right now Ubuntu is going back to a different desktop after the failure of Unity, so they are in between in terms of maturity of the desktop.
I think you should try Mint and not look any further. Once you get more familiar with Linux, you might have other opinions, but I think Mint is a very good choice because the current release is polished, elegant and very simple. Everything you want to get familiar with an OS.
It is not mandatory at all, but you might want to check things like the following after installation:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/mint-cinnamon-first
https://itsfoss.com/things-to-do-after-installing-linux-mint-18/
https://www.ubuntupit.com/top-10-best-things-installing-linux-mint-18-3-sylvia/
https://www.neowin.net/news/ten-things-to-do-after-installing-linux-mint-183
But right now, I suggest just install a VM software like Virtualbox (I don’t know which one is the simplest to use), install Linux Mint in it and just try it. Later if you enjoy it, you can worry about tuning it. However, the links I provided show you how to easily install software, and discuss some favorite software, so it might be useful to look at it even if you don’t do everything there.
A lot of free software are great on Linux and Windows. Inkscape to draw (Illustrator replacement), Gimp as a Photoshop replacement, LibreOffice to replace Office… I know at least LibreOffice comes preinstalled on Mint.
Please keep in mind Linux might be slower in a VM, so it might not represent the real experience you would get if you install it directly on your computer. See it as something to experience without risk to give you an idea. Cinammon is the most used and prettiest desktop I think, but I installed Xcfe for my aunt because she had a very slow PC. Surprisingly, it ran quite fast, much faster than Windows 10 and it wasn’t ugly at all.
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/mint
Lot’s of good advice here. Thought I’d toss in my 2 cents worth as someone whose great majority of computing experience has been with MS operating systems going all the way back to DOS 3.0. Despite that, I’d classify myself as a non-techie.
Last summer (2017) when the BSOD scare hit a bunch of WIN 7 computers I decided I needed to have a plan B. (I was and still am running Win 7 SP1 Pro x64 on a 5th generation Core i3 Dell laptop.)
To me, it all comes down to “time is money”. You either pay your $1200 (or more) for an iMAC, or work your way through installing some version of Linux. I did both and here’s a brief summary of things.
With the iMAC you get a worry-free, hassle-free, turn-key system that’s easy to use, pretty intuitive, and will do anything a Windows computer will do. There will be a bit of a learning curve since you won’t necessarily be able to use all the same programs you did with Windows. But updates will be seamless, and your health will improve since there will be no high blood pressure, white knuckles, ulcers, strokes, … well you get the idea. True, they tend to be expensive but there’s no time spent trying to figure out whether you’ll get a “stop error” due to SIMD/SSE2 non-support, etc.
I would highly recommend the iMAC option. The other thing you will enjoy is that Apple will treat you as if they genuinely appreciate your business and value you as a customer.
For Linux I chose Ubuntu, for no particularly good reason other than that it was popular. While its not hard to get a working computer running, going beyond the standard installation was hard for me. Much of the problem is the completely new jargon and most help sites rely almost exclusively on command line methods which can be difficult. I found peripherals very difficult to deal with. So, in short, you’ll spend the equivalent of a lot of money in time spent trying to figure things out. I’m sure that once you get past a certain point on the learning curve, things simplify, but I’m not there yet. It does seem that Linux Mint would be a better choice from what several posters on Ask Woody have said.
Unless you enjoy getting computers set up I would shy away from Linux. It does, however, make a cheap computer to use for internet and email and other basic uses, if per chance your main computer heads south. I believe you (peacelady) said you had a techie grandson. So in your case that could be ideal – a cheap computer that he sets up and maintains for you. I will say that as far as maintenance, the update experience is also very seamless and conducive to one’s health. Really makes you wonder why a free operating system can pull off seamless updates when MS can’t.
Anyway, that’s been my experience. I intend to try and keep WIN 7 machines going until January 2020 but in the meantime probably get another MAC (probably a MacBook) and also try out Mint just to have an alternative. Then, it’s adios MS.
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
I would like to add to DrBonzo’s comments that with a Mac (mine is a MacPro Book laptop, a type of machine I have always favored, because I can use it just as easily at my home office desk, or anywhere else I may need it, or even in bed, when the spirit moves me) one can install and use most of the Linux software available for free from the GNU, SourceForge and similar developers’ sites. For example, for making rather fancy technical plots and graphs of mathematical functions about as well as can be done using some pricey commercial software. It can run applications that allow easy access to Web services such as MacPort, for automatically downloading such software from wherever it might be and installing it with a minimum of fuss.
And it has a command line, accessible through its own “Terminal” application, that is pretty much the same as the Linux and Unix ones, with the standard commands with their usual options (cp, mv, rm, tail, tee, grep, sed, awk… ) As well as the usual kind of scripting (the default shell is BASH.)
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV2 users thanked author for this post.
The Apple IMAC is looking more and more appealing to me as an average computer user who is more comfortable with something up and running as opposed to setting up a Linux virtual machine. Also, it totally gets rid of Microsoft Windows which is my goal. My email is GMail. I currently have my GMail account set up on Outlook 2013. I’ve been researching Apple Mail. It looks pretty good. What is your opinion of putting my Gmail account on Apple Mail? I like the idea of also putting email on a client that does not rely on the internet as a backup in case the internet fails me. Any opinions on Apple Mail would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Two step auth is for on-line email like G-mail. Thunderbird is a local client that downloads the mail to your PC (like Outlook).
Thunderbird is similar to Outlook. It is Windows and Mac compatible – so it works on all my machines and I can transfer email, contacts, etc by copying the files from one to the other (like the .pst file in Outlook). If you use Outlook, you will find it familiar – with differences like “write” vs “compose,” “get messages” vs “receive” etc.
4 users thanked author for this post.
-
I’ve been using Thunderbird for years. It is open source, and I’ve always been able to find answers about how to set it up or use it… and they provide articles within their support page like “implications of allowing remote content”, wanting their users to have choices, and to be knowledgeable about what those choices entail. I do access several e-mail accounts, from different e-mail providers, and store e-mails locally. You can add Lightning, for a Calendar. You can access news groups and feeds, and it has a chat feature (not my thing, but it is there). They take security and privacy seriously and aren’t harvesting data. By default they block remote content in messages. It did take me a while after one update, when they decided Askwoody e-mails were spam, but I was able to easily access them and then train (mark) as not junk… That is really the only problem I’ve ever had with it… and that wasn’t really a problem, once I figured out where the e-mails were going. In addition, I’ve set up family and friends with it, and never had to go back and fix anything. I really appreciate things that just work! Maybe its time for me to go make a donation… I use it day in and day out… and in this day and age I am really appreciating how solid and useful it is. Never a bad update (Microsoft, you hear that?).
Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter
3 users thanked author for this post.
I use Thunderbird for myself and all my users since the day it came out. I love this software. You can easily use it on any platform. It has gret search ability. You learn the keyboard shortcut for quick filter and use the a key to archive mail then it is very easy to never file anything but always quickly find an old email. I have hundreds of thousands of emails from before 2000 in there and it still search and perform beautifully.
Plus, Thunderbird don’t change much. It doesn’t need to. It works well and it doesn’t need more bloat. The only thing I don’t like is the poor Integration for Calendar with online accounts like using Google Calendar to send meeting invites. This needs love and it is annoying for business users who likes the meeting invites. I would like it to be able to easily synchronize contacts, calendars and the like with phones and online accounts. That might be a big deal to some. There is some support for that but it is bugged and nobody seems to address that. You can see threads going back more than 10 years ago about issues. If the Thunderbird team addressed this, it could become a more interesting solution for more businesses.
As for the Mac, I don’t know how many years of support they have for the OS before you can’t upgrade and if it is like the Iphone and you don’t get security updates after you are out or if they patch older OSes too. If I was going to switch OS today for work I would use Mac for better support, but if I was in your specific situation I think I would try Linux, especially if you don’t buy gadgets and other hardware which needs support. I like the idea of free software withot an agenda to make me constantly change stuff that works well. But if you buy the Imac, you can recycle the PC for Linux once you know you won’t need Windows for sure. It might be easier to dual boot 7 and Linux than on Windows 10 and its unpredictable breaking of the boot manager.
4 users thanked author for this post.
-
Support for macOS versions is for the time it takes for a third version to come out after the one now in one’s machine: three years from its date of issue, on average, as new versions appear roughly once a year. It is my understanding that such has been the case for a long time, until now.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
-
I have a 2011 MacBook Pro that came with Lion on it. I have upgraded from Lion, to Mountain Lion, to Mavericks, to Yosemite, to Sierra, and it is now running High Sierra. I suspect it will not upgrade to the next version later this year, but it will receive security updates for several more years. And it still is fast and the video is beautiful.
4 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
My iMAC was purchased in October, 2017, and I’ve only upgraded the OS once – from Sierra to High Sierra. But it was a revolutionary and revelationary experience. 70 minutes from start to finish. Best of all, except for some new features I couldn’t tell anything had happened; All my settings carried over exactly and all the programs still worked just the way I wanted them to. A painless, stress-free experience.
1 user thanked author for this post.
I don’t want to rain on the Apple parade, but does anyone out there know how or if Macs with Intel processors have been affected by Spectre/Meltdown? And What Apple has done about it?
One drawback to owning a Mac is that there doesn’t seem to be as much readily available information about security updates, etc. Maybe I just haven’t looked hard enough or maybe it’s that I’m still spending a lot of time trying to keep my WIN 7 machines running until 2020. What I’d really like to find is a site similar to our beloved Ask Woody site, but for Macs instead of Windows (not to take anything away from PKCano’s posts about the Mac OS)
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Apple has done some M/S security patching. But their patches seem to go through quality control because they just work. I have never had a bricked Mac. And when a problem is found it doesn’t take them 6 months to fix it like the Win7 NIC fiasco, or the 4-months of “we’re working on it” then the “working on” disappears like the SSE2. I TRUST Apple to patch when it’s possible and I don’t have to spend half my time looking for fixes. They just happen.
One of the problems with Microsoft/Windows is the unbelievable diversity in hardware that runs Windows. Apple knows EXACTLY what motherboards. processors, NICs, etc are in each of their products – every form factor, every year of manufacture. So they know what they are dealing with and it’s a limited variety. Microsoft, on the other hand, only knows what they put in the OS. And there are almost unlimited permutations and combinations of hardware they are “supposed” to deal with. It’s a wonder that it has worked as well as it has over the years, especially now that there is no quality control in the patching.
I was a computer geek, building, fixing, supporting Windows computers for many years. I have been in the Win10 Insiders Program since before Win10 was released (did for Win8 also) and have kept up with Windows through the versions of Win10. But I became a Mac user for the first time in 2011, and if it wasn’t for supporting AskWoody, I would have given up my association with Windows (for the most part) about the time Win10 came out.
