A Windows veteran looks at Win8 Consumer Preview

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	TOP STORY A Windows veteran looks at Win8 Consumer Preview
	By Woody Leonhard If you download and install Windows 8 Consumer Preview, released late last week, I can almost guarantee that you won’t like it. I know only a handful of experienced Windows users (who don’t work for or with Microsoft) who say they like Windows 8. But it’s the future, eh?

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The full text of this column is posted at WindowsSecrets.com/top-story/a-windows-veteran-looks-at-win8-consumer-preview/ (opens in a new window/tab).

Columnists typically cannot reply to comments here, but do incorporate the best tips into future columns.[/td]

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Win8 may be great for an iPad type device and even for a bit of a word processing. The problem will come for organisations like ours where we do civil engineering designs on CAD, and massive spreadsheets, and databases. You certainly can’t do that with the “Greasy Thumb” of Woody’s column.

I wonder if MS won’t have to split into their NT / 95 clone type OS’s again to support those of us who need the platform that we have been using for so long?

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I installed the customer preview, and after a day or so returned back to win7.

My main concern is not the Metro UI, like you said, I can get used to it and can see some advantages in it – especially for small-display machines.

My main issue is that when using Metro-UI you cannot really multi-task (and I mean the user – not the computer). At max. you can open two applications on a screen.

I ususally have an IDE opened, as well as one or more design documents and email open on my screen. And I am a by far not the most demanding – a lot of people I know have multiple documents, web-sites, emails and excel sheets opened in the same time.
Metro UI does not support this, it is designed to work on small screens where you do not have the real estate to run more than two “apps” side by side.
Also the app switching (what used to be ALT-TAB) does not work well when you want to have a mix of desktop and metro-style apps

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Wow. This hasn’t even been in people’s hands for a week and already Woody is bashing it? I also hated the interface at first and couldn’t reconcile the Metro Start screen with traditional desktop computing. Once I learned a few simple and easy customizations and tricks, its really pretty decent. I’m envisioning updated form factors like a convertible laptop/tablet.

BTW, this is BETA software. If something doesn’t work right, report it. MS needs to know that there are issues on things like an HP TouchSmart.
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Win8 may be great for an iPad type device and even for a bit of a word processing. The problem will come for organisations like ours where we do civil engineering designs on CAD, and massive spreadsheets, and databases. You certainly can’t do that with the “Greasy Thumb” of Woody’s column.

I wonder if MS won’t have to split into their NT / 95 clone type OS’s again to support those of us who need the platform that we have been using for so long?

What problem? Have you tried the desktop with your apps? Or are you making assumptions based on what you have read? I’m running several photo editing and RAW conversion apps. Not as heavy duty as CAD, but certainly not small potatoes. They run perfectly fine.

One thing Woody failed to mention in his article is that Windows Server 8 Beta was also released the same day. The enhancements in Active Directory, virtualization, and a few other things are very telling. MS has not abandoned desktop users, especially not on the corporate level. As an administrator, I’m looking forward to what’s coming for our organization in the next couple of years.

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Wow. I’ve been programming/working with computers since the 70’s. After reading Woody’s column, I feel like saying, “Just give me a command line interface please.” If the final Windows 8 release is as bad (rigid metro interface) as the initial offering then I may move over to a Mac. I can’t believe I am saying this. I don’t even like Apple stuff. However their video and audio editing tools on the Mac seem to be awesome. So maybe it is time.

I haven’t looked at Linux for a while so I don’t know if products like Sony Vegas or Adobe Photoshop run there. I know there are Linux alternatives (like GIMP for photo editing) but I would like to stay with products I know.

Guess I’ll ride out Windows 7 until I decide what non-Windows platform to pursue. Seems like Microsoft could keep from shooting itself in the foot by simply allowing an (easily available) option to choose the Metro or Classic user interface. Woody’s decription of how to get to and use the classic interface is a non starter. If that’s all the final release has, then I’m gone.

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I am not sure what the problem is? If you are totally satisfied with Win7, why go to 8? I am 68 and at first try said ” What the h*** is this” But after a week I am getting used to it and can see some advantages. All of the other updates took time to get comfortable with. You need to give it a real try before tossing it. Personally I see no need to leave Win7. It is as good or better than XP ever was, so stay with it if you are comfortable. The younger crowd will beg to differ and adopt Win8 quite readily. Especially the smart phone/tablet crowd. Good for them. I too miss the START orb, but have gotten used to the new way after giving it a real try. But for real productivity Win7 will serve us well for a long time.:rolleyes:

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I installed Win8 Preview on a netbook recently. The netbook had come with Vista, then had Win7 Home Premium installed over top and the preview was installed over that.

The netbook was pretty slow, but usable before the install, since I had added and removed a lot of programs over time and made the mistake of running an “optimization” program on it at one point in the past. The installation went perfectly and I have had a chance to play with the result.

I should explain here that there are six screens in front of me — three computers including the netbook, and three large monitors attached to them. The computers are connected over a wireless router using Synergy software and managed with one mouse and one keyboard. The cursor moves seamlessly from screen to screen and I have defined no corners or edges, so when I go off a bottom corner on one, the cursor appears on the next screen.

This probably contributed to my puzzlement when the computer came up with the metro screen, since metro mouse activities involve moving to precise areas on the fringe of the screen. At any rate, I did manage to get to my desktop which had been preserved from the previous O/S and which was identical except for a missing start orb.

I had the presence of mind to press F1 and help of sorts appeared, but the first question anyone would ask, about the start button, was not answered. I did, however manage to get a link in the help system to a forum which deals with exactly that: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-desktop/what-happened-to-the-start-icon-on-the-desktop-in/74cc7983-20e9-4a6e-a7d9-a832d4187388

As for performance, I was pleased to see that the system runs much better with Win8 than it ever did on Win7 and that I can even run some of the Windows eye candy on this rather limited machine. Under Win 7, I had to turn off almost every appearance feature except aliasing on type to get acceptable performance. I can’t believe that I am now running transparency and shadows, etc. (I’ll probably turn them off again once the novelty wears off) IMO, whatever is under the hood is running better than 7, and I love 7.

