American Megatrend UEFI and BIOS [Legacy] questions for youse all

Topic

New Reply

1/2/2015: Added the below in the first original post to avoid “forcing everybody” to the bottom of this thread.

AMI Aptio F6 BIOS [Antec VSK3000E desktop] Win7Pro [Retail]

I have AMI Aptio F6 BIOS in my Antec VSK3000E desktop, running Windows 7 Professional [Retail, not OEM]. Belarc reports: Boot Mode: Legacy BIOS in UEFI & UEFI: American Megatrends Inc. F6 08/03/2013 & Board: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. Q87M-D2H.
I have tweaked UEFI/BIOS combine to reflect as much BIOS as possible.

My question concerns the three Boot Options, and the Boot Options Priority; apparently within the Legacy-BIOS portion.

I would like to set Boot Options to:
external USB FD
external USB CDDVD device
external USB stick [bootable]
internal CDDVD reader/writer [also has BluRay playing ability]
internal CDDVD reader/writer [does not have BluRay playing ability]
internal hard-drive [has System Reserved partition, Cdrive partition, Ddrive partition]

Because I do not at all understand the choices that are found in the Options and Priority blocks, I have no idea on how to “write” the above 6 choices into Boot Options and Boot Options Priority.

———————-original post——————————-
My desktop has Windows 7 Pro and American Megatrend UEFI/BIOS. I have some questions for youse all who know about UEFI and BIOS settings. I placed my question-set here because I’m interested in maximizing safety, stability within my paid-for Microsoft Windows 7 Professional OS.

Question: If UEFI’s main advantage is in the Secure Boot, what devices [USB FD, USB stick, internal or external CD/DVD, network card, hard-drive] can boot the desktop, then I really do not want UEFI? Are any other reasons to have UEFI?
Question: If I decide to have only UEFI, are there any settings you would recommend based on your experience?
Question: If I decide to have only BIOS, are there any settings you would recommend based on your experience?
I’ll stop here, I will follow this thread closely in bitsNpieces.

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin, revisted

Reply | Quote

Replies

I really do not want UEFI? Are any other reasons to have UEFI?

UEFI is BETTER than the old time BIOS. It offers much more config settings than BIOS and in an easier way to get at it.
If you are purchasing a new machine you will not have any choice. UEFI is in your future.

Question: If I decide to have only UEFI, are there any settings you would recommend based on your experience?

You’re not understanding UEFI. There are no specific “settings”, neither are there any in BIOS.
If it’s safty you are thinking of, then only disable secure boot when a boot repair or config is needed.

Question: If I decide to have only BIOS, are there any settings you would recommend based on your experience?

You can keep your BIOS only for as long as you have a BIOS based motherboard, and
they are going away fast.

If you want to maximize safety and stability in UEFI:
1. Stability: Don’t overclock your system.
2. Safety: Disable fast/secure boot only when needed, then re-enable.
3. Leave your partitions alone.
4. Set your OS up with a log-on password
5. Set UEFI access up with a password (optional-not neccessary).

Reply | Quote

…Question: If UEFI’s main advantage is in the Secure Boot, what devices [USB FD, USB stick, internal or external CD/DVD, network card, hard-drive] can boot the desktop, then I really do not want UEFI?…

UEFI’s “secure boot” feature pretty-much rules out booting from any device other than the primary (master) HDD.

So the simple answer to your “then I really do not want UEFI?” question is “No, you probably don’t need or want UEFI’s ‘Secure Boot’ feature.

AFAIK from what I have come to understand about UEFI, its main rationale is to make it much more difficult for an intruder (malicious co-worker, prankster, data harvester) to gain access to the system by bypassing any security measures applied.

I.e.: with the traditional BIOS it was quite easy for a knowledgable intruder to gain access, even if a BIOS password had been set. UEFI makes it much more difficult to gain access to low-level settings.

UEFI has advantages for those who operate in corporate/company network environments, but for the average home user it is hard to see any real advantage.

…Are any other reasons to have UEFI?…

Maybe a slightly faster boot time, otherwise none.

…Question: If I decide to have only UEFI, are there any settings you would recommend based on your experience?
…

No.

…
Question: If I decide to have only BIOS, are there any settings you would recommend based on your experience?…

Yes. Turn off “Secure Boot” and choose “legacy boot” settings that allow you to boot from devices other than just the primary HDD.

NOTE: the above assumes that the computer is located in a secure environment (such as a home or a constantly-supervised office); i.e.: in normal circumstances an unauthorised casual intruder could not gain physical access to the computer.

Reply | Quote

Thanks to you both for such informative comments! My biggest objection to UEFI is that I cannot at all understand the three boot options and their respective sub-menus. In legacy, I clearly understand 1-2-3-4 order of boot, I can “move up/move down” the choices to suit.

