• Paragraph numbering & styles

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    WSCaesar3
    AskWoody Lounger
    April 19, 2001 at 4:41 pm #355168

    I’m using Word 2000 with Windows 98. The document I’m working with has paragraphs A,B,C and subparagraphs (1), (2), (3) etc. I’ve set up custom styles: Paragraphs A-B-C are style “Level1”; the numbered subparagraphs are style “Level2.” Now, I’ve done this many times before, and I’ve never had the problem I’m about to describe. Let’s say Para A has three subparagraphs: (1), (2), and (3). When I start Para B, Word wants to start numbering B’s subparagraphs (4), (5), (6), etc. This has never before been a problem: I just go to Format/Bullets and Numbering and click on the radio button for “Restart numbering,” right? It’s always worked for me…till now. Today, when I clicked on Format/Bullets and Numbering, the “Restart numbering” feature was grayed out, even though the radio button was active. I just returned from a week’s vacation, and I feel like I must have lost my mind while was away! What am I missing here?

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    • WSKB MacKenzie
      AskWoody Lounger
      April 20, 2001 at 3:45 am #523364

      Edited to clarify. Please see post in this thread by Gary Frieder for a more complete description.

      You don’t want to “Restart Numbering.” You need to redefine the styles. Place your cursor in Level 1 style and click Format / Style / Modify / Format / Bullets & Numbering / Customize / More. Select level 2 and verify that at the bottom of the dialog it indicates it should restart after level 1, etc.

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      • WSCaesar3
        AskWoody Lounger
        April 19, 2001 at 9:12 pm #523382

        Hoo-boy! OK, I follow what you’re saying in principle, but here’s what happened when I followed your suggestions. The subparagraph that had been numerical–i.e., (1) [or what I named “Level2”]–is now alphabetically numbered. That is, I have main paragraph A (“Level1), and beneath it (at “Level2”) is subparagraphs B, C, D. Then the next Level1 paragraph is E, and the next subparagraphs under E are F, G, and H!! Argh-h-h! I’m sure there’s something very obvious that I’m overlooking, but I can’t find it! Thanks for your help!

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        • WSGary Frieder
          AskWoody Lounger
          April 19, 2001 at 10:41 pm #523391

          In addition to Karen’s suggestions, here’s another thing to observe when customizing outline numbering:

          Never customize an outline numbered list from anywhere but a Level 1 paragraph.
          For example, suppose you suspect that there’s a problem with your Level 2 style (perhaps it may be unlinked).

          To investigate and fix this problem, first place your cursor in a Level 1 paragraph, and then go to the Bullets&Numbering>Customize dialog (btw you can access this dialog either via Format>Style>Modify etc. OR via Format>Bullets and Numbering – when it comes to outline numbered styles, these two dialogs are linked).

          Once in the Customize dialog, step down to Level 2 and do whatever fixing you need to do. Then you can OK your way out.

          If you enter Customize from a style that is anything other than Level 1, you’re actually creating an additional list template, that isn’t connected to the original one (that’s why you often see multiples of your list in the gallery area of Bullets&Numbering).
          Once this kind of break has been made, there’s no setting it right, other than by starting at a Level 1 paragraph, going back into Customize and setting everything straight again.

          Hope this helps,
          Gary

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          • WSKB MacKenzie
            AskWoody Lounger
            April 20, 2001 at 3:40 am #523432

            kissThanks, Gary!

            Ceasar, please forgive my oversight in providing the instructions, and in rereading my response I can see why you would have began the process from Style Level2. I sincerely apologize, and am going to edit my original so as not to lead others astray.

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            • WSCaesar3
              AskWoody Lounger
              April 20, 2001 at 12:19 pm #523470

              OK…thank you both, Karen and Gary! I’ll try to do as you suggest when I get to work today, and I’ll let you know how things work out!

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          • WSP McGinty
            AskWoody Lounger
            April 20, 2001 at 8:59 pm #523540

            I was very interested in this part of your post:
            <Customize dialog (btw you can access this dialog either via Format>Style>Modify etc. OR via Format>Bullets and Numbering – when it comes to outline numbered styles, these two dialogs are linked).>>
            Our firm was told by (?experts?) more than 3-4 years ago when we switched to Word that this was a bad thing to do – and never link the B&N through format, style. shrug So you learn something new every day – thanks for this information. thumbup

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            • WSCaesar3
              AskWoody Lounger
              April 20, 2001 at 10:18 pm #523544

              Well…I won’t even attempt to describe what happened when I tried to follow Karen and Gary’s recommendations. Let me take this whole project back to the beginning. I acquired the document by scanning it from a printed original. My HP ScanJet 5200C sent the document to WordPad (not to Word–it’s not on the scanner’s list of targets, but that’s a whole different subject). Then I saved the final 10-page product as a Word document and proceeded to ATTEMPT to do the formatting and numbering. The original document has paragraphs set up exactly as I’ve tried to do in Word, i.e., paragraph A, subparagraph (1), (2), (3) etc. Let’s suppose this were your project, and you’d just converted the scanned document into MS-Word. Where would you go next? Assume there are NO CUSTOM STYLES to use…yet. You’ve got whatever styles are available in any virgin Word document. Truth to tell, I’ve never messed with the “Outline Numbered” tab under Bullets&Numbering very much, so I’m a bit uncomfortable there. Nevertheless, I desperately want to learn how to use these and other features in Word. I really appreciate the time you folks have given to this problem. Undoubtedly, you’ll save my sanity!