I should mention that I had to leave the machine on for several days so that the indexing and other background activities could complete before the processor usage dropped down from nearly 100% much of the time.

BTW, to anyone looking at Linux for an escape from Windows, I can only say “been there done that”, and you will most likely be disappointed after using Windows. I have run many of the various distros over the years and they are good if your needs are few and you don’t do much heavy lifting or customization, but nothing beats Windows as a desktop machine IMO for healing itself and flexibility. Updates in Windows are painless and seldom break anything important. Not so any customized Linux I have used. My advice is to invest some time into Win 8 and learn to work with it and bend it to your will. Doing so will take much less time than trying to keep a Linux running and up to date. I have a few busted Linuxes around here on various machines and they are not fixable, by me anyhow, or by anyone on the various Linux help forums. I can’t say that I have ever had a recent Windows install that could not be salvaged. (Touch wood).

I expect we’ll see changes in this pre-release before Win 8 goes gold. Personally, I would like to see the start button reinstated as an option at least, but if it isn’t there are several workarounds and there will be more.

The machine I installed on is a play-around machine and one that was almost useless the way it was. It is working well now and I will continue to tinker until I get it the way I want.

Will I install Win 8 preview on any of my everyday workhorse machines? Not very likely at present, but after I figure things out better, maybe.

Will I buy Win 8 when it goes gold? Probably. I have upgraded to almost every new version of Windows when it came out ever since Windows first came out. Not only that, I almost always installed over an existing O/S, always with results I found acceptable.

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Attempting to compare the performance of W7 to W8 using a netbook, is like testing a rat against an old mousetrap or a ferret – not apples to apples my friend. W8 is HORRIBLE on several “true” PC’s – both 32 & 64-bit, and offers nothing for IT professionals to even get excited about (including performance).

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I happen to like Win8 and I have my old Start with the old behavior in the old place thanks to StartmenuX and Startbutton, which I also keep pinnedvto my task part as a reresh of the running win8 instance can still knock out my poor defenseless non-win8 button.

That forum is a typical forum, full of defensive explanations by the perpetrator and the fanboys of the deerd, fine whines by the victims, and is we are lucky (I refuse to read 28 pages on a relatively trivial issue, as my 3rd party tools fixed it for me (refered to above startbutton startmenyX)) MAYBE a tip on a real fix. Touch rerady is one thing touch orientation only is another and this is the future of our product look and wep yet a third. I haven’t figured out which of those MS intends but I am VERY curious LOL.

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I had Windows 8 installed for less than a day and reverted back to Win7. I had it installed on an HP TouchSmart tm2. It’s clumsy and sluggish going between Metro and desk top. I had to use the touch pad to highlight Metro from the desk top. My finger wouldn’t bring it up. I need my start button. Maybe they’ll have it set up to user preference for the start button for those of us who want it.

I also wonder how its going to affect the maintaining of a website. I use a desktop with 3 22″ monitors for updating my website

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Thanks to Woody! Not only have I been convinced to not try out the Win 8 Consumer Preview, I am just about convinced to not give the final version of Win8 a try, and to keep my Win 7 Ultra x64 systems running as long as possible. When they no longer support my requisite hardware at that time, I am seriously contemplating switching everything over to a Mac platform: HW and of course SW. I’ve been eyeing the Mac for a long time now for serious graphic work, but cannot afford the SW switchover fees to maintain two versions of my SW.

I guess that deep down I’m hoping MS will realize they are making a serious business mistake with this new philosophy and put it with their now defunct “Bob”.

6rtury

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Does M$ ever survey real world users to find out what we want and need? I can see that by the time Win 7 is no longer supported I’ll be buying a Mac. Tablets may be fine for limited use, but not for spreadsheets, highly formatted docs, or photo and graphic work. I use two monitors and usually have 3 to 5 apps going at the same time. Win8 will definitely not work for me. I’m so sick of M$ shoving their idea of how we should work down our throats. I HATE the Office Ribbon and am buying a third party app to be able to go back to the ‘old’ menu. My employer gave us a copy to Office 10 for our home systems – I never bothered installing it. If it weren’t for compatibility issues I’d be sticking with an older version of Office.

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Hi Woody,

I would like to add to the Win8 CP installation options a new one I just successfully employed: Create a Virtual Hard Disk (.vhd) file and install into it. It provides both the performance of a regular partition and, at the same time, the insulation of a Virtual Machine to some extent.

I learned about this option at http://www.windows7hacker.com/index.php/2011/09/native-vhd-boot-to-windows-8-developer-preview-with-windows-7/

I would add just one thing to the instructions provided by this link. Once the vhd file has been created, it must be initialized in the Disk Management snap-in. Right click the attached vhd partition in the lower-right part of the snap-in and click initialize. This is a one time process that is part of the vhd partition creation process. This must be done prior to installing Win8 CP into it.

Charles.

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Hi Woody,

I would like to add to the Win8 CP installation options a new one I just successfully employed: Create a Virtual Hard Disk (.vhd) file and install into it. It provides both the performance of a regular partition and, at the same time, the insulation of a Virtual Machine to some extent.

I learned about this option at http://www.windows7hacker.com/index.php/2011/09/native-vhd-boot-to-windows-8-developer-preview-with-windows-7/

I would add just one thing to the instructions provided by this link. Once the vhd file has been created, it must be initialized in the Disk Management snap-in. Right click the attached vhd partition in the lower-right part of the snap-in and click initialize. This is a one time process that is part of the vhd partition creation process. This must be done prior to installing Win8 CP into it.

Charles.

Why not just install Win 8 CP in an actual partition as a Dual-Boot. That’s what I did, and it works just fine. You have to use an option in the download installer to make an ISO or a bootable USB Stick, but after that, you have an install DVD or USB installer.

-- rc primak

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I find it hard to believe when people have such radical opinions based on other people’s opinions of products they themselves have not used. If an OS is an important tool, either professionally or for personal use, try it out for yourselves.

