Another report of an unwelcome 1803 upgrade

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Just got this from ig: Warning! Windows is now forcing 1803 on those applications that are currently using build 1709. I did my 1709 cumulative update
[See the full post at: Another report of an unwelcome 1803 upgrade]

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lmacri, GreatAndPowerfulTech, geekdom

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In my experience every Windows Update run also, besides doing the actual update, re-enables a number of scheduled jobs that by their names and descriptions imply they do things on Microsoft’s behalf (such as Task Scheduler Library\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\Scheduled Start). Not only that, but if you disable the Windows Update service, it will be enabled again.

This is not new, it’s been true since Windows 8, but with Windows 10 there are now more of these activities than ever, and it’s anything but clear which ones can be disabled without unwelcome side effects. Changing settings may end up leaving the thing completely unserviceable, rather than just returning control to the user. I’m not sure advancing to a permanent inability to apply updates is what people want, yet that’s precisely what I’ve seen happen on several occasions.

The message is clear: We’re simply not supposed to want or try to assert control over when and whether Windows Updates are applied any more.

“No user serviceable parts inside“.

“We have control of your set; do not adjust the knobs“.

This is why so many folks don’t even want to start down the Win 10 path.

-Noel

P.S., here are just some of the scheduled tasks that by their very paths/names are involved with the process. Ask yourself, why does there need to be more than one?

\Microsoft\Windows\UpdateOrchestrator\Maintenance Install
\Microsoft\Windows\UpdateOrchestrator\MusUx_UpdateInterval
\Microsoft\Windows\UpdateOrchestrator\Reboot
\Microsoft\Windows\UpdateOrchestrator\Schedule Retry Scan
\Microsoft\Windows\UpdateOrchestrator\Schedule Scan
\Microsoft\Windows\UpdateOrchestrator\USO_Broker_Display
\Microsoft\Windows\WaaSMedic\PerformRemediation
\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\Scheduled Start
\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\sih

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mindwarp, Mele20, unknown_error, Great Lake Bunyip, Sessh, HiFlyer, Karlston, BobbyB, lurks about, Elly, Pepsiboy, Chris B, wdburt1, CyGuy, satrow, columbia2011, WildBill, DAVe3283, MikeFromMarkham

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Noel Carboni wrote:

The message is clear: We’re simply not supposed to want or try to assert control over when and whether Windows Updates are applied any more. “No user serviceable parts inside“. “We have control of your set; do not adjust the knobs“. This is why so many folks don’t even want to start down the Win 10 path.

Indeed, Noel. I have Win8.1 Home & I haven’t upgraded to Win10 whatever because I don’t completely trust the metered connection trick. I also don’t feel confident that if I spent $100 to upgrade to Win10 Pro that the offered tools to control version changes would work either. As you alluded to “The Outer Limits”:

“We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical.” The full introduction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outer_Limits_(1963_TV_series)#Introduction

Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
Wild Bill Rides Again...

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HiFlyer

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I would use The Windows Update Blocker 1.1. Even the Home version can be buttoned up and only turned off when you want to update. It can be configured to not only turn off WU, but also any other service related to WU. It also make the services read only so MS cannot change them back unless in some underhanded way in the future they slip you an update that voids the settings.

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HiFlyer, Karlston

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I have two ageing systems running Win 7 64 bit, that are stable. They really need replacing soon, but I am most reluctant to do so since Win 10 will be standard on a new machine and I don’t want the brief it brings. PC builders – you are losing business. Do you have any more influence with Microsoft than us poor customers?

Chris
Win 10 Pro x64 Group A

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Great Lake Bunyip, HiFlyer

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Heh, and here I am changing my deferral settings over the weekend to try to grab 1803, including checking for updates as a “seeker”…and I can’t get it. 😀

MS, are you trying to tell me to go back to 7 on this machine too? 😀

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WildBill

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We’re running across something new with Windows 10 version updates. I’m still troubleshooting and don’t have all the answers yet, but we’ve now had 2 systems not managed by group policy get updated to 1803. Guinea Pigs if you will. These systems are using an E1 license with Office 2013 professional plus open license.