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin, revisted

Reply | Quote

Your motherboard has a combination UEFI/BIOS selection, which many had in the transition period to UEFI. However, you cannot use both; it’s an either/or situation. Your desktop is most likely BIOS/MBR enabled.

UEFI works only with GPT partitions, BIOS works with MBR partitions. A HDD can be partitioned in one or the other, but not both. Windows cannot boot directly from GPT, hence the small EFI partition (formatted FAT32) that is required for Windows on a GPT system. UEFI boots the EFI partition, and the EFI partition then boots Windows.

So, if your system is MBR/BIOS, you cannot change to UEFI simply by selecting it in Settings; it is considerably more complex than that. The thread Adventures with UEFI is a synopsis of converting my laptop from BIOS to UEFI. Backing into a dual boot in UEFI has some additional information that might be useful.

All OEM machines with Windows 8/8.1 pre-installed are UEFI/GPT with Secure Boot enabled (a Microsoft requirement). I doubt if there are any BIOS/UEFI motherboards being made anymore. I’m fairly certain that they are all strictly UEFI by now.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

UEFI works only with GPT partitions

I am not sure you really meant to say what it sounds like you are saying (at least to me); which is a MBR boot drive can not be used with a UEFI . UEFI has a backwords compatibility with MBR drives. Not all the features maybe available and an MBR drive is still size limited.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

Reply | Quote

I am not sure you really meant to say what it sounds like you are saying (at least to me); which is a MBR boot drive can not be used with a UEFI . UEFI has a backwords compatibility with MBR drives. Not all the features maybe available and an MBR drive is still size limited.

It depends on the implementation of UEFI by the motherboard manufacturer (and on Microsoft). From Wikipedia, “For backwards compatibility, most of the UEFI implementations also support booting from MBR-partitioned disks, through the Compatibility Support Module (CSM) which provides legacy BIOS compatibility.”

However, that bypasses many UEFI capabilities, not just the advantages of GPT. In other words, it is no longer UEFI, it is for all practical purposes, BIOS. UEFI can read files from the EFI partition on a GPT disk; there is no such capability in BIOS/MBR compatibility. In UEFI with an MBR disk, the machine won’t boot, and “no boot device” will be the error. UEFI is looking for an EFI System Partition on the hard disk for bootloader directions.

And again, from Wikipedia, “With the release of Windows 8 in October 2012, Microsoft’s certification requirements now require that computers include firmware that implements the UEFI specification. Furthermore, if the computer supports the “Connected Standby” feature of Windows 8 (which allows devices to have power management comparable to smartphones, with an almost instantaneous return from standby mode), then the firmware is not permitted to contain a Compatibility Support Module (CSM). As such, systems that support Connected Standby are incapable of booting Legacy BIOS operating systems.”

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

Thanks bbearen.
So if you have one of those dual motherboards just stick with BIOS,
because the implementation of UEFI on these boards are piecemeal at best.

Reply | Quote

Here is the BIOS version, date & ID; and the Boot Option Priorities [1st screen]

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin, revisted

Reply | Quote

Q87M-D2H is a Gigabyte motherboard version number. 8A02AG0Y doesn’t return any search hits, and “not found” on the American Megatrends support page.

Open an elevated Command Prompt, open DISKPART, then list disk. In the resulting table, if your system is UEFI, you will see a column for GPT on the far right, and an asterisk for each disk that is GPT. If there are no asterisks, or the GPT heading is not shown, your system is BIOS/MBR.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

In another BIOS, it was simple to specify: usb fd, usb stick, usb cd/dvd, hard-drive, network card.

In my current AMI BIOS, Boot Option Priorities, Options 1, 2 & 3 pretty much have similar choices.

I simply do not understand 3 of 4 choices, I do not know how to fix Options 1,2,3 nor the others below.

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin, revisted

Reply | Quote

I think this is an overview of the six options I have…

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin, revisted

Reply | Quote

bbearren, my diskpart within admin dos-box does not give me anything but the list of available switches. I just now remembered I didn’t post this, until now.

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin, revisted

Reply | Quote

bbearren, my diskpart within admin dos-box does not give me anything but the list of available switches. I just now remembered I didn’t post this, until now.

DISKPART has to load from an elevated command prompt (right-click Command Prompt and select “Run as administrator”); type “diskpart” (without the quotes), and wait for it to load. Then you will get a DISKPART prompt. Next type “list disk” (without the quotes). That will show any GPT disk (as seen in the graphic; there is no disc in my optical drive, so diskpart doesn’t list it).