Macs are SO less stressful. And my time of fighting MY computer is past. Now I use my Mac to help out here.
-
Hello PKCano. Hear Hear!! I understand you going to another OS and what you said. You seem to be saying what you feel and have seen as actual results. I get soooo tired of hearing people say, “you need to change os. Go to linux…” and the like. Every OS has its issues. EVERY one. The one thing some people do not like about MACs are they seem proprietary. But in being “restrictive” Apple knows exactly what hardware is in use and there are less surprises to cause a crash. MAC has updates too. MACs can have a faulty update, but they will fix it. EOL for MAC is shorter and more definite than MS. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8064976
With linux there are hundreds of distributions. If you pick one, then you need to find a friend that has the same one and will help you. I have seen and been around linux users for decades and even have some distros ourselves, yet every person feels their distro is the best. If you have 10 linux users you have about 7 differing distros. I have seen this first hand. They could not help the other person in need since it wasn’t their distro they had themselves. People using linux had the same update issues like windows is accused of, loosing data or a home directory and having to reinstall the os. This was from a friend that lives linux.
I live with windows 7 and I am happy. But we do have MACs too.
Thanks to you, other MVPs and askwoody, I can see what is happening with the windows updates for a given patch tuesday. I do not plan to go to windows 10. I have old computers STILL IN USE that are windows 95 and up. No problems. But, there are limitations on what the older OSs can do and how high a program version one can go to. So yes, there are limitations.
If the PC does the job you need then keep it. It is can not, then you need to make a decision.
1 user thanked author for this post.
Apple has done some M/S security patching. But their patches seem to go through quality control because they just work. I have never had a bricked Mac. And when a problem is found it doesn’t take them 6 months to fix it like the Win7 NIC fiasco, or the 4-months of “we’re working on it” then the “working on” disappears like the SSE2. I TRUST Apple to patch when it’s possible and I don’t have to spend half my time looking for fixes. They just happen. One of the problems with Microsoft/Windows is the unbelievable diversity in hardware that runs Windows. Apple knows EXACTLY what motherboards. processors, NICs, etc are in each of their products – every form factor, every year of manufacture. So they know what they are dealing with and it’s a limited variety. Microsoft, on the other hand, only knows what they put in the OS. And there are almost unlimited permutations and combinations of hardware they are “supposed” to deal with. It’s a wonder that it has worked as well as it has over the years, especially now that there is no quality control in the patching. I was a computer geek, building, fixing, supporting Windows computers for many years. I have been in the Win10 Insiders Program since before Win10 was released (did for Win8 also) and have kept up with Windows through the versions of Win10. But I became a Mac user for the first time in 2011, and if it wasn’t for supporting AskWoody, I would have given up my association with Windows (for the most part) about the time Win10 came out. Macs are SO less stressful. And my time of fighting MY computer is past. Now I use my Mac to help out here.
Well said! 🙂
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
The fact that Apple makes both the hardware and the software that runs on it (by itself and with its licensed developers) has for users the advantages PKCano has pointed out (#199452), but also a significant disadvantage: programmed obsolescence. A machine like PK’s, that will be 8 – 9 years old at its Apple-appointed EOL in 2020, is also going to be a fairly venerable piece of equipment by then, for a PC. However, if it is running well and one is happy with it, could one then have at least one of these two options?
(1) Reformat the disk and install Linux or some other OS one might want to run on that machine instead of macOS.
(2) Keep the Mac with its last macOS, and install a virtual machine running a different OS that will have, at that point, many years’ (or indefinite) support ahead (perhaps some tasty flavor of Linux) and use it for things no longer available with the old macOS, as well as the now riskier ones to do without recent macOS patching, such as Web browsing and email, while still being able to use the old macOS when possible, safe and convenient.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV-
Option #1 would be up to Apple, and at this point I don’t believe is supported. Maybe someone has hacked one, but it’s more common to attempt installing MacOS on a Windows PC aka “Hackintosh”.
Option #2 would not be recommended. You want to run your currently supported OS directly on the hardware.
I get the obsolescence part, especially because I experienced the Mac Mini I purchased for my Dad hit the end of life wall. One day his bank would no longer let him sign on online due to an out of date browser. Couldn’t update the browser due to out of date OS. Couldn’t update OS due to out of date hardware. Solved that one quickly with a new ChromeBox!
But in reality, all computer hardware has a finite life span. It is only an illusion that we can keep a computer running forever, like an old car, just by replacing parts.
Businesses understand this, and expect the computer hardware they buy to be serviceable for “x” years. They depreciate their capital investment in those computers for “x” years on their books, then replace them.
Operating systems can only be updated and maintained by vendors for so long, before it becomes an excessive cost burden, with no return. By the time there is projected to be a minority of users on the old software, then it’s bye bye. Nothing personal, just business!
The fact that home users can extend and pretend is strictly up to them. Assumption of risk and all that, but it’s not realistic to expect support for a lifetime.
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
-
JohnW: “Option #2 would not be recommended. You want to run your currently supported OS directly on the hardware.”
Quite. But even so, one might want to keep on using the old machine for a number of reasons, some practical, some sentimental, depending on one’s situation and inclination, even after buying a new one. Given that, how bad can #2 be?
As to expecting support for ever: of course nobody could ask for eternal support from any kind of human enterprise, even for a “perpetual care” grave in a cemetery. But keeping something that still works going? Why not, if one is prepared to accept that inconvenient things may happen now and then?
Not for lack of money to buy a new one, but because of convenience, I have a 30-year old car that still runs very nicely thanks to the services of a series of good mechanics and my willingness to keep paying for its regular annual maintenance and extremely occasional out-of-series repair. It is nimble and small enough to park in tight spots; being a hatchback it allows me to carry fairly large objects without difficulty or complaint. Plus it does not look great from outside, which is a better deterrent to thieves than the noisy car alarm it does not have — sparing me the need to decide precisely what to do when it starts blaring away in dead of night, something it fortunately cannot do. In short: the car as metaphor for old but still useful things. Like some people I know.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV -
Agree that option #2 with an old MacOS would be less risky than an old Windows. 🙂
MacOS is actually a qualified Unix OS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix
Windows is not. Even Linux is only Unix-like.
Hint: I’m actually an old mainframe computer geek (back in the 70’s), from before the personal computer and interwebs days… 🙂
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
-
Learned BASIC on paper tape. My first COBOL class was all punch cards. Ugh.
Punch up program on 80 column cards. Submit to computer lab for compile and run. Wait hours for printout. Fix errors. Re-punch. Submit to lab again. Rinse and repeat. 😉
Cannot compare that to the modern developer IDE, for the C or Java based languages, or the new interpreted languages. Took a class in Python a few years ago, and using a modern interpreted language that you can manipulate at brain speed without a compiler is world changing! Huge productivity booster!
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
-
That says to me that you two must also be like those some people I know.
By the way: my first personal encounter with a computer was with a PDP 8, which I had to program in assembly and punch the code in paper-tape rolls that will occasionally escape my hands and run across the floor of a very large room unspooling as they went. So: there!
High tech, those days, could be fun, in a funny way, couldn’t it?
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV -
You know, regardless of the issues we face with modern computing, I will take what we have. What we have now is like flying cars, compared to the horse and buggy, LOL!!!
For comparison, just look at the computer tech that the Apollo moon missions had: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
Or the space shuttle …
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
-
-
-
Option #1 would be up to Apple, and at this point I don’t believe is supported.
MacOS that the device is capable of running would be unsupported too at that point, so you gotta do what you gotta do.
I know people have run Linux on Macs, bare metal, so it can be done, though I don’t know what it would take. It probably doesn’t get done so often since the entire point of Macs is MacOS, so once that isn’t an option anymore, people probably move on to a new Mac rather than treat their Mac hardware as a normal, non-Apple PC (which is what it would amount to if not for MacOS). Some of them may attempt to hack the new version of MacOS to make it work on their older hardware… I read something about that yesterday. That might be an option if it works.
I get the obsolescence part, especially because I experienced the Mac Mini I purchased for my Dad hit the end of life wall. One day his bank would no longer let him sign on online due to an out of date browser.
Grr… I hate that kind of thing. My bank merely complains, but doesn’t lock me out (I use Firefox 52 ESR because that very same bank uses Java for its check deposit system, and I have to use something that old for Java to work. Then they complain that my browser is too old!)
He was probably safer with an out-of-date Mac browser than a typical Windows user with an up-to-date one.
I would have suggested he get an addon or change a setting to spoof the useragent string, if such things were possible with the browser (guessing that would be Safari, in this case; I have no idea what is possible with it, having never used it). If neither was possible, I’d get Firefox, Chrome, or some other browser.
Artificial obsolescence really bugs me. If the computer genuinely won’t do what you want it to do anymore, that’s one thing, but if the hardware still works but isn’t any good because the OS support is gone… that’s a problem for me.
Apple’s 8-9 years isn’t terrible, especially in this era where phones and tablets often get far less than that, but it’s not spectacular either. One of my daily go-to PCs is 10 years old (Asus Core 2 Duo laptop), and given how well it runs Linux and Windows 8.1, I’d say it’s got a good number of useful years left in it before it becomes too slow to be of any practical use. It’s much faster than my 2017-manufactured Dell laptop! My guess is that it will still be ticking (and useful) when Windows 8.1 slips into oblivion in 2023.
I’d hate to have to discard a good-running, useful PC! Wait, let me amend that… I won’t discard a good-running PC. I’d hate to not be able to use it!
We just had a thread where people were discussing Windows 7 on Pentium III CPUs, whose newest variant (Tualatin) was released in 2001, some 17 years ago. That’s coming to an end now, with technical changes that render the PIII incompatible with all supported versions of Windows for the first time in the life of that CPU, but wow, what a long run THAT was!
Much to the chagrin of hardware vendors, this pattern looks to continue for years to come. CPUs that are the better part of a decade old are only slightly slower than current offerings, and for many of us with older gear, there is little reason to upgrade (particularly in the Windows world, where newer means an embargo on drivers for Windows other than 10). My Sandy i5 is still very quick, despite the platform (Cougar Point PCH) being more than seven years old.
I guess that this is just another way that Macs are more expensive than Windows PCs. If you want to keep using MacOS, you will have to buy hardware again a little sooner. My guess is that a lot of people don’t even get to the end of the line; they just buy new after a while just because it’s what they expect to do. If the other choice is to be part of the Windows 10 rolling disaster, I’d take the slightly shorter supported life of the Mac. I like troubleshooting and sorting problems out, and even with that being so, I won’t touch Windows 10 as it is now.
Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11) -
I get the obsolescence part, especially because I experienced the Mac Mini I purchased for my Dad hit the end of life wall. One day his bank would no longer let him sign on online due to an out of date browser.
Grr… I hate that kind of thing. My bank merely complains, but doesn’t lock me out (I use Firefox 52 ESR because that very same bank uses Java for its check deposit system, and I have to use something that old for Java to work. Then they complain that my browser is too old!) He was probably safer with an out-of-date Mac browser than a typical Windows user with an up-to-date one. I would have suggested he get an addon or change a setting to spoof the useragent string, if such things were possible with the browser (guessing that would be Safari, in this case; I have no idea what is possible with it, having never used it). If neither was possible, I’d get Firefox, Chrome, or some other browser. Artificial obsolescence really bugs me. If the computer genuinely won’t do what you want it to do anymore, that’s one thing, but if the hardware still works but isn’t any good because the OS support is gone… that’s a problem for me.
That was an Apple Mac mini from Nov 2008 ($601.25), that needed replacing in Dec 2015. So got 7 years from that one.
Dad was using Safari, but I looked into alternate browser he could easily use, like Firefox and Chrome. They both had stopped supporting this mac version as well. I think it was an early version of 10.5.x something.
Unfortunately, at 85+ he was not very computer literate, and by this point only used a web browser to look things up or bank online. So no getting him to spoof useragent, LOL! And since he lived several states away, no casual dropping in to fix it myself.
His requirements now were simple, no printing, no saving files locally any more. A ChromeBook or netbook would have been all that was required, but he needed a big monitor for his eyes. Using a Mac Mini or a ChromeBox connected to his monitor, along with his standard desktop USB mouse and keyboard worked out best for him. So I went with an inexpensive ($162.78) Asus ChromeBox as a drop in replacement for the Mac mini. Basically the same form factor, but a bit smaller. Drop shipped it and talked him over the phone through swapping the cables. Power on, all good. Launch browser and go!
So $601.25 + $162.78 = $764.03 spent on computers over the past 10 years. Not bad at all as computer budgets go. And the ChromeBox still has plenty of legs left! 🙂
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
-
Running a Mac is a lot less risky than running Windows to begin with (malware and patches). And I am already running XP, Win7, Win8.1, Win10 1703, Win10 1709, Win10 1803 and Insider Preview in VMs on my Macs. I know when the Mac’s OS will be EOL – no “working on it then not working on it” surprises. And I can’t imagine MacOS being more risky than Windows after EOL when it is less risky before EOL.
I dabbled with Linux at one time. I find that Linux has the same problem as Windows. They know what’s in the OS, but they have the same diversity of hardware to deal with. I kept having to look for drivers and finagle for things to work. I am at a point where I just want it to work and not have to worry about it. Macs satisfy that.
Linux has another problem that is holding it back. It could be/could have been THE replacement for Windows. But it’s like I used to be about my computers – I had to pick what I wanted, and my combination had to be better/different than anyone else’s. Linux’s problem is forking – everybody has to do it his own way, like this distro better than that distro…. Just read the conversations that go on here. If Linux developers would combine their forces they could take the computer world by storm. But it seems no one wants to give up their individuality. And IMHO, as long as the efforts are so diverse, it won’t/can’t become the “next Windows.”
</rant off>
-
I had the same issues with Ubuntu. Doing a basic installation wasn’t so bad, and I even managed to install Opera and a firewall. But, anything beyond that was a royal headache. The old HP laptop I installed it on has a physical switch to turn wireless on/off. The switch went south in the off position so I went to Office Depot and bought a wireless dongle advertised to be compatible with Ubuntu. Well, in order to get the drivers I was instructed to go to 2 different repositories, from which I was to download a total of three tarballs, unpack and extract a portion of each, combine them, compile the combination and finally “install”.
I returned it to Office Depot. I finally found a Panda Wireless dongle advertised as true plug and play. Amazingly, it really was and works flawlessly. But I just don’t have that kind of time to spend figuring that stuff out. And I’m not a techie so I don’t really enjoy doing that, either.
So, I just don’t see it as a “daily driver” computer. I do like that it’s free, secure, and it does give me some peace of mind that I have a stop-gap computer in case my main ones go south. I also like that I could run it off a USB stick in ‘live’ mode and be pretty secure while travelling (I think, although I’ve never done it).
-
First, I must point out that I have used Linux many times, but never had to actually install or take care of maintaining and updating it, unlike PKCano.
That being so, I wonder in what actual use of Linux the “original sin” (forking) PK describes is in need of redemption, and why. Could it be limited to home computers, or is it more general than that?
Linux is used widely for scientific and engineering work, something I am familiar with, and believe it to be so also for financial and other activities. In fact, most of my professional colleagues, here and abroad, particularly in Europe, run Linux on their machines, some run Macs, and very few run Windows — unless they work in some place where that is the only dish in the menu. Linux is run on workstations, PCs, servers (single or in large farms), even supercomputers. Perhaps that is so because most people in charge of those machines only install Linux from a small subset of all the distros available, stay with the same one through the years, and mainly with the old trunk rather than the forking branches: Suse, Red Hat/Fedora/Mandrake… , Debian, Scientific Linux (supercomputers), and a few more? And this is not a rhetorical question.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV -
Using the same small set of distros in business/science works.
But I think the growing number of available distros is one of the things keeping Linux from replacing the Windows desktop in the consumer area. (Along with the relative unavailability in consumer outlets and other things). There is no focus. You have to “pursue” Linux, where Windows, and even Macs, are readily available.
-
My overall impression is that for an OS to become a successful commercial computing ecosystem, you need users and developers.
You could have the perfect operating system, but if you lack committed application developers and users of the applications, there will be no commercial mass adoption of the platform.
Just look at the recent failures of the competition for the mobile OS market against Android and iOS.
The fragmentation of the open source Linux ecosystem is surely working against popular mass adoption at the desktop level! No problem with the server, cloud, or supercomputer arenas, LOL! 🙂
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
-
JohnW (#199492) and PKCano (#199482),
I think you sum up quite well the present situation concerning Linux for the home and small business users, but that could change if Windows really starts to fade because of MS unfriendly policies towards such users. The, by now, deeply ingrained and overwhelmingly ubiquitous presence of Windows in the home and small business user markets, on the one hand, and the rather anarchic, if well intentioned and healthy reaction against proprietary commercial operating systems, led by the free software movement, on the other, are root causes of the present state of affairs being as you describe it.
That said, there is already what I understand to be the preeminent entry-level, user-friendly Linux distro with a substantial user base: Ubuntu. Mostly run now days as a dual-boot option with Windows (in VMs too, but those are mostly for those with the time and the inclination to fiddle with their machines).
Ubuntu is not the only Linux flavor that has gained a considerable number of users in recent years. But probably, if things develop so that many now using Windows start looking for alternatives that offer more computing power, or are less Cloud-based than, let’s say, Chromebooks, are prepared to pay more to get that, but prefer something cheaper and, or with more versatile hardware than Macs, then the best choice for them may well be to use one of a few of those more user-friendly Linux operating systems installed in PCs that are priced right for them. And computer manufacturers very likely will respond to this new situation by making more PCs that come with one of those OS pre-installed. From that point on, it is not unrealistic to expect that the market will sort out which Linux version(s) become(s )the predominant choice(s) of users, so application developers will write more and more for that(those) one(s), and the present situation will evolve towards one less confusing, easier to understand, with more versatile software, with better and more convenient technical support for the users, and so particularly attractive for those then looking around for a Windows alternative.
We are not there yet, but I think one can begin to see already the signs that point the way.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV -
Keep in mind also that Mint is a very close relative to its Ubuntu parent. Nearly all the tech info you read online that applies to Ubuntu also applies to the Mint versions derived from whatever Ubuntu version is being discussed. Mint has long been the go-to version of Linux to suggest to beginners, so between Mint and Ubuntu proper, you’ve got a pretty good chunk of the Linux world.
Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)
-
-
I kept having to look for drivers and finagle for things to work. I am at a point where I just want it to work and not have to worry about it. Macs satisfy that.
Macs come with the OS preinstalled and all set up for you out of the box. Linux machines preconfigured and supported by the manufacturer as such are rarer, but they do exist, and certainly there are lots of Windows machines that come that way. In the Windows 10 era, though, a Windows PC is just a can of worms, followed by another can of worms in six months, forever. Windows 7 is no picnic these days either, not anymore at least. Win 8.1 is the only one that hasn’t as yet seen the wrath of Microsoft, and of course, a lot of people wait with suspicion for the other shoe to drop.
I can’t any longer recommend Windows for any purpose, which is a real disappointment after having been a Windows user for 28 years and even an evangelist (XP era) for Windows. I also would not suggest Linux to average to low-skill users if they have to install it themselves, as it’s a question mark whether they will get an easy peasy installation where everything works right out of the box (as most of mine have been) or something else (which is always possible, and you never know which you will get until you try it). I wouldn’t suggest they try installing Windows either, for the same reasons.
During those XP days, though, it should have been as you describe (just working) by any OEM which was competent enough to get it set up in the first place, not to mention the Windows 7 era right up until the introduction of GWX. I used XP for about a dozen years, and it worked really, really well for me. If I just ran any given computer as it came out of the box, it would keep working without me ever having to look for drivers, because it came with all the ones it needed. That was how it was for my desktop PC with XP and the laptop I am using now to write this, which both ran XP without issue for many years, though neither of them came with XP preinstalled.
Other than the initial setup, which only applies when you don’t use the OS the computer came with, looking for drivers was only necessary when I changed hardware (and the sky was the limit; in the Mac desktop world, people have to pick and choose their upgrades carefully, since only select ones have Mac drivers, and the laptops aren’t upgradeable at all that I know of).
Right now there’s a big thread over on The Register about how Apple finally admitted their butterfly keyboards in certain Mac laptops were defective, and they will reimburse (some) people who have paid a small fortune to get them repaired (but no word of a redesign and recall yet, which seems to be what is called for). These keyboards have very short key travel, and they can fail if the tiniest piece of debris gets into the mechanism– and Apple until now has refused to support them adequately. The keyboards are riveted to the case, so it takes major surgery ($400 worth) to replace a keyboard that fails very easily and quickly (and it will almost certainly just happen again). In contrast, replacing keyboards on my Windows laptops (after they wore out from years of heavy use) was fast and cheap. There are a ton of people there posting that after that and other Apple shenanigans, they no longer trust Apple, and are looking to ditch their Apple hardware. (And go where?)