After the upgrade Office 2013 reports it is not licensed. I’m wrestling with activation now and not having much luck. I was told it may have something to do with Windows 10 and Office running in some sort of compatibility mode.

Anyway still troubleshooting, but wanted to advise.

As of now I am also unable to re-install Office 2013 on these systems. Getting a vague error message. Tried comparability mode for windows 7 and running as admin. Not working for now.

Rolling back to previous windows version stay tuned…….

Rolled back to 1709 and now it appears Office 2013 is no longer compatible with Windows 10. I guess that’s one way to force an upgrade. If I ever find a solution I’ll let you know.

Red Ruffnsore

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Jan K., Great Lake Bunyip, GreatAndPowerfulTech, HiFlyer, BobbyB, fk5353

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Thank you so much for your post! We have seen similar problems with Office 2010 and Office 2013 on Windows 10 1803 and were *sure* it was something we were doing wrong. Your post confirms our suspicion that *something* has changed recently in Windows 10 which is causing issues with installing both Office 2010 and Office 2013. The message we typically get says something along the lines of “Can’t activate this software”. No issues installing Office 2016 to the same systems.

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Great Lake Bunyip, HiFlyer

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Yes they have done something with the new 1803 install. We did not experience this at all previously. Something has changed with the 1803 installer.

Red Ruffnsore

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fk5353, Great Lake Bunyip

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Windows Update Blocker ( new version 1.1 ) can be configured to turn off WU and make it read only, so MS can’t turn it back on. The newer version also can be configured to block any other services associated with WU, such as the UpdateOrchestrator service. I’m on 1703 and so far it has buttoned up my system tight. I leave my metered connection to on, each month and then turn off Windows Update Blocker and run wushowhide after WU tells me I have updates waiting. All this is done, only after making a current image of my system. So far I have kept the boogie man (MS) from trashing my system. If they ever figure out to slip one past me, I will restore the image, turn on the Update Blocker and move to group W. I got a new router with built in security and run all the malware programs and Norton. As stated, so far so good. The only stupid thing is I have to turn off metered connection long enough to check my (Outlook) e-mail.

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Karlston, columbia2011

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These reports lead me to ask and think:
1. Is WUshowhide actually a way in for MS to alter things? (stranger things have happened)
2. Are MS measuring connections via the metered connection settings via Telemetry when connected on-line? (Then undermining the rule depending on actual bandwidth available using WUshowhide)

There are so many SVHosts in W10, it’s almost impossible to determine if this is true or not, so with that in mind perhaps 3rd party software is the way to go. Remember, W10 is constantly evolving so, relying on previously solid countermeasures may be the actual weakness. IMHO

Hence the link to Windows Update Blocker v1.1 is: https://www.sordum.org

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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HiFlyer, BobbyB

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1709 Home here – same exact thing happened to me last week – no choice – forced upgrade. Luckily, all went smoothly and I have no issues with 1803 to report.

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Sorry to hear you got force-fed 1803, but since you did and so far so good, would you describe the upgrade process?

I have yet to experience a Windows 10 feature upgrade since my new system came with 1709.

How long does it take? Is it kind of like when Windows 7 does a major SP version update?  Or is more like a new installation where you have to re-select all the settings, etc?  Do you retain your individual settings and changes made previously or is all lost?

Thanks

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There were two updates for 1709 on Tuesday of last week (I think) Since I have Win 10 Home there was no choice but for WU to install them. It took me a while to find out what they were – in searching I found they were updates to make the other versions below 1709 update to 1803 – but nothing happened so I thought I was safe. An hour later I came back from my walk and there was the large white box telling me it was ready to upgrade. No choice – so I let it do its thing.

It was the same process as the other upgrades – I guess it was more like upgrading Win 7 to SP2. It is an upgrade rather than update. It had to restart to install but once it was done I logged in as usual. The process took about 30 minutes, which is less time than the other upgrades I’ve gone through. Once I got back to my desktop, I began checking things out. All was well. I did have to reset some of the privacy settings back to OFF. All other settings were unchanged. All the apps I used on 1709 continued working with 1803.