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            • WSP McGinty
              AskWoody Lounger
              April 21, 2001 at 12:32 am #523550

              If the document isn’t too big

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            • WSGary Frieder
              AskWoody Lounger
              April 24, 2001 at 7:52 am #523577

              Edited by Gary Frieder on 01/04/24 08:52.

              [It was pointed out to me that there was a flaw in the settings for the Level 2 style – the attached should correct that.]

              Hi again,

              Attached is a sample document – does this produce the kind of numbering you want?
              Setting up this kind of numbering isn’t hard – but only if you know the gotchas (which are considerable – I still remember the hours of agony before I learned how to get this right).

              There are two ways to set this kind of numbering up: manually or programatically. There’s been quite a bit of coverage of this here before – just do a Search on this forum for numbering or outline numbering.

              I have a 20 page illustrated guide to setting up outline numbering manually, which guides you around all the gotchas – it’s too big to post here but I’ll e-mail it to anyone who requests it – just contact me.

              Once you know how to set these up manually, it’s fairly easy to create a macro which records these settings – then setting up or repairing your numbering can be done at the touch of a button.

              Gary

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            • WSgwhitfield
              AskWoody Lounger
              April 21, 2001 at 9:44 am #523583

              [indent]

              I have a 20 page illustrated guide to setting up outline numbering manually

              [/indent]Gary,

              I (or you) can post this if you elsewhere- geocities is OK- if you don’t have anything inthe top right had corner where their annoying little ad pops up!

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            • WSCaesar3
              AskWoody Lounger
              April 22, 2001 at 11:55 am #523658

              Yes! Yes! That’s precisely the kind of paragraph numbering I’m working for! You nailed it! I’ll write you directly to request a copy of that 20-page illustrated document–sounds very interesting and helpful. Thank you!

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            • WSCaesar3
              AskWoody Lounger
              April 24, 2001 at 9:40 pm #524014

              I looked again at your sample document, this time with the aid of the “Shift+F1 microscope.” This may strike you and others as funny (?), but I was a mite surprised to see that both the main paragraph (para A) and its sub-paragraphs (para (1), (2), etc.) use your “Level 1” style. In my document, I was applying my own thinking, i.e., that the main paragraph would have one style and the sub-paragraph would need yet another “style” to apply the indentation and all that. Am I reading this corrrectly?

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            • WSGary Frieder
              AskWoody Lounger
              April 24, 2001 at 10:40 pm #524029

              Hi Caesar,

              I think you’re misreading it. The name of the style doesn’t appear in the “What’s This?” feature.

              You could be getting misled because whatever style name was first showing in the style window, will continue to show (i.e. it’s frozen), as you click in various different paragraphs with “What’s This?”.

              If you simply click in each individual paragraph, and look at the name of the style in the style window, you’ll see that they are Level 1 and Level 2.

              Gary

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    • WSKB MacKenzie
      AskWoody Lounger
      April 21, 2001 at 12:57 am #523554

      To expand upon what Lawrence has added, there is a “Bible” of sorts to using Word’s Outline numbering. It’s called by Sherry Kappel at Microsystems. You can peruse on-line or download in either Word or pdf format. In fact, there are several free resources at the Microsystems DocXpert page. Sherry colaborated with Bob Blacksberg on one of the the Word of Law series in WOW, and you will see that many of the items are geared toward the legal environment. But don’t let that scare you…

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    • WSCaesar3
      AskWoody Lounger
      April 22, 2001 at 12:02 pm #523659

      Thanks! I’m not among those folks who’ve “used WordPerfect quite extensively.” I have virtually no experience with WordPerfect, but I’ve worked with many folks who seem unable or unwilling to let go of it. I’m trying to help these people as best I can, although obviously I need a little help myself. I really appreciate your contribution!

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    • WSCaesar3
      AskWoody Lounger
      April 24, 2001 at 9:18 pm #524009

      OK, I’m back to work today, and I’m trying–really, really trying–to follow the great advice I’ve gotten. I’ve read the 7 Laws and…well, here’s what I found when I examined a paragraph under the “Shift+F1” microscope. “Paragraph Style: Indent: Left 22.66″….” Now…how in the %#*#! Am I maybe looking at corruption in the application? BTW: I fixed the problem by applying DIRECT FORMATTING. I know that violates at least one of the 7 Laws, but golly whiz, I had to finish this project! Any thoughts? Anyone?

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      • WSGary Frieder
        AskWoody Lounger
        April 24, 2001 at 10:42 pm #524030

        With the document open, look under Tools>Options, General tab. Are your measurement units set to Centimeters or Millimeters?

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      • WSsjtmiller
        AskWoody Lounger
        April 25, 2001 at 4:22 pm #524138

        This measurement could be an indication that the paragraph and its style came from another word processor. You might try restyling the paragraph to normal (or all the paragraphs with that style), then delete the style with the bad measurement, and then recreate the style.

        Hope this helps.

        If you follow the Seven Laws, you will not go wrong.

        sjm

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