A peek at the future of Win7/8.1 patching with KB 3177723, 3179573, and 3179574

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There may be some hope that the October changes will help. InfoWorld Woody on Windows
[See the full post at: A peek at the future of Win7/8.1 patching with KB 3177723, 3179573, and 3179574]

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Even it you use the Update Catalog for the security patch (singular) to avoid the “improvements”, won’t you still have to use WU for IE11, Flash, .NET, Office(s), other MS software? Maybe they will include IE11, but the rest….

And it will be interesting to see, if you use WU to patch the rest, whether or not you will be able to deny the Monthly Rollup while doing so. I anticipate MS changing the update options/process for Win7/8 to reflect what is in Win10, especially for Home users

None of these manipulations are for the masses anyway, so they will get all or nothing.

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I,ve changed my email address because it was hacked:( and I,m not sure how to keep this website without compromising it. please help” I hope I did the correct thing, thank you,

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My Win 7 , SP 1, 2009 edition has received all of the KB’s mentioned and have them in hiding. Should they be installed? I am a little apprehensive of the rollup concept as it maybe a hiding place for Microsoft’s ruthlessness. Please advise, as I understand -once a first rollup is installed one cannotg take it back.

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It’s far, far too early to install anything from this month.

Wait for the MS-DEFCON level to change. There’s nothing pressing, unless you run clocks in Cairo.

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There’s nothing to keep. Come back when you like – and you won’t compromise the web site.

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Right in all regards. General answer: I dunno, but I expect we’ll find out.

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Thanks, for your help. Did you get an answer on the privacy/service emails I sent you?

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I’m hopelessly behind on my inbox. What question(s) did you have?

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Sent you an Email enclosing the NEW service/and privacy statements that MS emailed me about 10 days ago. I asked that your legal department look at them and see if I should sign them. There were some big changes in what I signed in 2009.

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ACH! Now I remember. I don’t have a legal department – it’s just me – and I’m not really qualified. Don’t know if any legal experts have looked at the changes.

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Sent you that email on August 11th, sorry maybe not enough time to get an answer. Am going to hold off on everything until the coast is absolutely clear, per you. THANKS FOR YOU INCREASING HELP

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You bet. Watch her for the MS-DEFCON level to change. I’m sure to have special instructions for this month and next month, heading into the major changes in October.

As for legal advice… man, I wish I was qualified to give it. No. Wait. I don’t.

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That’s OK. I’ll wait for your word. Thanks again for your tremendous help for us computer non-geeks.

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@Woody: I have several questions about this “new” change planned by MS. Since I’m not “computer literate”, I do not “know” what some of their terminology actually “means”.

It quotes: “published to WinUpdate (WU) I think that’s the “normal updates” that we are “supposed” to get; WSUS (I do not know what that is); SCCM (I do not know what that is); and the Update Catalog”. I know what the catalog is, however does this mean that the users must go to the “MS Catalog” to get specific updates?

What does “blocking ALL updates & downloading each month’s security patches” mean?

Does this mean that users must go to different websites to get whatever MS plans on sending to us?

It’s very confusing for so many of us who have a very simple OS and are running Windows 7 (Home Premium). I’ve kept everything as simple as possible.

Thank you for any guidance you may have on how this will affect the functionality for the end user. As always your advice is most appreciated.

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My question about microsoft disabling update settings is, are they able to do this without an update? Given this past year’s reign of terror by microsoft i’m not going to bet against such disgraceful tactics and it’s my biggest worry that i will no longer have any control over allowing updates. I cannot believe we may be heading in this direction, it is absolutely disgusting. This thuggery has got to stop.

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I don’t know how they’re going to implement it, but there will certainly be a way to opt in and opt out of updates. Has to be.

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As soon as we have more details, I’ll publish a detailed procedure – if one unfolds. In the interim, don’t worry about it. Looks like we’ll have a way to keep Win7 and 8.1 customers patched with security updates, without taking non-security patches.

Unless they WANT non-security patches, of course.

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Thank you for the reassurance. Knowing that you are “there” to watch over this “situation” is a huge relief!! We all owe you a huge deft of gratitude!!

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Thanks again, Woody.

While they have approved comments on Nathan Mercer’s blog entry on the new patching, mine remains under moderation (I am unsurprised, though disappointed) that notes the following:

This will only simplify things if:
1) Quality control of Microsoft patches improves. In the new model, if one patch breaks something, the entire cumulative patch will be “broken”.
2) Microsoft does not use cumulative patches to release features and changes detrimental to customers (e.g., telemetry updates, the reduction-in-features of GPOs for Windows Profeesional additions), with the knowledge that customers will be forced to accept them to get the necessary security patches.
3) Microsoft fully documents their patches. Currently, about 10% of Microsoft KBs have nothing other than “This update improves the reliability and performance of and then only tells me how to download and apply the update. No documentation of what it fixes or behavior it changes. I refuse to apply these updates, and I provide negative feedback every time, as they do not tell me how they will affect my clients’ systems.

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Microsoft is not exactly an inclusive environment. They’ve also closed off comments on the “Anniversary Update freezes Win10” thread in Microsoft Answers.