I did notice my CPU was very busy at first – upon checking that, I saw that .Net was doing whatever it was doing – after about 15 minutes, it finally settled down.

So I feel quite fortunate. Back in April, I was forced to upgrade to 1803 and when it was completed, my system would freeze intermittently to where I would have to manually turn off the machine using the power button. I was not going to live like that so I downgraded back to 1709. I’ve been wondering when the big day would arrive for me to have to do the 1803 upgrade dance again and I was plenty worried about it. Luckily, for me, the upgrade had been fixed and my machine is operating perfectly. I am very lucky. (so far…)

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Great Lake Bunyip

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Thank you very much for sharing this information.

It is very helpful knowing what to expect when the time comes for the upgrade.

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An hour later I came back from my walk and there was the large white box telling me it was ready to upgrade. No choice – so I let it do its thing.

 

Actually I think you can.

Go to the services on the administrative console and stop the Windows Update service. Then delete the contents of the C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Dowload folder.

(if you need help, the procedure is here: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-clear-softwaredistribution-folder-windows-10)

With this, there will be no files for the upgrade to go on.

 

Then you can restart the Windows Update service or restart the computer.

Then run WUShowhide and hide the 1803 upgrade.

 

This has worked for me on Windows 10 1709. But after in a matter of time the 1803 upgrade option will pop up again.

 

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columbia2011

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Is it possible that some of these settings are ignored if you manual check for updates? Seems to me I ran into this awhile back where I had set a PC to metered connection but when I went to Windows update and did a manual update it ignored the metered setting? Maybe someone could clarify if these settings only apply to Windows auto update ?

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So is wushowhide becoming of no use too?

“1803 was hidden using the wushowhide as usual”\

 

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I tried preventing the 1803 upgrade on my 10 Home netbook with wushowhide, and it was futile – from what I can tell, they (MS) unhide the updates or push them out with a changed bit or byte here or there (same as they do with the KB2952664 update which causes it to reappear in WU if you’ve previously Hidden it). It really is just an absurd dog and pony show that MS is pulling. I hid the 1803 update multiple times and it would show up again within a few days, wanting to install.

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Wushowhide has been working fine on my Win 10 Pro.  1803 staying hidden, and with Group Policy set to disable automatic updates, no updating happens until I push the “Check for Updates” button.  No metered connection thingy required!

My Win 10 Home laptop got blindsided with an 1803 download a while back, following a 1709 update.  So I just let 1803 install, and it seemed to work fine, so I just left it.  So far, so good.

But yes, if you are running Win 10 Home, your options are quite limited now…

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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My neighbors computer got infected with 1803 despite having the metered connection set and 1803 hidden in wushowhide. This was several weeks ago. Without having daily access to the computer I’ve about given up on trying to control the Microsoft virus.

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That’s it! This has got to stop! I don’t care about regulations, rules, protocol or all that ****! Windows/Microsoft are going too far to force us to conform to new update! WUSHOWHIDE allows us to hide updates/upgrades! If they find a way to get through to our computers-THEN I SAY WE TAKE THE FIGHT TO THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE, TO THEIR OFFICES! TO EVERYTHING! WE THE USERS WILL NOT STAND TO have our machines conform!

MVP Edit: Please read Lounge Rules regarding language.

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Great Lake Bunyip

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On two of my 4 systems with version 1709, Windows Update services will be turned on even if I have stopped and disabled it. Then, every few days, if I am away from the system for 4-5 hours, Windows will give a warning screen that an update will occur in 30 minutes or so. If I do not see that warning and take action by turning off Windows update service, the update (download and reboot) will occur.

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:Dusting her hands with a grin.: Well now I just spent about 10 minutes talking to Microsoft chat support AND I GAVE EM A VERY GOOD ear on my opinion on forced upgrading, showing them a few links on issues with 1803 and whatnot and told them other stuff in the polite manner.