As Doc Brown posted so correctly, do you realize that the Windows desktop is still available, just as in 7, for people who don’t want to use Metro? If anything, that desktop will be as good as you get with 7, if not better?

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I tried windows 8 customer preview and I hate it. You have to take two or three steps to do what I could have normally done in one step. You call that progress. Microsoft is going to see their sales of windows 8 to be the biggest flop in the history of new operating systems. How many people have a touch screen??? This is an operating system that is not geared for the public. It is a very frustrating to use. How many people use the stupid icons that are displayed on their startup page??? When you click on the icons on the start page nothing really happens…. I think this is geared for the IPAD type of user, but I don’t think that 95% of the market of current systems are ready for this type of operating system. MS may think that their revenue has dropped over the last couple years, this crazy operating system will cause it to drop even further, and is going to be the biggest disaster in windows history.

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In Woody’s conclusion, he said:

These massive changes, well under way, affect all Windows users — but they especially impact us grizzled Windows veterans. Take a look at the Windows 8 Consumer Preview to see where the PC world’s headed. Like it or not, that’s where Microsoft believes the market is. You get to decide whether you want to join.

I’ve followed Woody through all his adventures for many years, have read many of his publications, and tried to keep up with his outstanding commentary.

However, I must disagree with his conclusion: “You get to decide whether you want to join”.

As a moderately knowledgeable end user, I’ve never felt I had any choice, and I feel no different about W8. I do agree with Woody’s resistance to change, however. Indeed, I feel that little has changed for the better since Leading Edge Word Processing, Mosaic, and Nutshell, but I have never felt that I have any choice in whether or not to accept what Microsoft keeps throwing at me, constantly adding new complications and compulsively increasing the number and variety of hoops I have to jump through just to get my work done. I’ve just accepted all that as part of the package, and try to keep my footing through following Woody’s commentary and, on occasion, asking and getting advice from lounge members. As a technical editor, I’ve also gotten fairly good at plowing through to what I need.

But do I think I have any choice? No, not if I’m to keep up with what clients ask of me. They’re more helpless in the face of change than I am and usually, it’s up to me to help them swallow and digest Microsoft’s latest changes.

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I am not sure the interface of windows has anything to do with tablet sales and have no idea why anyone would think that. Seems to that the start menu could be eaisily fit to a tablet. Finger the bottom left of the screen bring up a customisable start menu. Maybe similat to win7 pin items but also add a color to indicate the status or add icon leds for already running or loaded and idle. That would also be better than having to load a task manager to terminate sfuff you do not want running. I have a tablet with Android and it does have a desktop with some app links on it. Maybe I am missing something I can’t see and will not realise till I have a windows 8 tablet but I just can not see it now. The concept or being able to your computer in a size you can take with you is the reason why the devices are so popular as I have a app called slash remote that lets me use my pc from the tablet anf the start menu works fine. Also most of the tablets sync with or talk to the desktops anyway. Why miss out on the portability and buy a new pc when the old one still works, instead get a tablet or a more expensive smart phone and wait till next time to get a new pc. The new interface reminds me of windows3.1 or nt 3.5 maybe because on those system the resources were limited as they are on phones & tablets.

I got both of the windows 8 previews so far, first the developer preview and thought that forced metro screen would be gone with the consumer preview but I was disappointed. I read that win 8 will also be full screen for IE something else i do not like as I use more than one visual item at a time on my screen. A few exceptions are media center and I could not find that on the preview. Maybe the move to small devices and all online storage and applications is the dream of providers as they retain full control and also the cost as the meter can always be running.

If I have to go through that much of a learning experience it might be better to go with Linux as most distro’s are useable after install now. I have heard people say that many times before but a lot are already using it on phones and tablets anyway and you can’t complain about the cost of the desktop versions.

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All of this changing of UI’s reminds me of another one of my pet peeves – retail stores that move departments every year or so – just enough to cause me to spend an extra 30 minutes trying to find things. I’ve made the transition through all of the Windows OS’s other than Vista and I can see how I would hang with MS through Windows 8, unless it will not be able to run corporate software in a manner in which I am accustom. I personally like sitting down to a desktop. Unlike a laptop, it doesn’t not bake the family jewels, run out of juice in the middle of something important, etc. I don’t want an OS that I have to operate with “greasy” thumbs. I like my mouse and keyboard very much, thank you.
Having said all that, if MS pitches an OS at me that I find frustrating, I’ll chuck the entire system and go to MAC. They see to have some sense of continuity about what they are doing. The seem to be proactive, not reactive. Maybe I’m wrong, and maybe I’ll be dead by the time such a decision comes. This I do know, for the average user like myself, I NEVER put beta anythings on my computer. I was burned once and literally had to start from the ground up rebuilding my system. No betas for me.

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Personally, I think Microsoft did themselves a disservice by publicly releasing a very early Beta in the Developer Preview. It had many, many quirks and the integration of the Start Menu was broken. Since then hoards of people have had their expectations skewed by that release. The Consumer Preview is much better, integrating the Start Menu (aka Metro) and allowing very easy switching between the two.

I do use touch devices, but not for Windows. For Windows, I exclusively use keyboard and mouse and currently Windows 8 is starting tho shape up quite well. Yes, there are a few things that need fixed, but this veteran (perhaps not quite as long in the tooth as Woody), is beginning to see promise in the upcoming release.

Desktop is still there and all the apps I’ve loaded run just fine on it. I can remove all the social media junk form the Start Menu, drop “real” apps onto it. One Click and they launch.

In my experience, the key to finding peace with Win8 is to understand that the Start Menu (Metro) is a full screen Start Menu similar to Win7, Vista and earlier. It has additional features for touch, but if you are on keyboard and mouse, it works just fine by dropping down to the desktop or by launching your apps from there.

