I’d personally just skip 2004 and go straight to 20H2. Even though the bases are the same, it seems some of the weirder issues are already shaken out.

Myself, I’m on 20H2 now with an HP Omen Core i7 7700HQ and 8 Gb ram (20H2 Home edition), 128 Gb SSD. I was on 2004 for nearly six months with not a single problem or issue of any kind. And the upgrade to 20H2 went smoothly and took less time than a regular cumulative monthly update, about a month or more ago. No problems so far. I wish every Fall upgrade was the same, not much different than a monthly cumulative update. And my Windows 7 programs (Microsoft Money Sunset Edition, Works 9, and GnuCash financial software) are all still working no differently than they did in Windows 7. Home user with no server network.

I have 2004 on a relatively generic, non-brand computer system using Windows Defender, not third-party anti-virus software. I also have a Conan, err, Canon printer that works without problems.

What I’m not ready for is 2021, the year.

Read here: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/so-whats-the-current-wisdom-on-win10-2004/#post-2316826

Sticking to 1909 for the time being, besides I moved to 1909 from 1809 no more than a couple months ago, so I don’t want to go through the stress of another Feature Update too soon. Assuming 20H2 is green-lighted at the same time as 2004 or shortly thereafter, once 1909 is one month from EOL I’d like to move directly to 20H2.

More generally, I find twice-yearly feature releases annoying and cumbersome, most of the time we get more hassles than benefits (at least that’s my impression as an “average user”). Considering we have the monthly patching to contend with (which is at least supposed to fix security issues among various things), I’d be more than happy if MS re-thinks the feature releases to have a once-yearly scheme.

I recently went from 1909 to 2004 on a fairly old HP TouchSmart520 desktop PC with Windows 10 Pro. No further issues now but the installation took around four and a half hours which I was not expecting and it initially messed up Windows Search once installed. I had to reindex which took around 3 days for 9,600 files – which I could have done well without. 2004 has no features that I want or need as it turns out so the whole exercise was a waste of my time and effort. That being said, the boot up time is considerably faster and shutdown is a little faster and the PC is working very well for no further issues to report.

I did the usual monthly updates on my 1909 Home edition desktop yesterday without any apparent issues, at the end of which instead of being offered the option of 2004 I’m now being offered 20H2.

The only odd thing about the updating was that on the restart it displayed a different splash screen (as I recall a blue landscape as against a sandy beach scene) which made me think it might have forced 2004 although that was unlikely as the whole thing took less than half an hour, and sure enough when I checked the build I was still on 1909. Subsequent boot-ups have displayed the original splash screen.

I shall watch the ongoing discussions about both 2004 and 20H2 with interest!

Windows Home 1909. Had 2004 hidden in WUshowhide. Microsoft installed it anyway.

I upgraded to 2004 on 31-‎Oct-‎20 and jumped to 20H2 on ‎03-‎Nov-‎20.
No problems with Lenovo Y530 and Kaspersky A/V (disabled during the upgrades).

Both sides of my dual boot, my NAS and my Dell Latitude E5420 laptop have been on 2004 since it was released; I upgraded with the MCT Thumb Drive as soon as it was made available.

I haven’t had any issues of any kind. I got rid of Libraries, Special Folders and Quick Access as soon as they were introduced, and continue to do so with registry editing (I simply import a couple of .reg files) because I neither need nor want them.

The A side of my dual boot has been running 20H2 since it was made available, my laptop as well and both are without issue as well. I’m holding off on my NAS waiting for the push, but I’ll jump ahead with the MCT Thumb Drive if the push doesn’t happen soon.

I’ve not experienced any of the issues warned about on any of the techy sites, no instability, just good, steady, fast and reliable performance with nothing withheld except for driver updates via Group Policy.

In your article “On the future of Windows 10 feature releases“, you spoke about users being “stuck” on 1909. Personally, I don’t feel stuck at all.

I have deliberately kept our users on 1909. None of them feel “stuck”, either. 1909 is stable and predictable. I don’t take risks on the spring releases, anyway, since it appears that the fall releases are simply service packs that have most of the bugs worked out. But I still won’t take them until they’ve been out for at least a year. We’re on a 365-day cycle that, itself, is delayed, and everything works.