In their case, it’s about faulty hardware, while the OS is the “star” of the show. It’s the OS that defines it as being a Mac, after all. In the Windows world, it’s the OS that is the problem. The hardware, of course, can be anything you want. You have thousands of choices… if one laptop has a known failure-prone keyboard, you can pick from many other laptops that are otherwise functionally equivalent. If the Mac hardware is faulty and Apple isn’t being nice about its support obligation, you have no other choice but to deal with them if you want to stay in MacOS. One source of hardware, with one source of support. And Apple knows it!
I don’t like many of the design decisions of Mac laptops. I like discrete buttons on my touchpad, indicator lights for everything (wireless on, bluetooth on, hard drive access, etc), and I don’t like dongles. I also don’t like devices where it costs $400 to replace a keyboard or where the battery is bonded with very strong glue to the case, to the point that trying to separate it bends the case and ruins it. I like cases that I can open and components I can replace with simple hand tools and a couple of minutes.
That “trash can” looking MacPro desktop also had its issues.
If I wanted to get into the MacOS world, I would have no choice but to accept Apple’s way of designing (and pricing) hardware. I might try MacOS if Apple offered it as a standalone product (for my own hardware), but then it would be the same issue you’re talking about… no way to ensure it works on everything, so there are going to be issues, and that’s not how Apple does things. Still, I’d rather deal with that than have to accept what I consider to be inferior hardware.
As it stands, Linux works beautifully on all of my hardware. I’ve yet to fail to get anything working perfectly with Linux… not to say it would never happen, but thus far, it hasn’t, on PCs ranging from a 2005 HP/Compaq laptop with an AMD Turion CPU (single core) to a Kaby Lake i5 laptop with nVidia Optimus hybrid graphics. Once you’ve gotten it set up, it’s set up… it’s not like your hardware is going to change by itself. Things can get messed up, of course, but that’s true in any OS. Backups will help with that.
The one problem, if you can call it that, is that it does not natively run Windows-only software that a lot of people need, like Photoshop (or games, though I would not call that a “need,” per se). In terms of getting everything working, it’s been much easier than doing the same with Windows, which always has a bunch of problems shown in Device Manager right after a new installation.
Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)-
Ascaris,
True enough, the Achilles heel of Macs is their hardware. The first two Macs I ever used, from the late eighties/early nineties “IIx – IIf” era, both developed the same little problem: their motherboards shorted out and died. Lucky for me, they were owned by the US Government, so replacing them was not my problem. Down the years there have been other Mac moments worth remembering: burning/exploding lithium batteries and such.
However, going by the experience of colleagues, who all use Macs for work and at home, and have had the same ones for years, it seems that things are much better these days, although the laptop keyboard problem you point out is a nasty one indeed. For my part, being the sort of person I am, most likely if I ever happen to run into such a problem with my now one-year old laptop, I’ll probably just plug in an external keyboard to it and keep on typing.
My main objection to Macs, laptops in particular, is caused by the relentless pursuit by Apple of extreme coolness in looks and weight (at least for laptops). Which has been achieved at the price of removing anything that can add a milligram of extra weight to the laptop beyond what is absolutely essential to have there so it actually can work. Those things can still be used, but only as external peripherals, so more and more things have to be plugged in with each new model by way of dongles, particularly after Apple decided that USB was no longer cool and all external hardware has to come with Thunderbolt connectors so they can be plugged into Thunderbolt sockets.
But those are really minor gripes, as far as I am concerned. I like the fact that I can turn on the machine and it is up and running, ready for action, in seconds (thanks to its SSD hard disk, among other things), almost like a regular appliance. And that, so far, it has forced me to crash the system, by pressing the power key long enough, only twice in one whole year.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV -
I like the fact that I can turn on the machine and it is up and running, ready for action, in seconds (thanks to its SSD hard disk, among other things), almost like a regular appliance. And that, so far, it has forced me to crash the system, by pressing the power key long enough, only twice in one whole year
That’s how any computer should be (the reliability bit; the boot time is highly hardware dependent as you note, and there are certainly lots of Windows and Linux machines that work that way too). The fact that you would count that level of reliability as a point in favor of the Mac shows how far off the mark other computers/OSes must have been in your experience.
My Windows PCs have been quite reliable ever since the dawn of consumer-level Windows NT (Windows XP and later); while I have had more than two times I’ve had to reset things, I’m also heavily into modifying and changing things and taking all sorts of risks (knowing that I have backups; I am actually quite risk averse if I don’t have an undo button of sorts). I am nearly always able to find such a cause (something I did rather than something MS did) when Windows has malfunctioned on me, so all things considered, I would say that Windows XP, 7 (which I stopped using daily more than a year ago, before the recent crop of disastrous updates), and 8.1 have been excellent in reliability for me.
It’s a shame that reliability and stability are no longer important to Microsoft.
Linux, also, has been “just works” reliable since I’ve gotten it set up on my machines. My Dell laptop (which is my only Linux-only PC at the moment) sits there in standby (sleep) most of the time, but when I open the screen/lid, it always pops up the password dialog and resumes full functionality nearly instantly, day in and day out. If it didn’t function that way, reliably, always, I wouldn’t consider its OS to be fit for purpose. It has to be ready to work when I am, all the time, without exception! What good are devices that don’t work when you need them?
For people who don’t have the technical inclination that would allow them to set up and configure Linux, or who need a program like Photoshop that runs on Mac and Windows but not Linux, I would still have to suggest MacOS for anyone who asked, despite the aforementioned reservations. I’d have to suggest carefully vetting the hardware and making sure whatever the person ends up with is not one of the trouble-prone devices. I don’t like any setup where the entire OS platform is hardware-dominated by a single company, but it’s still better than Windows in the shape it’s in now (showing that having the whole OS platform being software-dominated by a single company isn’t perfect either).
For people who just need to browse and do simple stuff, I would suggest an iPad or ChromeOS. I did, in fact, suggest the latter just the other day, to an employee of Fry’s Electronics, of all people. She was the loss prevention receipt checker at the exit, and I’d brought my Dell laptop in with me to keep it out of the heat (and theft risk). She saw it and asked if I liked it and if it was generally a good laptop, and I had to answer that I do like it and find it to be a good laptop, but only because I had replaced its preinstalled Windows 10 with Linux Mint. As configured by Dell, it would have had the same problem as Patch Lady’s laptop… not having enough free space on the included 32GB eMMC drive for the latest update.
She didn’t even know what Linux was. Oh, the huge manatee. I understand that a lot of people don’t, but she works at Fry’s! I told her it was a free operating system, but I didn’t try to go into detail. I would just have confused her, I think.
The young woman went on to say she needed something for school (not sure what level of school she meant), and that she needed to run Chrome. I suggested that if this was the main thing, a Chromebook would probably work well for her… no Windows 10 silliness to contend with, no need to worry about installing anything. Just open it up and use it!
I’ve basically made the Dell into a sorta-Chromebook, in that it runs Linux (ChromeOS is Linux too) and allows me to use a browser wherever I go with minimal hardware required for good performance. Waterfox is quite responsive and pleasant to use on the Dell, even with its very limited CPU power, RAM, and storage space. I was just using it in a Burger King the other day (right after the conversation with the young woman, in fact), and I was thinking to myself how well Waterfox performed on the little laptop.
Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11) -
Ascaris,
I was merely expressing my satisfaction that the Mac is working in one of several ways in which a well-constructed machine of a recent make should work, and my Mac is clearly well constructed in that and those other ways in a manner most pleasing. All of which I greatly celebrate in my usual quiet and understated way. And while the stability it has exhibited through the almost exactly one year since it came into my life is the same that I learned to expect from the Unix workstations of many years ago — and from some Linux running machines I have used since — nevertheless, it is running from considerably better to much, much better than any of my now three successive Windows ones (98, xp and 7 x64), all of good brands. Which, after more than six years plus of service each, the first two have been already discarded because of insufficient disk space (4 GB and 32 GB), and the third, running Win 7 (with 750 GB), my current one, is already, at 7 years of age this month, starting to get on in years. (And this last one has been, so far, the most stable and pleasing of the three, by far.)
Also: thanks for clarifying that, yes, one can wipe clean the hard disk of the Mac after its hardware’s appointed EOL, put in there a non-Apple OS, and the machine will still work, and probably be OK. I wasn’t sure of that, not having heard of it until just now that it can be done. Because Apple not only makes the software but also the hardware, and is under no particular obligation to make the hardware compatible with anything else other than macOS. Once upon a time, for a brief period, I seem to remember that at Apple, when they built the first Macs with Intel CPUs, they designed them to allow for dual boot with Windows. Or else they licensed some PC manufacturers to install their then called OS X in those manufacturers’ later generation IBM-clone Windows PCs. But that was years ago.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
-
I really think the consideration of Mac vs. Windows vs. Linux needs it’s own forum. This is because the average user audience that will benefit the most from a related discussion may be alienated by the technical opinions of aficionados of a particular platform.
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
-
For my part, I must confess that this exchange has been very informative.
I also have the impression that, by now, it possibly has run its course.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
Peacelady, see my posting #199437 also. You can keep the macOS, for example the one you start with on your new machine, until the third version after yours comes out. One new version comes out roughly every year, so a particular version of macOS will be supported for about three years since it first came out. You can keep the Mac itself supported for many years, but eventually Apple will give up on supporting it. At which point there may be at least one way to keep on using it safely. There are several entries on that as well in this forum. And as DrBonzo has pointed out (#199445), upgrading to a new version of the macOS can be a fairly painless and trouble-free experience.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV2 users thanked author for this post.
If you are ready to move away from Windows and to something else, your first step should be to convert your current Windows install into a virtual machine. Doing this will allow you to run that same Windows install in whatever new system you go with, and you won’t have to reinstall anything to do so. The conversion process will make a condensed copy of your Windows install. You can then open that “condensed copy” (a file) in your virtual machine software and thereby run Windows in whatever system you have moved to. Here’s how to do this:
https://www.howtogeek.com/213145/how-to%C2%A0convert-a-physical-windows-or-linux-pc-to-a-virtual-machine/In my opinion, it is essential that you have a copy of Windows running in a virtual machine in your new setup. It will take you a while to get used to the new setup; and during that learning process, you will need a way to do things, such as typing documents and spreadsheets, printing, scanning, etc. By having Windows in a virtual machine, you will be able to get into Windows with just a click and do the things you haven’t yet figured out how to do in the new setup.
By the way, doing the above is not hard. Here’s how to do this if you decide to go with Linux:
1. Make a condensed copy of your current Windows install.
2. As a test, install your virtual machine software in Windows, and open the condensed copy of Windows as a virtual machine, to make sure that everything is working ok.If everything works ok in the virtual machine copy of Windows, then proceed with the remaining steps listed below:
3. Make sure you have saved that condensed copy of Windows to an external hard drive, so it doesn’t accidentally get deleted.