@mbutler205: if you have been burned using a Beta before, install it in a VM. OK, you will have a small performance hit, but that is probably not enough to kill the opportunity to experience where the OS is going. I’m keeping my installs on VM’s for now until much closer to RTM

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I installed the Developer’s Preview of Windows 8, and Woody is correct…the interface is horrible for mouse & keyboard folks. The Developer’s Preview had a way of bypassing the “Metro” interface and reverting to an interface that carried a striking resemblance to Windows 7. I haven’t heard anyone mention this in regards to the Consumer Preview. I hope it’s still there as there are some interesting new features to ‘8’

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I installed the Developer’s Preview of Windows 8, and Woody is correct…the interface is horrible for mouse & keyboard folks. The Developer’s Preview had a way of bypassing the “Metro” interface and reverting to an interface that carried a striking resemblance to Windows 7. I haven’t heard anyone mention this in regards to the Consumer Preview. I hope it’s still there as there are some interesting new features to ‘8’

as per my previous post, Start Menu Toggle.

-- rc primak

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I cannot believe the graphics in Windows 8 version from what you have shown in your review. Apparently the Microsoft designers don’t have any Apple products to compare quality with. I’ve been a Windows user since the beginning of Microsoft. I now understand why Windows is loosing, they must have fired all of the good graphics designers, as the graphics are so elementery. I was planning on purchasing a new Windows 8 computer around christmas time, but now, I think I’ll just move on to a Apple Computer.

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I remember reading many years ago regarding the fact that other than the operating system, Microsoft basically was last in developing applications for users. It seems this is the direction they are continuing to go…including now the OS.
Some above mention that one needed to give it a try…if you read Woody’s article you will note that he’s been using the Win8 since last September, about 5 months. Shouldn’t it be easier to get used to and be able to use quicker than that.
I think maybe Microsoft thinks dumbing down the system will help those kids and adults who still can spell and put sentences together. Then again Microsoft has the proclivity to build into apps those things it thinks we need and want…like the Ribbon in Office 2007-2010, wherein I spend so much time looking for commands, I end up using the quick access bar and ‘Help’ more often than the ribbon; why in the world is the ribbon different in the different Office apps? I’ve had win7 for much too long for having to still look for the !@#$%^&* commands.
It appears Win8 will be the MS Works of operating systems; “you can only do what we think you need you to do.” :confused:
I know MS is looking for researchers, but are the coders even interested in what they might say? It all seems so disappointing and gives me much less confidence in MS products…which I now have to use in my profession.

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I’ve been using Windows since 3.0, so I think I qualify as a veteran. And I like Windows 8.

I’m currently running it under VirtualBox, but I will be attempting to install it on a touch tablet tomorrow. (A Vibe, currently running Windows 7.)

It’s taken me a while to figure some things out, but I expect that with any new software product. After playing with Metro for a while, my reaction was, “My father-in-law could use this.” I think a lot of users will never need to look under the covers to find the desktop.

Us old dogs? Yep, we’ll probably have to learn a few new tricks. It didn’t take me a whole long time to find out how to bring up a command shell, regedit, and other things I needed to play with.

And as others have pointed out, Microsoft isn’t done with this yet. It’s a bit of a ways to release yet. And you know what happens when a new version of Windows comes out. Independent developers fall all over themselves getting out little products that “fix” the things that people don’t like. So it won’t be too long after release that Windows Secrets posts their first “Must-Have Windows 8 Applications” column.

So please don’t rush to judgement. This is a new world. Don’t resist – adapt. And if anything I suspect that Windows 8 will give new life to PCs instead of killing them. Think of the huge number of people who don’t have PCs, but have tablets and smart phones. Show them a Windows 7 desktop and they’ll go back to their phone. Show them Windws 8 Metro … running on their phone, tablet AND PC, with the same interface and the same apps, and they’ll find that there might be a lot of benefit to having a PC too.

That’s my five cents worth. I’m off to find out how to develop Metro apps. Because an app store where someone can buy my program and run it on their PC, tablet and phone? I think that’s an opportunity knocking.

~~ Grey

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RE: “I know only a handful of experienced Windows users (who don’t work for or with Microsoft) who say they like Windows 8. But it’s the future, eh?

“… But it still might lead to Windows’ demise.”

When Vista first came out, there were those who ballyhooed that it was the future. It would not be surprising if Windows 8 has the same effect the Windows Vista had. Buyers went with XP when they could have had Vista. If my premise is correct, you can expect a lot of people who to go with 7 instead of 8. One major reason that sales have lagged is the economy. Now, with things beginning to look up economically, it would not be surprising if people and business with aging PC’s look at replacing them with those with the Windows 7, instead of the Windows 8 – if they decide to stay with Windows.

Could this be Steve Jobs revenge?

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Personally, I think Microsoft did themselves a disservice by publicly releasing a very early Beta in the Developer Preview. It had many, many quirks and the integration of the Start Menu was broken. Since then hoards of people have had their expectations skewed by that release. The Consumer Preview is much better, integrating the Start Menu (aka Metro) and allowing very easy switching between the two.

I do use touch devices, but not for Windows. For Windows, I exclusively use keyboard and mouse and currently Windows 8 is starting tho shape up quite well. Yes, there are a few things that need fixed, but this veteran (perhaps not quite as long in the tooth as Woody), is beginning to see promise in the upcoming release.

Desktop is still there and all the apps I’ve loaded run just fine on it. I can remove all the social media junk form the Start Menu, drop “real” apps onto it. One Click and they launch.

In my experience, the key to finding peace with Win8 is to understand that the Start Menu (Metro) is a full screen Start Menu similar to Win7, Vista and earlier. It has additional features for touch, but if you are on keyboard and mouse, it works just fine by dropping down to the desktop or by launching your apps from there.

@mbutler205: if you have been burned using a Beta before, install it in a VM. OK, you will have a small performance hit, but that is probably not enough to kill the opportunity to experience where the OS is going. I’m keeping my installs on VM’s for now until much closer to RTM

A Dual-Boot installation avoids the performance hit, and I find Dual-Boot to be easier to manage, especially if I want a backup for rolling back, or a DVD for the Reset feature (used that one four times already with the DP, once with the CP). To each his/her own, but I grew up with multiboot, multi-OS computers, so this is like second-nature to me.