I know they may or may not listen, BUT IT FEELS SO GOOD TO TELL em off about how their turning users into their own techies because their lazy to fix their bugs in new updates.

I say I am pretty proud of myself to tell em off like that. AND HOPEFULLY THEY TAKE what I said and the blog articles to heart.

Just in case I am saving my files onto my usb drive

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Great Lake Bunyip

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Make full backup — full. backup. to. external. hard. drive.

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender

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Confirm. Have meter connection set on Windows 10 Home and Windows Update force and update without any warning. It ignored the meter connection setting.

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Another MS lemming…On a metered wireless connection and windows update services disabled and stopped, running Win10 Home v1709 build16299 since 4/28/18, Without warning v1803 build17134 was downloaded and installed on this laptop 8/20/18.  I’ve been waiting for MS-Defcon to go up to level 4-5, now it’s cross your fingers time!

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Great Lake Bunyip

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Fought off a Win10 upgrade “nag Message” by hiding the offending upgrade using Windows update Mini Tool back in May, never been bothered since. However I am currently on 1709 Pro, clean install, Metered enabled, CBB, 30 + 365, GPOL set to “notify and ask” #2, currently running about a month behind on Cumm. updates (fine for me) No other “counter measures” or dismemberment of the WUD system what so ever. Did notice a discrepancy when I hid the offending update and it could be what M$ is doing this time round. We all know that its a given that any alterations to the WUD System and/or Registry can happen at update time, are they doing this to Metered as well? Got lazy here and don’t always check if Metered is still Metered alas. If previously hidden are they changing the “MetaData” with the upgrade update. Entirely possible, I just have WUMT run now at every “Boot up/Logon” before 1709 Pro/Home gets in to checking updates and so far so good, I guess the real test is just round the Corner when 1809 rears its head, Not exactly a nice thing to do is “hood wink” or coerce Win 10 users in to 1803 and then a month or so later 1809, and I read above Office 2013 + 2010 are having “fun and Games” not good, fingers crossed here My Office 2010 is still running like a champ.

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anonymous wrote:

:Dusting her hands with a grin.: Well now I just spent about 10 minutes talking to Microsoft chat support AND I GAVE EM A VERY GOOD ear on my opinion on forced upgrading, showing them a few links on issues with 1803 and whatnot and told them other stuff in the polite manner. I know they may or may not listen, BUT IT FEELS SO GOOD TO TELL em off about how their turning users into their own techies because their lazy to fix their bugs in new updates. I say I am pretty proud of myself to tell em off like that. AND HOPEFULLY THEY TAKE what I said and the blog articles to heart. Just in case I am saving my files onto my usb drive

They listen as that’s what customer service does. The company itself no longer cares what consumers want. Their cash cow future is the Enterprise with Microsoft 365, not consumers.

GreatAndPowerfulTech

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Great Lake Bunyip

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But you do not alienate customers if at all possible. As home users become more tolerant of other OSes (phone or computer) they will be less loyal to MS when irritated enough. But many of them are also users at work; some even in IT. Knowing there are options available and with some familiarity with them, migrating (while a pain) will be better tolerated than a few years ago. Also, the cloud makes the OS less relevant which also lessens the migration pain.

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Windows Upgrade Assistant is your friend.  It is installed on Windows 10 to help your machine receive the periodic Windows 10 feature updates when your normal Windows update mechanisms seem to be malfunctioning OR intentionally disabled.

Windows Upgrade Assistant will install new feature upgrades when Microsoft decides it’s time to flip the switch regardless of  your attempts to block updates.  You can uninstall the Windows Upgrade Assistant if you like but it will be promptly reinstalled.

It’s not your computer anymore.  Get used to it.