4. Install Linux on your computer; do a “clean” install, which will wipe the drive clean in the process.
5. Install the virtual machine software in Linux.
6. Open your condensed copy of Windows in a virtual machine.This is what I have done with my former Windows computer, and it works very well. I don’t run Windows very often; but it is a life saver to have Windows handy in case I need it to perform some task I can’t do in Linux.
Good luck!
Jim
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server-
Or you could buy a new iMac and install Windows in a VM there. No learning Linux that way. 😉
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
One can learn how to do most of the useful things with Linux using the macOS command line, which runs in BASH (default) and has only some minor discrepancies of detail with plain(er)-vanilla Linux distros. Of course, one cannot learn about the delights of installing and maintaining Linux that way.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
-
But at least that’s optional, LOL! Not everyone wants to pursue Linux.
There is a reason that Apple is one of the most successful companies in history. They have discovered the “secret sauce” that make technology appealing to non-technical folks! 🙂
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/05/your-money/apple-market-share.html
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
-
-
-
-
Plus there is the free Microsoft Office Online. The downside is it has a slimmed down feature set, and since it is a cloud app like Google Docs, you need to sign on with your Microsoft ID, and store your docs in OneDrive.
https://www.howtogeek.com/183299/a-free-microsoft-office-is-office-online-worth-using/
I use LibreOffice on my personal computer, but MS Office Online might come in handy as well.
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
-
JohnW
Sorry about the confusion: I was asking if one can use LibreOffice to open and edit MS Office PPT files, etc. But now I see that I failed to make this clear.
And, while at it: can LibreOffice be used to open Excel spreadsheets and, conversely, to create spreadsheets compatible with Excel. And, in particular, can it be used to make plots with the data in spreadsheets created either way (which is what I mostly use MS Excel for.)
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
-
I use LibreOffice exclusively now for my own use. It does everything that I need it to do, and I have set up a few spreadsheets that I need to track things with.
But if I needed to exchange spreadsheets professionally with a team that was using MS Office, I would buy Office.
You can open up Excel spreadsheets in Libre, and save them in .xlsx or .ods, or Word docs can be opened and saved as .docx or .odt, and Powerpoint can be saved as .pptx or .odp. The MS file extensions .xlsx, .docx, .pptx are Office Open XML based, the others are open document format. This has gone a long way to improve open file exchange, but there will always be features that only exist in one app or the other.
So I don’t think there is, or ever will be, 100% feature compatibility. So some things may not translate correctly between applications. Not bad, but not perfect either. I have had a few cases where it was necessary to clean up files manually after importing them. Especially older MS files that were not XML based.
My conclusion is that if you need to collaborate with others, use what the team is using. 🙂
But I will add that if you are the only one doing the editing the file, LibreOffice works just fine. One recommended technique is to simply publish your work as a PDF file and share it that way. It is 100% foolproof, if your audience only needs to read, or print. Another thing that I have tried is publishing a spreadsheet to Google Docs as read-only. Then you can just publish the http link to anybody who wants to see it.
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
-
-
Just an observation but… from your post, your computing needs appear to be absolutely minimal.
The reason I mention this is because I’ve just bought myself a second-hand MacBook Pro (2012 model) for a fraction of the price of a new model and have been amazed how fast it is… and it runs the latest macOS High Sierra. (I’m now tempted to buy a 20″ iMac that Groupon is selling for just £300!)
Just a thought… you don’t always need brand spanking new when your actual computing needs are minimal.
Hope this helps…
-
-
I suggest that if you get a refurbished computer, make sure you can get your money back if there are problems. A few years ago I bought a refurbished computer from Walmart.com. It had hardware problems, so I was able to return it to my local Walmart for a full refund!
– The key to my being able to get my money back at my local Walmart was that not only did I buy it at Walmart.com, but Walmart.com was listed as the vendor. If some other company is listed as the vendor, Walmart won’t give you a refund, even though you bought it through their website.Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Nothing of value is left on my computer. All is deleted and if needed I make a hard copy for my desk file.
Since there is nothing of value on your computer, you could try Linux for free, just to see what you think about it.
Go to http://www.linuxmint.com, and download one of the install files. It doesn’t matter which, except that you need to get 32-bit if your computer is 32-bit, and 64-bit if your computer is 64-bit. (If you aren’t sure, go with one of the 32-bit downloads.)
Now, in Windows, insert a blank DVD and right-click on the ISO file that you downloaded. Choose the option that lets you create a DVD from the ISO file.
once you have done that, reboot to the DVD. See what you think of Linux Mint. If you like it, click the install icon to install it on your hard drive. If you don’t like it, get a MAC instead.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server3 users thanked author for this post.
Peacelady,
To answer your last question, yes I think you would definitely be more secure running a Mac rather than Windows with your context of use. But you might even be more secure on Linux since Mac are not that well protected against the few but more frequent attacks that can target them.
Rather than go spend money on a new computer anyway, if you are not going to use your current Windows 7 no more, you could simply do what MrJimPhelps suggested and try to install Linux over your current computer. You have nothing to loose if you are going to buy the Mac anyway otherwise. Do it in dual boot so you can still have Windows in case something goes bad, but I bet you will find Mint very easy to use for the type of scenario you have and you will save money. In a few minutes you will be up and running.
If you don’t like it, you can easily go buy a Mac then, and use your Windows 7 in the meantime. It is very easy to install Mint. I have done it on my aunt computer because she had too much trouble with Windows 10 and she never booted Windows again. Her computer is faster, simpler, more secure and she is happy although she doesn’t know anything about computers.
Another reason you might not want to buy a computer right now is they still run chips where side-channel vulnerabilities were not considered during design, so we might find new ones still with the current processors. I would wait until your current computer is dead before replacing with a newer chip that might address this risk better. Some might say we haven’t seen anything big regarding those vulnerabilities yet. I look at it with a theoretical point of view that the vulnerabilities recently discovered are very bad regardless of what we think we know happened in practice until now with them.
If you go buy a Mac, just don’t buy the current laptops. The Macbook Air is way too old, the MacBook Pro has a stupid touch bar (except one version) instead of F keys that I predicted would fail miserably because Lenovo tried the same thing a few years ago on its flagship Carbon X1 and it was a disaster, plus it has a terrible keyboard that fails often and only USB-C port. The great Macbook Pros are the ones from the previous generation, but they are old. Apple is going to replace the current lineup, they might add a dust protection to the keyboard, but I doubt it is going to make it great. Since you said you are more a desktop person, you won’t suffer from these issues if you stick with desktop.
A Mac will maybe be easier if you buy peripherals and software, but from you are saying, I bet you could use Linux just fine on your current computer and you wouldn’t miss anything from the Mac. I have been very disappointed by Apple recently. Their latest IOS 11 for the Iphone/Ipad is a disaster. It is still riddled with bugs. The latest update have my battery started draining like crazy during the night on both my devices from 100% to less than 40% although I turned every background service off and I know what I am doing when it comes to settings on those devices. The IOSes were much better in the past. Tim Cooks admitted quickly the mistake of development going too fast with IOS 11 and promised to get back on course, but I must say they don’t seem to have the same magic as they had a few years ago. They could get it back, though. My Ipad still is slow as molasses when I am typing since IOS 10, I have to wait many seconds to see what I type after I am finished with a sentence and it is far from being a slow Ipad. That is just ridiculous. I just feel like they lost it in the QC department. A desktop Mac doesn’t run IOS and they might be less affected by issues, but I just thought I would share as much info as I can to help you decide what you want to do.
Both options are good alternatives for your scenario, I think. I feel, and maybe I am wrong, that Linux is simpler in a way than Apple products. Everything that integrates with the cloud that Apple added makes a lot of things more interconnected and more complex than they were. My experience is with mobile devices, but they have become much more complex and you need to disable a lot of things to have a simple experience with no unwanted side-effects you are not aware of, IMHO. But Apple still does great products in general and they give you better control than MS if you want to look for the settings.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
I am a Linux geek, but even I can see that her needs are relatively basic, and an iMac is probably the best solution in this particular use case.
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
All of you don’t get @Peacelady ‘s message. She is not geeky. Advice here is about live booting Linux, dual booting Linux, trying different distros, even INSTALLING Linux. She is not about doing that or looking for drivers or making things work. That is good for you, a challenge.
This is not what she needs. She needs something already set up that she doesn’t have to keep finagling with. And that’s Macs (she’s looking at an iMac, not laptop). Macs are so easy. New program? – double click the installer, say yes, drag the icon to the Doc. New printer? – Mac says “Oh, let me set that up for you. There you go!” Some people appreciate that.
6 users thanked author for this post.
-
All of you don’t get @peacelady ‘s message. She is not geeky. Advice here is about live booting Linux, dual booting Linux, trying different distros, even INSTALLING Linux. She is not about doing that or looking for drivers or making things work. That is good for you, a challenge. This is not what she needs. She needs something already set up that she doesn’t have to keep finagling with. And that’s Macs (she’s looking at an iMac, not laptop). Macs are so easy. New program? – double click the installer, say yes, drag the icon to the Doc. New printer? – Mac says “Oh, let me set that up for you. There you go!” Some people appreciate that.
Sorry, to disagree here. I think I got peacelady’s message. She is not geeky, but a bit like Elly that says she is not geeky, the things she said previously she is doing shows a certain level of competence/interest using a computer.
My point was simply to say if she is going to not use Windows 7 anyway because she is scared of it, why not just TRY installing Linux Mint on it? I installed Mint easily and it was not a challenge. There is no special question to respond. My aunt that knows nothing about computers and wondered “where Google went” after a feature update uses Mint now and she didn’t have any issue with it. She found it very easy to work with. She doesn’t have peripherals and all she do is email and web browsing. I precisely suggested to try Mint as Peacelady doesn’t seem to use any special peripheral that would require fancy drivers or any additional installation.
And I precisely suggested an install after understanding she found running a VM too much and after she said she was scared to continue using Windows and me concluding she probably wouldn’t use the Windows 7 computer anyway in that case. She could just put the DVD in and try the installer. This doesn’t require any special skill. If it works, good, if it doesn’t, you buy the Mac. Or you still buy the Mac because you fall in love with the idea of the Mac and you have two working computers. Plus, she seems to have lots of support to help her set that up. Her techie grandson could do install Mint for her, so I didn’t think suggesting an install at this point was a bad idea at all.
Maybe she doesn’t want to do that and that is fine. I have no problem with it. Where I think you missed the point in our conversations is that this subject went farther than this specific case and I thought it could apply to a more general audience, as much of the info given here could be used by others in a similar position.