-- rc primak

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A Dual-Boot installation avoids the performance hit, and I find Dual-Boot to be easier to manage, especially if I want a backup for rolling back, or a DVD for the Reset feature (used that one four times already with the DP, once with the CP). To each his/her own, but I grew up with multiboot, multi-OS computers, so this is like second-nature to me.

I agree Bob, for straightforward requirements dual boot is the best way to experience Win8. In the case of mbutler205, he did not say how he got burned by a beta release previously, so going to a VM is a safer fallback.

In the office here, I currently have 11 machines in VM’s (the actual number varies depending on needs), all of which can be run simultaneously to the host OS. All are isolated from each other and from the host. If something bad happens in one, it cannot affect the host. All are backed up since the virtual hard drives are located on my data drive which is automatically backed up on a frequent schedule.

The hardware acceleration in Win8 would be nice to have, but the workstation here is no slouch, and I’m not interested in absolute performance in any of my VM’s – my need is more about technology and functionality.

Closer to Win8 RTM I will probably put together a custom machine so it can run on bare metal and be more representative of what my clients may experience, but for now, in my situation, VM’s give me the safety, security and flexibility at the slight expense of not enjoying the hardware acceleration. Others who do not need my degree of isolation and flexibility and should consider the dual boot method.

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I agree Bob, for straightforward requirements dual boot is the best way to experience Win8. In the case of mbutler205, he did not say how he got burned by a beta release previously, so going to a VM is a safer fallback.

In the office here, I currently have 11 machines in VM’s (the actual number varies depending on needs), all of which can be run simultaneously to the host OS. All are isolated from each other and from the host. If something bad happens in one, it cannot affect the host. All are backed up since the virtual hard drives are located on my data drive which is automatically backed up on a frequent schedule.

The hardware acceleration in Win8 would be nice to have, but the workstation here is no slouch, and I’m not interested in absolute performance in any of my VM’s – my need is more about technology and functionality.

Closer to Win8 RTM I will probably put together a custom machine so it can run on bare metal and be more representative of what my clients may experience, but for now, in my situation, VM’s give me the safety, security and flexibility at the slight expense of not enjoying the hardware acceleration. Others who do not need my degree of isolation and flexibility and should consider the dual boot method.

All good points.

In your situation, and possibly that of mbutler205, there are special configurations which would make VM the best way to go.

I was referring to most home and small business users with laptops or desktops which are relatively autonomous. In our situations, the dual-boot does have the advantages I posted, and fewer drawbacks than in highly-networked situations.

-- rc primak

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I wish I had read Woodys article on W. 8 before I downloaded the iso and burned a disc [got to be similar to Linux?]. Similar it aint, took about 5 minutes to discover that I didnt like it—–the look and the handling just didnt appeal. Then I found a bug, the power off button would only “Restart”, and the cursed W. 8 could not be deleted [not like a Linux iso]. Yes I should have done all the thingies and such like — partitions and sandboxing etc, but I didn’t.

Had to do a re-install to get rid. Think that this download should carry a warning—–“Not suitable for the elderly or people of a nervous disposition”

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So, it has finally come to this for Win users. I tossed (as many have done) the consumer preview, out the window only days after grabbing a copy. Although I liked the interface in general, it is far too restrictive in regards to the needs of “corporate IT” and would not be suitable in 99.9% of those situations. What I don’t understand, is that Windows 7 was a vast improvement in many ways, esp. over Vista, and yes – even XP. For the business user like myself W8 represents a change in course that has no consideration for the professional IT consumer, businesses and all of us power users. As I’ve said before – Mac (and more specifically Apple) must be laughing internally, as they could steal the entire market – as Mac OS looks more and more attractive each day I hear about W8. Why not – it’s a cousin of Linux, and works flawlessly in most server-based roles, including Exchange and networking – guess M$ finally is giving up? as this is how I feel when looking at the pitiful consumer review of W8.

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Woody –

RE: Windows 8 – IT’S ABOUT TIME!

Folks of our generation (I’m likely at the upper end, 73 next b’day, next week) are supposed to hate change. I hate lack of change – I seldom completely finish a project, because I’m always looking for the next neat thing to work on. My first computer experience was a 2048 bit, relay-based machine that dimmed the room lights when executing a total state change (Phila Navy Yard, 1961). After assimilating some of the impact of what I had experienced there, it was downhill the rest of the way.

My initial reaction to Win8 – it’s about time. Whether MS will get it right and finally have the appropriate answer to LemmingWare (i.e., anything Apple does) remains to be seen – MS track record is flawed at best. But, after installing the DevPrev and then the ConPrev on my old laptop, I find myself screaming for a touch-screen device, and there doesn’t seem to be much of anything out there worth the effort. I LOVE the Metro screen, and it seems like it would be amazingly intuitive if I didn’t have to talk to it thru a stupid KB and mouse!

Let the CyberLuddites hate it. I’m sold.

Jim

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If you download and install Windows 8 Consumer Preview, released late last week, I can almost guarantee that you won’t like it.
I know only a handful of experienced Windows users (who don’t work for or with Microsoft) who say they like Windows 8. But it’s the future, eh?[/td][/tr][/tbl]

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The full text of this column is posted at WindowsSecrets.com/top-story/a-windows-veteran-looks-at-win8-consumer-preview/ (opens in a new window/tab).

Columnists typically cannot reply to comments here, but do incorporate the best tips into future columns.[/td]

[/tr][/tbl][/QUOTE]

maybe it is just me
but win8 looks like another attempt at BOB
which we rejected vigorously the first time
and then again when vista tried pushing a son of bob on us
now we have 8 doing it once again

why does billyg keep trying to dumb down windows
to the point where it will be unusable for anything serious
and take too long to do what should be done faster better easier without the Bob approaches

i am still on xp with 3 systems and 98se (!!!) with two of them
all working just fine thank you

if ms does not come back to its senses with 9 and give us something good
i will be forced to move to linux type or even mac (ugh, yuck, patooie) instead anything boblike

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Sounds like Microsoft is sticking to their proven model of every other OS version being the junk one! Win8 seems to pick up where Vista left off.