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I just thought of something. are any of you guys using anti-spyware tools like O&O ShutUp10 to disable telemetry entirely?
perhaps that might be the reason why 1803 upgrades are being forced upon, regardless of windows update deferral settings or whether metered connections are turned on or off.

remember this Computerworld article from earlier this year:
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3261570/microsoft-windows/microsoft-forces-win10-1709-upgrades-on-pcs-set-to-restrict-telemetry.html

aww the hidden dangers of setting telemetry (or Diagnostic Data level) to 0 in Win10; doing that seems to actually encourage unconditional forced Win10 upgrades instead of the opposite

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Great Lake Bunyip

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@ep thanks for that reminder it was a timely reminder about avoiding Forced upgrades. I seem to recall my self reading that and after amending WinAero Tweaker not to block all Telemetry, in fact for Win10 Pro1709 and a Home VHD I just set to “Basic” Yeah I know it goes against the grain here about more Snooping from M$ that I really don’t like but I have only had to fight off one attempt to upgrade on both 10 Pro/Home 1709’s and it was hidden with WUMT in both cases. Sticking my neck out here to postulate if you dismember your WUD and telemetry settings, they cause a change in the Reg that either may not recognise that the update is hidden or the OS its self just accepts blithely anything offered. Most of the “Nuts and Bolts” is, I will freely admit, beyond me. As for setting Telemetry in the GPOL, for those that have it, Win’s 10 Pro and upwards, read the small print attached to the Telemetry GPOL it plainly says its Enterprise only so it will have no effect on Edu and Pro even if you set it.

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My wife’s computer was set to metered and she was not happy that she was forced to take a break from her work she was trying to do when it restarted itself to install 1803.

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Windows 10 Home and Pro set to meter connection were force to updates. MS seems to ignore the setting.

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I’m pretty sure the situation I’ve reported is related to our Azure sync. We had another situation as you may recall on August 16 where Azure was not allowing portal logins.

Ever since “Microsoft 365” has been announced there has been a flurry of activity and changes being made to Azure. If you do not have Azure as a variable in your environment then it’s possible you may not run into this situation. Just a guess.

I’ve never had an OS upgrade trash an Office install to the point that we have to re-image the computer. Welcome to the future of Microsoft 365.

Red Ruffnsore

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I think it should be clear by now, if not earlier : If you are using a version of Windows 10 that is not LTSB/LTSC, then you WILL be vulnerable to these “unwelcome” feature upgrades, often at a most inconvenient time.

It is up to Microsoft to honor any delay/defer settings you may have set (Pro or above), and if you set the Telemetry setting to 0 (only for Enterprise and Education), then these settings are ignored anyway. The only currently effective way to stop these feature upgrades, as far as I can see, is to disable Windows Update in the Group Policy editor, which also means that users of the Home version have NO foolproof way of stopping them, except possibly the Windows Update Blocker tool mentioned above.

If Windows Update Blocker 1.1 really does work with Windows 10 Home, that would be nice for them. But will Microsoft simply configure the Windows Update Service and other related services to always enabled and prevent them from being disabled in future versions of Windows 10?

If you want to keep your computer YOURS and have full control over what and when updates will be applied, then try to refrain from using Windows 10.

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

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Woody,  As you know, I am running Windows 10 Pro Version 1709 with a metered connection and quality updates set back 30 days and feature updates set back 269 days.  According to Windows Update -> View Installed Update History, Windows 10 Pro tried to install the 2018-07 quality update (KB4338825) 4 times on August 16, failing the last time with error code 0x80240034.

Windows Update  Update Status is showing KB4338825 is awaiting install and so are three other updates, which all failed with error code 0x8024a206 : 1)  Windows MSRT July 2018, 2) 2018-07 Security Update for Adobe Flash Player and 3) 2018-06 Update (KB4023057).  These four updates have all been waiting for several days with no sign of any change.

In other words, Windows Update for Windows 10 Pro Version 1709 is working correctly on my system.

Just thought that I should report this because some messages in this thread do not mention whether or not they are using Windows 10 Home.  I have to believe that all reports of forced upgrades are for Windows 10 Home Version 1709 that is being upgraded to Windows 10 Home Version 1803.

Hope this helps.

Jonathan Handler

 

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