38726-DISKPART

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

Furthermore, if the computer supports the “Connected Standby” feature of Windows 8 (which allows devices to have power management comparable to smartphones, with an almost instantaneous return from standby mode), then the firmware is not permitted to contain a Compatibility Support Module (CSM). As such, systems that support Connected Standby are incapable of booting Legacy BIOS operating systems.”

I guess we knew they were headed there..

Also interesting..

There are additional security-specific requirements, for example for memory to be soldered to the motherboard to prevent cold boot attack vectors that involve removing memory from the machine, as well as support for Secure Boot.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

Reply | Quote

here’s my dispart info, I cannot tell where GPT or MBR info is…

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin, revisted

Reply | Quote

here’s my dispart info, I cannot tell where GPT or MBR info is…

It’s MBR, because the GPT column is empty. Notice in the graphic I posted there is an asterisk for each disk in the GPT column. My system is UEFI/GPT.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

bbearren, thanks for your help! It is hard for me to see detail in jpgs from time to time. 🙂
Now, I need to find out what those things in the Boot Options mean…

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin, revisted

Reply | Quote

AMI Aptio F6 BIOS [Antec VSK3000E desktop] Win7Pro [Retail]

I have AMI Aptio F6 BIOS in my Antec VSK3000E desktop, running Windows 7 Professional [Retail, not OEM]. Belarc reports: Boot Mode: Legacy BIOS in UEFI & UEFI: American Megatrends Inc. F6 08/03/2013 & Board: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. Q87M-D2H.
I have tweaked UEFI/BIOS combine to reflect as much BIOS as possible.

My question concerns the three Boot Options, and the Boot Options Priority; apparently within the Legacy-BIOS portion.

I would like to set Boot Options to:
external USB FD
external USB CDDVD device
external USB stick [bootable]
internal CDDVD reader/writer [also has BluRay playing ability]
internal CDDVD reader/writer [does not have BluRay playing ability]
internal hard-drive [has System Reserved partition, Cdrive partition, Ddrive partition]

Because I do not at all understand the choices that are found in the Options and Priority blocks,
I have no idea on how to “write” the above 6 choices into Boot Options and Boot Options Priority.

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin, revisted

Reply | Quote

…
I have no idea on how to “write” the above 6 choices into Boot Options and Boot Options Priority…

I don’t remember seeing a Gigabyte motherboard that didn’t have a option to press the F12 key at boot to choose a boot device other than the primary boot device set in the BIOS/UEFI.

As your motherboard appears to have an EFI “BIOS” you will need to enable “CSM Support” to allow booting from CD/DVD, USB, etc (see page 25 of your motherboard’s http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_ga-q87m-d2h_e.pdf User Manual). You might also have to adjust the “Boot Mode Selection” (also p.25).

Reply | Quote

…
I have no idea on how to “write” the above 6 choices into Boot Options and Boot Options Priority…

I don’t remember seeing a Gigabyte motherboard that didn’t have a option to press the F12 key at boot to choose a boot device other than the primary boot device set in the BIOS/UEFI.

As your motherboard appears to have an EFI “BIOS” you will need to enable “CSM Support” to allow booting from CD/DVD, USB, etc (see page 25 of your motherboard’s User Manual). You might also have to adjust the “Boot Mode Selection” (also p.25).

Reply | Quote

I don’t remember seeing a Gigabyte motherboard that didn’t have a option to press the F12 key at boot to choose a boot device other than the primary boot device set in the BIOS/UEFI.

As your motherboard appears to have an EFI “BIOS” you will need to enable “CSM Support” to allow booting from CD/DVD, USB, etc (see page 25 of your motherboard’s User Manual). You might also have to adjust the “Boot Mode Selection” (also p.25).

His disk is formatted MBR, and EFI doesn’t boot Windows on MBR unless it’s in legacy emulation. It’s not running in UEFI.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

Any replies to your cross-post at http://www.sevenforums.com/hardware-devices/357226-ami-aptio-f6-bios-antec-vsk3000e-desktop-win7pro-retail.html#post2974583?

I’m not familiar with your mainboard but if it allows the use of a function key to give access to a boot menu then, in my opinion, it makes no sense to have the hard disk as the 6th boot device. It just means that on power-up, 5 devices (which may or may not be available) have to be checked for bootable media before booting from the hard disk. How often do you NOT boot from the hard disk?

Update: Apparently the AMI Aptio uses F10 for access to the boot menu. If so then you can set your hard disk as the first boot device (for speed) but amend it at will (using F10) when you need to.

Hope this helps….

Reply | Quote

I thank all of youse guys who posted shofar! And, I downloaded & bookmarked those two reference URLs. Will let you all know my progress, again thanks!! So far, the other three places where I posted my AMI bios Q – has reads but no writes yet 🙂

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin, revisted

Reply | Quote