The problem is that Microsoft always seems to be following in the footsteps of Apple. Ballmer would be pulling his hair out (if he had any) as he daily agonizes how Apple stock price can be over $500 share while Microsoft is mired in the $25 range. After all, Microsoft helped save Apple years ago with what was it, a $150 million loan? Microsoft so desperately wants to be Apple.

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I love win8 cons preview fast bot fast finish to behind-the-curtain bs on boot fast response good memory use stabile chrome loves it ie10 is ok. Could not be online without it as the fan on my video card is toast anything else gets too hot long screen goes blank must reboot hourly win8 up and very very busy 9 hours now and its still according to cpu temp software as cool as win7 ON IDEL with NO SCRIPTS LEFT RUNNING. So there.

I HATE METRO and so far the hacks that killed it for me in dev prev don’t work. I have a couple of start button restorers that work…but they are kinda underfoot every so often I’d rather not use them even if I also HATE the “Swipe” (AND ANY OTHER GESTURE CTYOPE THING lol) and the CHARMS menu too.

I shall read that MVP thingie mentioned in the collumn.

I’ve heard that something described as “Windows 8 Review.co” contains a solution but it may be I can not find that…

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I’ve long thought that eventually all mainstream operating systems would embrace touch screens. I’ve been using touch screens on machine controls since the day I had to reluctantly purchase Windows 3.1 just to program one because the programming software wouldn’t run in my trusty old stable DOS.

There are some things that touch screens are good for. Like buttons. Other things, not so good. A touch screen interface is positively a pain for any kind of data entry, and worse than useless for a mouse/keyboard app like CAD. My Android phone is a technological wonder, but it is very irritating to try to type anything on it. Accidental touches on the screen making things happen unexpectedly is a major irritant. Selection for copy/paste? Fuggedaboutit. A bigger screen won’t really help much for typing. You see, you need the screen at one angle to read it, and a different angle to type on it. Greasy fingerprints will be another annoyance. Being occasionally stuck with a touchpad on a laptop is already enough torture. How many people who use laptops regularly DON’T have a wireless mouse to go with it?

I’ll stick to my original contention: Eventually all mainstream OS’s will embrace touch screens. And the OS along with the applications written for them will leverage the advantages of the touch screen where it makes sense, and the advantages of mouse/keyboard and other input devices where it makes sense. With both methods of input supported.

If MS makes the OS useless for legacy apps, they will be shooting themselves in the foot. I’ll still cheer them on. I have an industrial application that would be a dream to be able to program in Windows using a relatively inexpensive touch screen (yeah, buttons for the end user with occasional use of a pop-up keyboard). So it is my hope that I can eventually conclude that I can release a product and not have to worry about the OS or the hardware being abandonware. At this point, I cannot conclude that, neither about the OS nor about the hardware out there. I need to be able to support any industrial product for at least 10 years.

Hopefully MS gets it together. It’s not that hard to make a program launch list (start menu). If MS doesn’t do it, other people will. At least Win 8 will keep Windows Secrets in business for a long time to come!

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“Woody is correct…the interface is horrible for mouse & keyboard folks”

Not for this folk. I’ve had no problem navigating Metro with my keyboard and mouse. Some things were a bit confusing at first. I thought using the mouse to lift the openeing screen was a bit clunky. Then I decided to try pressing the up arrow button, and up it went. Cool. Pressing the Windows button returns you to the Metro screen if you’re in an app. Pressing it when you’re on the Start screen switches to the desktop, pressing again switches you back to Metro.

I can click all over Metro with my mouse, slide boxes around, play with apps. They keyboard is hardly needed. On the desktop … well, it works like Windows desktop. Click and type. The start button is gone, but I’ve been able to do everything I wanted to without it. I’ve been pinning my apps to the task bar since Windows 7 came out, and that still works.

So I don’t really see what the problem is. The Windoes 8 works just fine with a keyboard and mouse. If you don’t like learning new tricks, stay with Windows 7. Me, I’ll see what the final version of Windows 8 looks like, and what kind of launchers and other tools come out with it. And I’m sure there will be a way, either from Microsoft or someone else, to boot directly to the desktop so you never have to see the Metro interface if you don’t want to.

Oh, and Windows 8 wouldn’t install on my Vibe tablet. It said it couldn’t find any drivers.

~~ Grey

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generally win8 is a rocket ship win7 is a snail or a leaky canoe. I added start back and still have charms so the only thing I dislike is seeing the metro gui before I hit desktop and hide it if it would just stay away unless called by me i’d be 100% thrilled with the whole win8 thing its my default now I run everything I do on it (user files of course I stash on an external HD so I can stuff em back in a partition with a “permanent” os)

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generally win8 is a rocket ship win7 is a snail or a leaky canoe. I added start back and still have charms so the only thing I dislike is seeing the metro gui before I hit desktop and hide it if it would just stay away unless called by me i’d be 100% thrilled with the whole win8 thing its my default now I run everything I do on it (user files of course I stash on an external HD so I can stuff em back in a partition with a “permanent” os)

You might like the Start Menu Toggle (SMT) Utility. Get it HERE.

-- rc primak

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nice ty. startmenu 7 and vistart do it too, of those startmenu 7 is far better…

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Looks like the Metro interface could be good for portable devices but not for desktops. Here’s a workaround to skip Metro and go to the desktop:

http://www.howtogeek.com/108349/how-to-boot-to-the-desktop-skip-metro-in-windows-8/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=130312

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This brings back memories of the transition from DOS to Windows (GUI).
Looking back, even Linux has conformed to the GUI.
I know few who would want to go back to total text based computing.
Although try to imagine the speed we would have without the graphics.