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I have two PC’s, Update rollup gave me windows update error, which would not allow further updates, I uninstalled, and it is back to normal, (Windows 7Pro sp1) never had a problem, recently. On the other PC, can’t get update to completely come off, won’t configure, trying system restore. BE CAREFUL OF KB 3179573, 2 PC’s two instant problems. HP, and Dell PC’s -Glenn Casey.

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What kind of problems? If you uninstall the patch, do the problems go away?

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@Brian,

A few days back, in another thread here, Woody did respond a little to your question (that was where he mentioned that the only legal resource he has is his brother who is an expert in American Indian tribal law, so Woody said that he would not be able to give you any “legal” perspectives on your question).
After that post by Woody, I think that a couple of other folks had comments about the new privacy statement that they had received or seen. (You might look back to find that discussion thread on this site, it was about a week ago.)
(Not everyone got the notice on privacy changes, as Microsoft does not have contact details for all of us. I didn’t hear anything from them.)

Is there something that Microsoft wants you to actually *sign*? Or is there a warning saying something like– if you continue to use their services, it will be assumed that you accept the new terms?

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@Walker,

Definitely I agree with you about the gratitude so many of us feel towards Woody.

Especially now when it’s really a crunch time.

We’ve asked before how to show our support to him, beyond trying to be good “members” of the discussion forum here, and he says that the 3 ways to do that are:
– Buy his new book about Windows 10 (it is available in bookstores now, and also sold online at the usual retailers)
– Use no ad blockers when reading his articles at Infoworld.com
– Download his son’s new game app

I do wish there were a way to contribute a little bit directly, like Martin Brinkmann has established on Ghacks.net (described here: http://www.ghacks.net/support/).

I don’t know, is there a way to give someone a gift card, like for a few dollars on Amazon, when all you know is their name and their email address? (Woody’s email address is given in the “about Woody” tab at the top of the page.) I’m just thinking aloud, it’s not that I’m saying that would work or be a good idea, and maybe it wouldn’t be a welcome option from his p.o.v.
[It’s just that I don’t need the Windows 10 book and I play no games/apps, and my do-it-yourself type of ad-blocking is not something that is easily dismantled (without letting in and out all kinds of other connections that I don’t want to give free reign to).]

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Naw. Right now, more than anything, I want to boost Justin’s game 2Bee2 – get it out, get people using it, talking about it. He’s spent a year as an indie game developer, poured a lot of blood into the game (actually there are two games). I’d like him to see 2Bee2 live long and prosper.

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Glenn Dunbar
6:56 PM (1 minute ago)

to AskWoody
Changes went away on both PC’s, Had trouble getting it off my older one DELL inspiron 2010 Windows 7 ultimate. On my HP Envy 2014, Windows update would not update , had a strange error 800700f3 -that may be off a number. on the DELL, malwarebytes Anti Ransomware (Beta) Suddenly would not run, and the update had trouble coming off, I HAVE A THIRD Dell inspirion 2014, that was o.k., But like you said, be careful installing any optional update. I just thought I’d let you know what happened. Everything was fine prior to installation, of any “rollups” maybe it’s nothing, but, We will see if there are any other reports! (Update rollup KB 3179573) is uninstalled on two of three PC’s.! G.P.C.

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There’s nothing to sign; it does have the ‘If you continue to use our services, etc” sentence.

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Just because for once they do the documentation in a single place, which is a step forward, I still don’t see the October changes to be a good thing until Microsoft REALLY improves the testing of their patches.

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I would think that all the other patches will still be available for downloading as it is now, either in the Catalog or the regular Microsoft download site which is not shutdown yet. The difference is that they will be bundled based on purpose, i.e. .NET Framework updates, Flash updates, Office updates (which are actually bundled right now and have been for a while).
Why so much debate about avoiding when no other major player allows this? One either updates or not. It is so simple.

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@woody Yes. This is true with Windows 10, although there is too much work involved to do what should be an easy choice.

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I don’t agree many times with @poohsticks, although I tend to believe that it is all constructive and for the purpose of learning for all of us, however I fully support his current proposal.
I bought the Windows 10 book for dummies in the early days at an inflated Australian price and Woody told me at that time that I should donate it, as I don’t really need it. It is not true, even if 10 pages out of 1000 contain new information for me, I think it is not wasted money. And it is enough information in the book and presented in a funny way sometimes to be worth a lot more than what was paid.
Unfortunately I am not much into games, but I would like to support Justin in other ways. How?

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Good question.

2Bee2 needs much, much more exposure. I’m convinced that many people – from kids who are bored with Candy Crush to people who commute on trains to older folks who want to keep their brains exercised – will love the game, once they try it. The fundamental question is how to get a lot of people to try it. 2Bee2 isn’t Flappy Bird, it’s not a mindless way to fritter away hours, it’s not appearing suddenly on Windows 10 Start screens. Rather it’s an intense and challenging game, with lots of nuance and strategy packed into a small screen.

I’ve been wracking my brain about how to stir up publicity for 2Bee2, and haven’t yet found the golden key. I’ll keep trying. Right now, my main channel to the public is through this site. If everybody here downloaded the game, told all their friends – and maybe chipped five bucks into the 2Bee2 barrel – it could make a real difference to a frustrated indie game developer.