It is entirely possible someone who comes on Askwoody, although non-techie could try it, because they are at least interested a bit in what is going on with their computer or a are legitimately worried about some of the things happening with Windows, unlike my aunt who would never come here. I feel that sometimes, people make Linux something more esoteric than it is. If you are going to put your computer in a wardrobe, why not give it a try? If it works the first time, you might not have issue with it for a very long time. And from what I understood of her scenario, it wouldn’t be a big deal if it didn’t work since she would just then buy a Mac and she didn’t need to save data on it. If all you are going to do is use Firefox and Thunderbird, you might never need any hand holding for anything.
Plus, after Peacelady expressed concern over this, I also wanted to point out Mac might be more secure than Windows, but maybe not more than Linux. This could be debated, but although Apple have taken more a security first approach to OS design, they are not as fast to react to security issues than other companies like Google or some open-source folks. They also are the company that leaves users of not that old devices out in the dust with no security patch if you can’t run the latest OS. That is, to me, important information to consider. I already had to throw away a few perfectly functional mobile devices because they are not suitable for work no more since they don’t receive security patches.
I also got she wanted a desktop, but in case the Mac salesman tries to convince her to get a laptop but also for other people interested in the topic, I was pointing some information I think is important about the laptops. Maybe it was overwhelming and I am sorry if it was, but I think the question Peacelady asked was maybe relevant to many other people being in a similar situation and my response was to all and not just her, knowing she would be able to use it to decide what she wants to do and in no way trying to tell her what she should do. I think it is an interesting subject that goes beyond the initial question and since it gathered lots of posts, I think others might find it so too. I hope this explains the enthusiasm responding to her question.
-
Hello All,
When I first created this post I was seeking advice on purchasing an IMAC to be rid of the Windows 7 I currently have and so that I would not have to go to Windows 10 in 2020. The reason I quantify everything I say and remind everyone that I am not a techie is because compared to the majority of the people here I am a babe in the woods. I have never built a computer nor do I delve into the hidden recesses of the belly of the beast. I have taught myself a lot about computer security and I have a good grasp of everyday computing. I’ve learned a great deal from Kreb’s Security and Woody’s Lounge.That said, I feel badly that the tone of some of the responses here may seem like some people’s input is not as valuable as others. I certainly do not feel that way. The responses have been detailed and people have gone out of their way to help me make the right decision for me. Also, as was brought out, some of the suggestions were meant for a broader audience as this is a subject that is valuable to others here who may be disgusted with Microsoft Windows.
In my case after reading all the responses I decided not to install Linux Mint, for example, not because of fear of installation but because I don’t want a computer with anything Windows on it at all.
I apologize if I did not get this across.This Forum has so many responses because it seems to be of general interest to folks here. I suggest it might be more valuable in the future if we take the focus off of “Peacelady” and interested people can discuss what they plan to do if they are fed up with Microsoft Windows. We all need to decide what we will do going forward.
When I purchase my IMAC I’ll share how I like it. It may be in August when my hubby said it could be my birthday present.
In the meantime, I am eternally grateful to everyone here and because they don’t call me “Peacelady” for nothing, I hope that I have not made anyone feel “lesser than”. ?❤?
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
Good luck with your journey, and hope that it is peaceful! The digital journey offers many opportunities to learn and explore. But it is up to you to decide what you seek. 🙂
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
-
I explained the Mac laptop in case Peacelady decided to get one after all.
The desktop iMac is better overall for hardware versatility than the Mac laptops, but not perfect.
Some details on iMacs, here: https://www.apple.com/imac/
Types and prices of laptops and iMacs, here:
https://www.apple.com/mac/compare/
As I see it, Pro and Cons of the iMacs:
(1) Pro: Standard keyboard (with regular keys, it is a flat metallic keyboard Apple calls the”Magic” keyboard) No touch stripe replacing the function keys to worry about.
Con: flat keyboard keys might jam easier than in other types of keyboards. Not expensive, so one just goes and buys a new (online from Apple) one if that ever happened.
(2) Pro: It still has four USB ports to plug in the cords of most things (printers, etc.) one already is using with the Windows PC.
Con: The USB are USB-3, which might or might not need and adapter for the type of USB in the cable of the thing one wants to connect to the iMac.
(3)Pro: (sort of) Pricier iMacs come with high resolution and excellent color “Retina” monitor screens.
Con: It has no HDMI but a Thunderbolt socket to plug in a cable to a separate video display (monitor, TV set) for watching video on an even larger screen, so a Thunderbolt/HDMI adapter is probably needed for that, because most external displays, including new ones, still have HDMI connectors.
(4) Con: As all Macs, it does not have a DVD player for watching movies and other uses, so one need an external drive for that. The Apple Superdrive is a good one for DVDs. The Macs do not play Blu ray out of the box. One needs to buy a DVD/Blue ray player for that and get special software, probably the one that comes with that DVD/Blue ray player. Those things might tend to be buggy and short-lived, if one is to believe some customers’ opinions at Amazon.
Overall, the Cons are not that bad, if possibly somewhat annoying. Particularly the likely need to use several dongles (adapters) to connect various things to the machine. But, as the machine is most likely going to sit on a table and stay there, the dongles can be left plugged in with little total inconvenience.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV2 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
USB-A type connector should be compatible with both USB2 and USB3 ports. USB3 is engineered to be backward-compatible with USB2 devices.
https://www.lifewire.com/usb-type-a-connector-2626032
So no worries then.
And that USB-C port is for the future, for Thunderbolt and various adapters for other devices that may need to connect with that iMac someday. But not a concern for any of your legacy devices for now.
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
-
-
-
Oscar, it’s a USB-A connector for her Yubico Key that she needs to plug into the iMac. No printers or anything else other than maybe an Ethernet cable. Peacelady stated earlier “My present key is a USB-A”.
The iMac is plug and play with standard USB3. The Type “A” USB3 ports (x4) are clearly shown in the picture that you linked to. 😉
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
I think the confusion here maybe arose because Peacelady was asking if she needed to buy a “NEW” USB-C version of her key, to replace her existing one.
I believe that question was cleared up as not necessary to buy a new key as she later mentioned that her existing key is USB-A.
USB-A is the universal flat wide USB connector that you see on the back of your computer, and the iMac comes with 4 of those ports as USB3. So legacy USB gear is plug and play, no adapters required for that.
iMac also supports USB-C, but Peacelady will not need to utilize that port yet. Something to grow into if the need arises! 🙂
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Hello Peacelady!
I really appreciated the discussion of alternatives to Windows 7. You are blessed that you can afford a Mac, and you will probably be happy with it. I just wanted to correct one thing:
In my case after reading all the responses I decided not to install Linux Mint, for example, not because of fear of installation but because I don’t want a computer with anything Windows on it at all. I apologize if I did not get this across.
Windows OS are proprietary operating systems developed and maintained by Microsoft.
Linux Mint is an open source operating system supported by a community of developers and users.
Some people want to use programs or apps that they already have or are familiar with in Windows, and thus you get discussions on how to make those programs work in Linux Mint, or what similar programs are available. But Linux Mint is not a Windows operating system, or derived from any Windows operating system.
Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
I could be mistaken about this — but people said they could switch between Windows and Linux and I prefer not to have any Windows anymore.
People set them up that way (using one or the other in a dual boot or VM) so they have choice, especially if you are depending on a particular program. The suggestion to try it on a USB stick is so you can see if you like it, without making a permanent change to your base operating system, while you are experimenting. But… even if you get a Mac… you could install Linux Mint as your only operating system on the computer that now has Windows on it, and be done with Windows.
I would caution you that one of the problems with Windows updating has been with the Meltdown/Spector flaws that are found not in the operating system (software), but in the processor chips that are part of the hardware of your system. I’m not sure how Macs/Apple handle that. The new chips that don’t contain the flaw built in won’t be for sale until the end of this year… so if Linux Mint (which has mitigations for the flaws) allows you to use your current computer until the new processors are available, you may get more bang for your buck by buying a new computer then.
Big (((hugs)))!
Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
Elly writes: “I’m not sure how Macs/Apple handle that.”
There is some information on that here:
And as to the situation with VMs created with VMware, something about Macs, among other things, here:
https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/52245
I hope this might help to clarify this point.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV2 users thanked author for this post.
-
Very well put, Elly!
I have both Windows 8.1 and Linux Mint 18.3 on two of my PCs because I want to be able to use Windows if I desire. It’s called a dual-boot setup, because when I turn the PC on, it gives me a menu where I can choose to boot into Linux Mint or Windows.
Most of the time, like right now as I write this message, I am using Linux Mint, and while Mint is active, Windows is not… while Windows is still there on the SSD, it’s dormant, and it presents no more security issues than if it were not there at all. In order for the Windows security issues to matter, I would have to intentionally reboot and choose Windows in the menu, at which point Linux would be dormant and Windows would be active. Then it would have all the same security concerns as any other Windows PC.
This setup is completely optional, as Elly said. You can run Linux without Windows being there at all. I have Linux Mint on my Dell laptop, without Windows. It came with Windows 10, but that was a bad choice by Dell (and not just because of the problems with Windows 10), since the internal eMMC drive (which is not upgradeable) is too small to even accommodate Windows with enough room for it to update, let alone Windows and whatever programs I want to install. Linux Mint is a lot smaller than Windows, and fits easily on the small eMMC drive with two thirds of the drive still empty (in which I can install more programs). This computer runs just fine without Windows in any form.
There are also virtual machines, which MrJimPhelps describes. These are completely optional too, and like a dual-boot setup, they won’t be a part of your PC setup unless you want them to be. When people set up a Windows virtual machine in Linux, it’s just another tool that allows them to run Windows programs when they need to. For most things, you won’t need to; Linux is a perfectly capable operating system in its own right, and all of the regular things (browsers, email programs, etc.) have Linux versions that don’t need Windows in the picture at all.
Every now and then, some people need to run a specific program that does not work on Linux, so that’s why we have things like dual-boot or a virtual machine… so we can run Linux most of the time but still be able to run those Windows-only programs when necessary.
I am glad you brought that concern up, Peacelady! Sometimes it is difficult for more technically-oriented people to know what impressions we may be creating when we talk about these things. We might sometimes gloss over things that it would be beneficial for us to… well, not gloss over, but until someone says something, we’re not aware of it.
Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)2 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
-
Peacelady:
I have Linux Mint installed on my formerly-Windows computer as the primary operating system. I wiped the drive clean as part of the install, so there was nothing related to Windows which remained on the computer.