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“If you download and install Windows 8 Consumer Preview, released late last week, I can almost guarantee that you won’t like it”

says Woody Leonhard’s on March 8^th, 2012. And he is correct. But there is a reason.

First installing Windows 8 Consumer Preview is really easy. The process has been improved over Windows 7. But!
Most people will not be able to run the Metro interface with a keyboard. Windows 8 wasn’t designed for a keyboard, but for touch. And currently very few computers, notebooks and laptops have touch capability.
The Windows 8 “desktop” is quite different to Windows 7 desktop.
There are some people who will take to Metro like ducks to water – IF you are using a tablet. But on the desktop you will have to use the keyboard Windows Key shortcuts. IF
you install Windows 8 on a HP 2760P tablet it will be fun from the get go. Who has a $2.000.00+ tablet?
On the desktop you are at Daytona with a bicycle. Regrettably, the rest of Woody’s article is based on using the wrong tools for the job.

There is one other area that needs to be thunk through. It appears as though Windows 8 may come on two platforms; Windows 8 on the tablet and Windows 8 on the desktop.
And there are two versions for each: WOX and WOA, marketing genius.
The Apple competing tablet will be for the consumer who does NOT connect to a Network Domain. It will do all the iPad will do and Office. WOA tablet.

And the Business tablet, that is on and off the Network Domain network, with the required security and server features. WOX tablet.

Thought of in this light the whole Windows 8 Consumer Preview paradigm takes on a somewhat different perspective.

That is my take with Windows 9 Consumer Preview. I think it is pretty darned good and after a hour or so is really easy to use.
If you can open the Explorer, open a CMD prompt and elevate to administrator level you are not reading this.
Pakeha

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Woody is walking around a point. I LOVE WIN8 for endless reasons and I use it with desktop/keyboard; I don’t like Mice any nmore than I like Touch, for the same reasons. If I had a touch screen I imagine I’d learn to sorta ciope with touch as I cope with Mice, with a lot of swearing about the imprecision.

Winn 8 for me opens faster, finishes behind-scenes load faster, runs faster cooler (40 degrees C cooler at some points that’s a LOT…video card heat sibk fan is dead, win8 does not even notice. Win 7 starts to melt stuff and screen blanks lol. There are various unrequested “improvements” such as the Metro ie 10 but THOSE can be PERMANENTLY toggled away, an opt-out if you will, and I did. All of the few that I really did not like. Startmenu 7 has fixed both the metro menu stuff and the orb vs task barv issue, reverted the task bar up arrow to its former utility, and leaves the charms alone. nothing lost.

The gripe is two parts of one issue. Sure form factor and beyond that the pervasiveness and use of digital for just about everything are driving the touch. no problem but. It’s hard to imagine office programs with touch; if what happens instead is cut down for touch maybe the desktop environment innovation would suffer. The other thing is AFAIK MS has provided no internal-to-windows way to “opt out”; fortunately Startmenu 7 does that. It’s about what the apparent attitude fortells for vthe future really.

The present win8 is GREAT imho. I might actuaslly PAY for a copy, which is something I don’t recall doing with an OS since the days they came on disks that literally flopped, maybe diskes for systems without hard drives…

“If you download and install Windows 8 Consumer Preview, released late last week, I can almost guarantee that you won’t like it”

says Woody Leonhard’s on March 8^th, 2012. And he is correct. But there is a reason.

First installing Windows 8 Consumer Preview is really easy. The process has been improved over Windows 7. But!
Most people will not be able to run the Metro interface with a keyboard. Windows 8 wasn’t designed for a keyboard, but for touch. And currently very few computers, notebooks and laptops have touch capability.
The Windows 8 “desktop” is quite different to Windows 7 desktop.
There are some people who will take to Metro like ducks to water – IF you are using a tablet. But on the desktop you will have to use the keyboard Windows Key shortcuts. IF
you install Windows 8 on a HP 2760P tablet it will be fun from the get go. Who has a $2.000.00+ tablet?
On the desktop you are at Daytona with a bicycle. Regrettably, the rest of Woody’s article is based on using the wrong tools for the job.

There is one other area that needs to be thunk through. It appears as though Windows 8 may come on two platforms; Windows 8 on the tablet and Windows 8 on the desktop.
And there are two versions for each: WOX and WOA, marketing genius.
The Apple competing tablet will be for the consumer who does NOT connect to a Network Domain. It will do all the iPad will do and Office. WOA tablet.

And the Business tablet, that is on and off the Network Domain network, with the required security and server features. WOX tablet.

Thought of in this light the whole Windows 8 Consumer Preview paradigm takes on a somewhat different perspective.

That is my take with Windows 9 Consumer Preview. I think it is pretty darned good and after a hour or so is really easy to use.
If you can open the Explorer, open a CMD prompt and elevate to administrator level you are not reading this.
Pakeha

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Woody is walking around a point. I LOVE WIN8 for endless reasons and I use it with desktop/keyboard; I don’t like Mice any nmore than I like Touch, for the same reasons. If I had a touch screen I imagine I’d learn to sorta ciope with touch as I cope with Mice, with a lot of swearing about the imprecision.

Winn 8 for me opens faster, finishes behind-scenes load faster, runs faster cooler (40 degrees C cooler at some points that’s a LOT…video card heat sibk fan is dead, win8 does not even notice. Win 7 starts to melt stuff and screen blanks lol. There are various unrequested “improvements” such as the Metro ie 10 but THOSE can be PERMANENTLY toggled away, an opt-out if you will, and I did. All of the few that I really did not like. Startmenu 7 has fixed both the metro menu stuff and the orb vs task barv issue, reverted the task bar up arrow to its former utility, and leaves the charms alone. nothing lost.

The gripe is two parts of one issue. Sure form factor and beyond that the pervasiveness and use of digital for just about everything are driving the touch. no problem but. It’s hard to imagine office programs with touch; if what happens instead is cut down for touch maybe the desktop environment innovation would suffer. The other thing is AFAIK MS has provided no internal-to-windows way to “opt out”; fortunately Startmenu 7 does that. It’s about what the apparent attitude fortells for vthe future really.