Crowdsourced publicity, eh?

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Yes, but… no other major player inserts a “Get Windows 10” subsystem onto their machines.

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+1

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I think they (MS) learnt their lesson.
Hope it is all over.

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There is no evidence that M$ has learned their lesson, and plenty that they have not.

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poohsticks, sorry I am just a computer user. My knowledge of computer terms is limited and most of the computer jargon is above me. I missed the meaning that Woody put forth, I probably thought that he was putting a lighter side to our dilemma. Sometimes I don’t catch on as quickly as I should. As to the notice, I reread it in it’s entirety and you are right. And thanks for your input into the MS mess. I learn a little bit form everyone contributing to this.

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Since June I have been holding off on WU (Windows 7) per your comments (thank you!). However I had downloaded but not installed the July patches. When I turned off my computer on August 12 they automatically installed–5 successful, one not, 3163245. Haven’t noticed any problems so far. Since then have entirely turned off WU. 2 questions–should I keep installing Windows Defender definitions? Should I uninstall the July updates?
Thank you Woody. Love this site.

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Windows Defender updates will get applied whether you OK them or not.

No reason to uninstall the July updates.

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I did some tests since we discussed the issue of updating Microsoft antimalware products from Windows Update few months ago.
I found that the home user products like Defender and MSE indeed go out on their own often, I don’t remember if it is daily or more often.
Instead, the Enteprise products Forefront Endpoint Protection or system Center Endpoint Protection which are 90% identical with the home user products using the same engine and most settings, have a different approach. They go out to Microsoft directly only after 14 days of missing updates if my findings are correct. This is by default, that behaviour can changed if required.
So the answer for most readers here is that Windows Defender for Windows 7 and Windows 10 and Microsoft Security Essentials update themselves regardless of the machine wide Windows Update settings.

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A very useful and objective analysis of this subject is done by Susan Bradley in the most recent Windows Secrets newsletter. I highly recommend it to those who want to go beyond the emotional side and understand better what is all about. I think subscription is required for receiving the newsletter in full.

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If I understand this article correctly, in November my machine will download the October updates along with the November updates even though I already downloaded the October updates in October. By June or July, I ought to be getting about 6 hours worth of updates that I already have.

That will sit well with people who get charged for the time they are on line.
The Never check for updates is sounding better every day. I trust my virus checker programs a whole lot more than I do
Microsoft updates.

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Not so. The updates are cumulative and, like Win10, only the updates you need will get downloaded.

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I have a great Lenovo ThinkCentre computer with Windows 7 Professional installed. Firefox browser.

On a few occasions recently, when I’ve simply clicked to change tabs, the screen has gone completely black. Nothing like this has ever happened before.
I reboot and “restore previous session” and I’m good to go again, but this is strange.
Can this be due to some recent W.U. I’ve installed?

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Possible, but not likely. If an update caused it, I probably would’ve heard screams all over the place.

Maybe change the video driver????

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It may be the latest Firefox version in relation to Flash Player? I have experienced recent issues with Firefox in relation to Flash. If this is caused by a recent Windows Update, forget about fixing Windows, it is Firefox which will have to catch up. Don’t ask why.

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The most that virus checkers can do and they often do when you get attacked via a Windows vulnerability is to tell you that you are infected and delete the current executable which tends to start again as a new instance. This is one common occurrence, but attacks can come in many forms.
In such cases you will have to clean-up manually and I can tell you that it is not easy, although entirely possible. The alternative is to wipe everything and reinstall which I never do, but I am in minority.
The best option is to be patched against the attack in the first place and you would be a lot better off even if not using an antivirus.

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I guess technically I have Windows 10 but stupidly disabled Internet Explorer, not knowing couldn’t go back, as it said you could have your favorite search choice listed as the home page. To my horror, I had no clue I had lost Internet Explorer when I did this.

I also had Windows 10 downloaded by a person who insisted on doing it to be nice … really I think he was bored as he was visiting relatives and wanted a reason to get on the Internet.

I hate, detest, and absolutely can’t stand Windows 10 so I’ve been going back and forth between Google as I’m computer illiterate and spend most of my time in Google trying to solve the latest glitch I’ve gotten as I get one almost every day thanks to Windows 10.

Is it possible to go back to Windows 8 or 8.1 without too much bother esp. since I don’t have Internet Explorer anymore.

Thank you, and I believe every word you’ve written about Microsoft. They assume we’re all technical geeks and very FEW of us are. I still wish they’d bring back Windows Vista or Windows XP.

You don’t know what you have until you lose it.

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If you went from 8.1 to 10 in the last 31 days, yes, you can move back.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/3074096/microsoft-windows/hit-by-an-unexpected-windows-10-upgrade-heres-how-to-recover.html

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@poohsticks: My most sincere apology for somehow not getting information from this discussion.

I agree with you 100% about wishing to show our support to Woody in any way possible. I will do everything I possibly can. I’m just now reading the other messages on this subject.

Your comments have been most appreciated – – – and I wish to say “thank you” once again for them all.

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