Once I got Linux Mint up and running, I installed VMWare Workstation Player for Linux. This software is free, and it allows me to install different operating systems (e.g. Windows, DOS, MAC OS, etc.) as “guest” operating systems. These guest OS installs are called “virtual machines” or VMs.
I then set up two virtual machines — a Windows 7 VM and a Windows 8.1 VM.
So far, there is nothing related to Windows installed on my computer. By installing Windows in a virtual machine, it stays separate from the computer. It is entirely contained in the virtual machine, and it is entirely managed by its gatekeeper, VMWare Workstation Player. Actually, that is not a completely accurate statement; each VM has internet access, and each VM can access my shared drive. If I turned off those two features, there would be no connection between my Windows VMs and the computer.
I like it this way, because there is no intermixing of Windows and Linux, as there is with other arrangements. When I want to run Windows, I open the VM. When I don’t want to run Windows, I close the VM. Windows in effect stays dead until I am ready to resurrect it. And it then stays alive until I kill it once again, at which time it is totally gone from running on the computer.
Jim
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
The .iso images that can be used to create a Windows DVD or USB drive can be downloaded from Microsoft. You will need a product key for the version you want to get, but it doesn’t attempt to validate the key at that point beyond using it to select the right version to download. It will still need to be activated using a valid key after installation.
Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
As far as licensing goes, running Windows 7 in a VM requires a valid seat license just the same way as a physical HDD installation. So you would need two Windows 7 license keys if you were running Windows 7 on the host PC and also wanted to run a 2nd copy as a VM.
Jim gets around that by Running Linux as the host OS, and “moving/converting” his installed existing Windows 7 64-bit OEM license to the VM. He is still only running one copy of Windows 7 64-bit.
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
-
I found out the hard way that Microsoft will only allow you to download a Windows 7 .iso if you have a “Retail” copy. I plugged my OEM key into their website and it failed validation.
There is a non-MS website that Woody wrote about last year that will let you obtain these .iso files, with the disclaimer that you need to check the file hash to ensure it is a legit, non-hacked copy.
This worked for me a while back when I was trying to convert my Win 7 Pro box with an OEM install disk from 32-bit to 64-bit, and I did not have the physical .iso for 64-bit.
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
Oscar:
I have two Windows 7 installs (one is 64-bit, the other is 32-bit) and a Windows 8.1 install (32-bit). Here’s how I did each one:
* Windows 7 32-bit — I have a retail copy of W7 32-bit, so it was a straightforward install using the original install disk.
* Windows 7 64-bit — This is what came on the machine when I bought it from Dell. I downloaded vCenter Converter from http://www.vmware.com and ran it in my Windows 7 64-bit install. It saved the entire W7 install as a .VXD file. I then rebooted into Linux Mint, opened VMWare Workstation Player, and opened the .VXD file as a virtual machine. It opened right up. The only issue I’m having with it is that I can’t get the video to be exactly full screen like it was when it was running as the primary OS on the machine. (The other two VMs have no such problem – their video is perfect.)
* Windows 8.1 32-bit — I have a retail copy of W8.0 32-bit, and so I downloaded the Windows 8.1 32-bit ISO file from Microsoft, then created a new VM, specifying the ISO file I just downloaded. VMWare asked me to input the install key, and about 5 minutes later I had a fully operational Windows 8.1 VM.
The easiest way by far that I have set up a Windows VM is to download the appropriate ISO, and then point to that ISO when setting up the VM.
Jim
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server2 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
And if you are willing to run Windows 10 in a VM for support of your old Windows-only applications, you can install and use it for free (on a HDD, or in a VM). 🙂
Just download the Windows Media Creation Tool, and use the option to create the installation media for another computer.
After installation, you can skip the activation, and use it indefinitely without activating it.
You will see a nag on the desktop, but really this is the cheapest, easiest way to get Windows. It will not time out or expire. Who cares about a nag if you only use it occasionally? 🙂
https://superuser.com/questions/1024274/how-long-can-i-use-windows-10-without-activation
https://www.windowscentral.com/you-do-not-need-activate-windows-10
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
Everyone here is giving me much to think about. Now that I learned that Windows and Linux are separate on the same computer, this could be an interim fix for me — especially to wait until the new version of the IMAC comes out that will hopefully fix the Intel issue. I’m staying tuned….. 🙂
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Better watch out! You might decide that you like Linux Mint so much that you will forget about the iMAC!
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server2 users thanked author for this post.
-
Yes, Peacelady, that was the message I was trying to convey to you earlier and now I understand why we didn’t understand each other at first. I didn’t correct you in your previous message when you said you didn’t want to try Linux because you didn’t want anything to do with Windows anymore, to not sound pushy after you clearly expressed you wish to get a Mac, but Elly did a wonderful job at explaining that Windows and Linux don’t have to mix at all and why you might want to wait a bit for the Mac. Most people here probably suggested ways to make Windows and Linux work in case you would miss something from Windows, but in your case with the usage scenario you described, I think you might not miss anything.
Others added explanations as to how you can have a level of control on your own computer running Windows and/or Linux in various configurations (dual-boot, VMs, with or without Internet access for Windows, etc.). For example, my aunt has Linux and Windows in dual-boot. Since she never used Windows after I installed Linux, she in fact just starts the computer and let Linux start by itself instead of manually choosing to start Windows instead, so she never had to patch Windows ever and Windows never ran on her computer no more after I installed Linux. She in fact only had a Linux laptop with an option to use Windows on the same machine if she ever wanted to. I just left Windows there as a safety in case she changes her mind, but she never felt the need to go back to Windows.
Now that you expressed renewed interest in maybe trying Linux after Elly’s comments for many good reasons including the sorry state of processors regarding security right now, please allow me to explain what I see would be the simplest way to do that for you if you want to pursue the experiment and wait a bit more for the Mac.
1) I understood you really don’t care for Windows so I consider you don’t want to run Windows at all on your computer, as long as you can use a browser and email. That is the premise.
2) You could ask your grandson to install Mint for you if it makes you more comfortable. He could erase the disk and only install Mint. No more Windows. Then, you would have a working computer to browse and do email. As simple as that. No worry about any Windows patch. That’s it. The only thing is if you were to do it yourself, it could go very easy, or it could not work. If it doesn’t work, then having your techie grandson involved would be a big plus. But once it works, it should be fine after since you won’t try to install new peripherals. I don’t know if you use a printer, but I would have my grandson set it up initially if you do just to make sure everything works. When your grandson installs Mint, you can choose the option to only get security updates in order to minimize any disruptions. You will get Linux security updates, but they will be smooth, quick and painless.
3) If you are afraid you might regret and might want to go back to Windows while you shop the Mac, you could ask your grandson to install Mint in dual boot. You only boot Mint from now on, so no Windows is ever run on your computer and it doesn’t need patching either, just like my aunt. Then, only if you really need to, you could start your computer and say please start Windows instead of Linux when the start menu appears, and then you could run Windows, but it would be because you really decided to do it. At that point, you could patch Windows right away having had no risk not patching until that moment. It would be like if you never turned on your computer running Windows for a few weeks. Nothing different. Another advantage of installing in dual boot is if for any reason when you try to install Linux it doesn’t work, then you can just continue using your Windows computer while you shop for the Mac. That is what I would do.
Guessing from the conversations you had here, I think you really don’t want to run Windows and just want to end this nonsense patching nightmare. So for me, buying a Mac or just trying a Linux only install on your machine would fit that bill if you have help to make sure Linux will work.
A good idea that has been suggested here would be to just try Linux Mint as a live CD, which means you start your computer with the Mint disk in it and just run it to see what it looks like. It is like a free try of the OS without installing anything on your computer. If it works without issue, then it might be like that once you install Mint. It is a no risk try. Plus, once you get the CD, you can use it to install Linux if you like the “free” try, although Linux is free anyway!
If you decide to pursue in that direction, although there is a good chance it could go well even if you did it yourself, I strongly suggest you enlist the help of your grandson or another techie person. That way, you will feel more comfortable and if anything special happen, you will have help. Sometimes, little things can be easily fixed or adjusted by techies although they look like a big deal to non-techies. A little help getting started and making sure your computer gets Linux patches for security would be a good idea. Plus, it feels nice to know someone can help if you have issues. If you don’t have help, I am not sure it is a good idea to do an install yourself. Although there is a good chance it could go very easy, if it doesn’t, you will not like us! Long term, the Mac might be a good choice, as even super techies like PKCano enjoy the simplicity of something that just works and Macs are still the best for that. With help from someone techie, and especially someone familiar with Linux, I would say go for it, you don’t have much to loose and a lot to gain.
I hope this helps you.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
I made do with “Ubuntu Unleashed 2013 edition”, which I already had from when I was trying to install and learn Ubuntu. This book is for intermediate and advanced users, or those wanting to become one. Ubuntu Unleashed 2017 Edition: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0134511182/
Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu and runs on the same Debian Linux branch as Ubuntu, so the underlying Linux principles are the same. Linux Mint is aimed mainly at desktop users, so you will not run across as much sysadmin type info for Mint compared to Ubuntu.
Ubuntu and Mint differ mostly in the desktop environment used, the menus, and the installed applications. Info is available in the Official User Guide, but it’s really just an overview of Mint, rather than a dive into Linux. Covers installation, the desktop, and the package manager: https://linuxmint.com/documentation.php
The Debian distros all share quite a bit under the hood, and info about Ubuntu seems to be the most abundant, and all except for the Mint specific details will usually apply.
https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/package-management-introduction.html.en
“Ubuntu’s package management system is derived from the same system used by the Debian GNU/Linux distribution. The package files contain all of the necessary files, meta-data, and instructions to implement a particular functionality or software application on your Ubuntu computer.”
“Debian package files typically have the extension ‘.deb’, and usually exist in repositories which are collections of packages found on various media, such as CD-ROM discs, or online. Packages are normally in a pre-compiled binary format; thus installation is quick, and requires no compiling of software.”
And here is a Linux Mint Beginners Guide – Kindle Edition, for 99 cents. https://www.amazon.com/Linux-Mint-Beginners-Guide-Second-ebook/dp/B00APNRSFC/ref=sr_1_1
Windows 10 Pro 22H2
-
@OscarCP- You might check out It’s FOSS, a website full of information on free and open source software.
It isn’t a book, but they have (free) a section called, “Ultimate Guide: Getting Started With Ubuntu”. Linux Mint is user friendly and based on Ubuntu, so this might be helpful. I like books (I’ve made good use of Woody’s Window 7 for Dummies recently, one more time, when I did a fresh install)… but this might be a web resource you hadn’t found yet… it covers how to install, dual booting, and how to accomplish various tasks once it is installed.
Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter
-
I think a valid way of comparing operating systems and software is looking at their approach to privacy. I found Linux Mint’s guiding principals to be refreshing, after all the Microsoft data mining. I thought I’d quote them here:
“Here are our key principles when it comes to privacy:
– Your data belongs to you.
– We respect your rights, in particular your rights to access and modification of your data.
– We do not look at personal data as an asset, but as a liability.
– We only store personal data when it is needed, either for our services to operate properly, or to comply with the law.
– We want as little of your personal data as possible. For most of the services and products we provide, we do not need to know anything personal about you. We try to reduce the amount of data we gather as much as possible.
– We are transparent about data collection and use. If anything isn’t clear or satisfactory, please contact us and we’ll help and/or fix the issue.
– We protect data via strong security, encryption and anonymizing techniques.
– We do not store contact information for marketing purposes.”Compare that to:
“Microsoft collects data from you, through our interactions with you and through our products. You provide some of this data directly, and we get some of it by collecting data about your interactions, use and experiences with our products”
“Many of our products require some personal data to provide you with a service.”
“Microsoft uses the data we collect to provide you rich, interactive experiences. In particular, we use data to… Advertise and market to you, which includes sending promotional communications, targeting advertising, and presenting you relevant offers.”
Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter
4 users thanked author for this post.
Take a look here: https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/185833?hl=en
Thanks!
1 user thanked author for this post.
Do you also have 2 step authentification for your Gmail? If so, and you never had to generate a separate one-time passcode that’s good enough for me!!! Also, everything is working fine.
It was such a pleasure to set up the Thunderbird account — it was all automatic. Outlook 2013 was a nightmare – everything from scratch etc. Thanks once again for your speedy replies — you always make me feel much better. Happy 4th!
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
I have two-step auth when I access (login to) my G-mail account usint a browser (Firefox, Safari, IE). I have to enter it once per device and check the box t remember the device. But I never have had to use it with Thunderbird.
2 users thanked author for this post.
I chose my Default email account (in Thunderbird) and went to “Apps with account access to your account” in my Google Account and it listed “Google Chrome” and “Mozilla Thunderbird Email”. So I guess all is well.
1 user thanked author for this post.
Peacelady, you might be interested in some of the settings below that I use for Thunderbird and that I like, especially the privacy settings:
General
No Start Page
Default Search Engine : Google or wikipedia to avoid Bing
Display
Advanced :
Automatically mark messages as read, after displaying for 2 seconds
Open messages in New Window (instead of tabs that people forget to close)
Composition
Addressing : Automatically add outgoing e-mail addresses to my : Personal Address Book
Chat
Keep my chat accounts offline and uncheck Let my contacts know that I am idle after…
Privacy
Web content : uncheck remember websites
uncheck accept cookies : no use for that in email
check Tell web sites I do not want to be tracked
Security
Junk : When I mark messages as junk… delete them.
Anti-Virus : Allow quarantine
Attachments
Save all attachments to the desktop : easier to find
Advanced
General
System Integration : uncheck Allow Windows Search to search messages (privacy!)
Go to config editor, add a boolean (new boolean) name it plugin.disable and set it to true (it disables any plugin that another software would like to add without telling you).
Data Choices : remove Crash Reporter (privacy)Manage Add-ons : check that there is no plugin there in the plugin section. Then, in extensions maybe you would like to install LookOut by searching for it in the search box. It decodes some emails sent by Outlook with fancy formatting that might not turn out right otherwise. Do not remove Lightning as it permits to respond to Outlook invitations.
I also love Thunderbird to read RSS. If you are not familiar with RSS, this is an easy way to stay informed without subscribing to a newsletter, receiving new articles like an email, but with your software automatically pulling it instead of having to subscribe somewhere and with you in control. Every time Woody post an article on Computerworld, I receive it like an email. There are options to only see a summary and then you click to see the whole article or to see everything right away.
I like to click on the columns on the right of the emails list to add Size and Tag columns. You can use numbers 1, 2, 3, 4… on an email to add a tag and change its color (it’s customizable) and then you can filter emails based on tags. I use it quite simply to highlight important emails, it’s fast, and emails I can forget for a while. I also change Correspondents to From and To instead of Correspondents that I find more confusing.
I love the quick filter on a folder. You leave the quick filter button activated all the time and then when you look for an email, you just press CTRL-SHIFT-K and type what you are looking for. Searching thousands of emails is so fast that way if you don’t turn on the body filter (below the search box). I don’t sort my emails. When I have read them, I just press A to archive them automatically by year and when I look for a specific email, I go in that year and search using the quick search. The general search (CTRL-K) is good too, but I find the quick search faster for my needs, as the results are shown in the list of emails filtered.
The M key marks/unmarks a message as read/unread. Useful too. J is for marking junk.
That’s about it. I hope you like Thunderbird. I love it.
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
Yes, I have seen that before. I personally don’t use this feature at all (highlighting some text in your email, right-click and then search Google for this text in your favorite browser), so I just set it to Wikipedia so I won’t go to Bing by mistake, but if you want to install it, you can either install an add-on or perform a procedure like the one here:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-search-engine-open-search
2 users thanked author for this post.
thanks AlexEiffel — that’s what I did — set it to Wikipedia — I wouldn’t use that feature either.
1 user thanked author for this post.
Peacelady:
I would like to say something in favor of the IMAC: Apple is one of the few commercial companies that places top priority on your privacy. They continually come up with new ways to put you, not them, in total control of your personal data. You hold the encryption key, not them, if you want to set that up. Consequently, they have no way of unencrypting your data. I know this to be true, because about a year or two ago the FBI was putting severe pressure on Apple to break their own encryption so that the FBI could see what was on an iPhone. Apple stood firm in the face of huge pressure, refusing to budge on the issue. Finally the FBI backed off. That action by Apple scored them huge points in my book.
Also, there is a huge amount of ready-to-use software for Apple computers. And you don’t have to be a geek to figure it all out.
I’m sure you can see that a whole bunch of us have come to love Linux Mint. I’m sure you would too. And you can run Mint (or any other Linux distro) from a DVD, which means you don’t have to install it to run it. But I believe you would be happier with the IMAC, for the two reasons I stated above.
Jim
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server3 users thanked author for this post.
Hello Good Buddies – I certainly have missed my Woody “fix”! So glad we are up and running again. I’m typing on my new IMac — LOVING IT! I purchased the least expensive desktop. Spent the entire first night getting acquainted. I threw out the massive notebook on the permutations of updating Windows7. Hope I can still be a member here if I don’t have to update anymore and have a Mac. 🙂 . Also, big big ((hugs)) to all who encouraged me to make this switch — I am eternally grateful!
P.S. how do I do page up on the Mac?
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Two finger slide on a touchpad. I think the “Magic Mouse’ works the same way. You should really get a touchpad. I hated them on Win machines, but I hardly use the mouse on my Macs.
Incidentally, check out the setup description topics in the MacOS for Windows Wonks section.If you have any questions, start a topic there. I’ve been on Macs since 2011 – run Win in VMs.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
It is obvious that Microsoft has decided to abandon much of the Desktop market. Personally I hope someone else moves into the space that Microsoft has abandoned — either Mac or Linux (or both). This is a golden opportunity for Apple – I hope they will take advantage of it.
We have Mac forums here at AskWoody — https://www.askwoody.com/?post_type=forum&p=87075. I’m sure you will find lots of helpful information there.
And please continue hanging around the Windows forums as well.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server2 users thanked author for this post.
I just saw that I can use the fn plus the up arrow for scrolling. It works so for now I’ll keep the setup I have. In the future I’ll keep my IMac questions to the IMac forums.
1 user thanked author for this post.
Viewing 46 reply threads - This topic has 159 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 7 months ago by
Plus Membership
Donations from Plus members keep this site going. You can identify the people who support AskWoody by the Plus badge on their avatars.
AskWoody Plus members not only get access to all of the contents of this site -- including Susan Bradley's frequently updated Patch Watch listing -- they also receive weekly AskWoody Plus Newsletters (formerly Windows Secrets Newsletter) and AskWoody Plus Alerts, emails when there are important breaking developments.
Get Plus!
Recent Topics
-
Latest Firefox requires Password on start up
by 2 hours, 46 minutes ago
-
Resolved : AutoCAD 2022 might not open after updating to 24H2
by 7 hours, 8 minutes ago
-
Missing api-ms-win-core-libraryloader-11-2-1.dll
by 2 hours, 59 minutes ago
-
How Much Daylight have YOU Saved?
by 3 hours, 42 minutes ago
-
A brief history of Windows Settings
by 2 hours, 38 minutes ago
-
Thunderbolt is not just for monitors
by 3 hours, 47 minutes ago
-
Password Generators — Your first line of defense
by 3 hours ago
-
AskWoody at the computer museum
by 3 hours, 20 minutes ago
-
Planning for the unexpected
by 4 hours, 18 minutes ago
-
Which printer type is the better one to buy?
by 8 hours, 53 minutes ago
-
Upgrading the web server
by 7 hours, 18 minutes ago
-
New Windows 11 24H2 Setup – Initial Win Update prevention settings?
by 1 day, 2 hours ago
-
Creating a Google account
by 1 day, 1 hour ago
-
Undocumented “backdoor” found in Bluetooth chip used by a billion devices
by 1 day, 7 hours ago
-
Microsoft Considering AI Models to Replace OpenAI’s in Copilot
by 1 day, 18 hours ago
-
AI *emergent misalignment*
by 1 day, 19 hours ago
-
Windows 11 Disk Encryption/ Bitlocker/ Recovery Key
by 3 hours, 49 minutes ago
-
Trouble signing out and restarting
by 20 hours, 26 minutes ago
-
Windows 7 MSE Manual Updating
by 2 days, 4 hours ago
-
Problem running LMC 22 flash drive
by 1 day, 3 hours ago
-
Outlook Email Problem
by 1 day, 3 hours ago
-
“Microsoft 365 Office All-in-One For Dummies, 3rd Edition FREE
by 1 day, 10 hours ago
-
Cant use Office 2013 – Getting error message about Office 2013
by 2 days, 3 hours ago
-
Nearly 1 million Windows devices targeted in advanced “malvertising” spree
by 2 days, 3 hours ago
-
Windows 11 Insider Preview build 27808 released to Canary
by 3 days, 4 hours ago
-
Windows 11 Insider Preview Build 22635.5025 (23H2) released to BETA
by 3 days, 4 hours ago
-
Sysprep issue
by 3 days, 4 hours ago
-
Android Security Bulletin—March 2025
by 3 days, 6 hours ago
-
23h2: PIN TO START randomly available on right-click
by 3 days, 6 hours ago
-
Microsoft Defender
by 3 days, 12 hours ago