The present win8 is GREAT imho. I might actuaslly PAY for a copy, which is something I don’t recall doing with an OS since the days they came on disks that literally flopped, maybe diskes for systems without hard drives…

Start8 is the Windows 8 version of Start Menu7. This product comes from Stardock, a company whose products have in the past required an adware add-on to get updates.

-- rc primak

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You are not actually saying you haven’t paid for your Win 7 are you? How did you then acquire it and previous versions?

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You are not actually saying you haven’t paid for your Win 7 are you? How did you then acquire it and previous versions?

Perhaps this post is implying that the author has had OEM pre-installed OSes ever since who knows when. Otherwise, the statement is hard to interpret without some very dark implications. But the Start8 recommendation is completely legitimate — if you don’t mind doing business with Stardock.

-- rc primak

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for many years we had a TechNet subscription. I suspect that some software was installed multiple times. paying retail as an individual for the improvements – sometimes they are not minor but not really to me since somewhere around dos 3x have they been MustHave not even the GUI – the prices are too high. When they come with a substantial computer I don’t mind it might be a bit much per each considering the volume etc but its not a big hit to the budget in what is being done.

Upgrading the OS on an existing computer at full retail does not maker sense to me.

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Thank you, Woody, for the additional information about Windows 8. Everything, and I mean everything, I have heard about Windows 8 has been very discouraging to me. Now, with the added information you have provided in your article, I am sorry to say that it looks even WORSE than I had imagined. If it weren’t for the plethora of useful software for Windows machines, I would probably switched to Linix long ago. But if MS insists on pushing their tablet oriented interface into Windows, I suspect that when support for W7 falls away, I may leap away from Windows altogether. I think somebody at MS needs to be fired.

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As noted above I found quite a few Win8 things took me a while to tame – not to get used to but to reconfigure to my satisfaction. It’s all done except I have one extra click on boot, to hide Metro unless I feel perverse and want it back. To me it was well worth it, this puppy is the first totally stable thing since before DOS 4.0 and it’s blazing fast, adds a number of very useful things formerly found only on servers (VHD, VHDX, Virtual Machines, mounting IOS files in software (WOOT! No more plastic TRASH!), boots in a breath, and is kind of pretty to look at. That’s on a desktop without a touch screen

ALL my productivity and amusement and beta aps and historical curiosities run on it. Every one. I liked it so much on one machine I have it twice, once on a regular primary partition on a hard drive; again on a second primary partition hosted as a vhdx on that drive and running a virtual machine. Even I can’t trash two operating systems on one computer simultaneously, I will always be able to boot, to run, and to fix the busted set of stuff from the good set.

The hardware likes it too. It runs 40 degrees centigrade cooler than win7 on the same chipset. In fact the video card’s heat sink lost its fan; Win7 blows out the screen display in less than an hour even with the air conditioner running, the CPU box cover off, and a fan from an apartment window blowing in cold air. Win8 does not even notice that the fan is dead.

When they release this thing I DO hope they address some of Woody’s points though they are well taken:

1. Its ubiquitous computing and not just tiny pocket form factors driving the software bus now. The cutting edge won’t be the desktop or even the server farm. Things will migrate the other way. Business and quasi-business users will do a lot with the new deices too. BUT SOME USES WILL NEED RESONABLE KEYBOARDS and no battery limitation, that is to say, wires. The new input devices can be used to some extent in a desktop setting for the character-oriented application, but the keyboard (or the spoken word, or maybe the eye movement, BUT NOT A TOUCH SCREEN) WILL BE NEEDED. MS should not act like they may intend to pretend that that fact does not exist. With Metro on the Desktop by default, that is exactly what the message is.

2. If anybody can imagine something like Excel driven by Touch, I can’t. Hopefully innovation (such as it is) with those types of applications will continue.

3. A lot of things (Such as Control-Alt-Delete to see the Lock Command) are just contrary to common sense. Where this stuff is now ought to be listed up front.

4. Things intentionally set up to be toggled between mode (the right-click-on-Start Power Menu, the WinX Toolbar, the Desktop Only and Desktop Tile modes for IE) should not require coming to a place like this to discover.

5. The half dozen or more substitutes for Metro’s Start ought to lead to at least one non-Metro OPTION in the released version.

6. The Metro Home Screen can be made into nothing but a Splash Screen, seen on boot but never again. There ought to be a way to shut it up totally even if it’s just one wasted click that’s too many. We don’t have to reinstall Devices each boot.

There are doubtless other examples that more experienced and sophisticated users than I have discovered, of the Great, the Good, the Acceptable, the Needs Improvement, or even the Intolerable.
.

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Well I took Woody’s advice, a spare XP machine. and better video card and installed 8. There are a lot of big ugly buttons on that screen and most of them proved to be less than useful. IE worked, the mail button took me to hotmail or something (the epitome of uselessness), solitaire was sooooo slow, and the remainder just left me in semi blank screens wondering what to do.

So I found the desktop and installed a few apps. I found that I could remove all of the useless buttons and get the good stuff on the first screen (at least in this small test) but what’s the point? As soon as you click on an application button it switches to the desktop anyway. Might just as well be there to start out.

It didn’t know how to add a registry key from a .key file and the fact that CopyToWinClip in my favourite text editor no longer works (it’s been working fine since I switched from the DOS version) does not bode well.

Don’t think I’ll be putting out money for this one any time soon.

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Slow Solitaire and other issues is probably drivers. My first install of DevPrev and ConPrev on my old XP/Vista/Win7 laptop had the same problem. I replaced the MS default drivers with the Win7 drivers (thanks, Paul Thurrott for the reco) and Voila!, runs like a champ.

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I hate to come across as an old curmudgeon, but i don’t want my computer to look or work like a smartphone. Jeeze, i don’t even want my PHONE to work like a smartphone, I just want to make calls on it – and , yes, i’m not completely 1990s, i want to send text messages too
So here i stay, trying to squeeze a few extra years out of good ol’ XP … so far, so good.

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