I’ve never thought of our users as guinea pigs, and I don’t think Microsoft should, either. Besides, no one I know cares in the least about any of the new trinkets that Microsoft thinks is worth re-installing an entire operating system for.

Of course, if Microsoft ever returned to us the control of UI colors and metrics that they took away in Windows 10, everyone would demand that feature update immediately, and I’d have to buckle. But Microsoft doesn’t listen to users, so I’m probably safe.

I manage only 10 PCs, but all of those are on 1809 LTSC and will remain there for as long as possible.. There is nothing in 1903 or later that is compelling enough to move to any later version. I can also remove bloat and it stays removed, whereas from 1903 onward each CU restores the bloat.

As for twice yearly feature updates – These things are released at what feels like a pre-alpha stage. The general community is not a good testing framework. The blocks are a joke. Waiting for the next feature release before installing the previous one seems a reasonable idea.

But may people are their own worst enemy. Why do they need to have “The aboslute latest” of everything? Bleeding edge is dangerous. Rushing out and installing this the second it is released then complaining it doesn’t work is just silly.

I think it’s high time for Microsoft to stop with the features, and to spend some months tightening up the security of the Windows OS.

I’m on 20H2 now on both laptop and desktop, and I was on 2004 before that. No major issues to report for either release, just the usual minor niggles, mostly too trivial to make it worth reverting to earlier versions

I can understand those who want to have a stable, reliable, predictable OS to work with, but my own strategy is to wait a while to see if I’m likely to get hit by any showstoppers, and, if it doesn’t look as if I am, upgrade as soon as seems reasonable. In many ways I feel that’s going to make it less likely that I’ll be hit by unexpected system behaviours, because my system will more closely resemble the one that MS do their limited testing on before releasing new stuff into the wild

(I’m assuming that they do some testing, even if it’s just a teeny tiny little bit…)

brian1248 wrote:

How was the upgrade process for 2004 and 20H2?

The update from 2004 to 20H2 is short (like a regular monthly updates, not like a release update).
2004 and 20H2 get exactly the same monthly updates (much like 1903 – 1909).

Microsoft needs to make these “feature upgrades” more evident that they’re more major and not one of the regular monthly patches. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: Microsoft should increment the Windows version number in that case, like Windows 10.1, Windows 10.2, etc., rather than making everything “Windows 10” and then confusingly adding “Version <something something>” while still touting that Windows 10 is the “last version of Windows”.

I do applaud companies for not being like everyone else, but in some circumstances, being different just confuses customers. In this case, Microsoft should just do what everyone else does and increment the major version number of Windows so that users can more easily report that version of Windows 10 they’re running, rather than just “Windows 10” which frustrates me when trying to troubleshoot software issues that exists on one version of Windows 10 but not others.

I have 5 Win 10 Pro PC’s at the house that I’ve updated from 1909 over the last month. They all run well and I was planning on starting my business updates to 2004 in January.

Yesterday I was checking the Windows/Application Event logs and ran across a large number of ESENT event 642’s going back to the date that I did the 2004 upgrade:

svchost (3384,D,46) SRUJet: The database format feature version 9180 (0x23dc) could not be used due to the current database format 1568.20.0, controlled by the parameter 0x410022D8 (8920 | JET_efvAllowHigherPersistedFormat).

I checked the other PC’s that I had upgraded and all have the same warning back to the 2004 upgrade date. Google shows many others with the same issue with no apparent solution other than going back to 1909. I’ve seen no response from MS on this either.

I have no idea what the message really means or what it’s impact is, other than no apparent operational impact on my systems.

Dave

anonymous wrote:

I have the ESENT messages in my event viewer as well on version 20H2. After every cumulative update there are hundreds of them; but they then reduce to just two each boot after that until the next cumulative update. These are warnings, not errors, and seem to be “harmless” as I have not found where they have an effect on anything I’m ever doing. I usually just ignore event viewer warnings and only worry about the errors, especially in Windows 10 where I am using an administrator log on with no password and no Microsoft account (Windows 10 doesn’t seem to enjoy that).

I agree, I don’t normally pay a lot of attention to Application Warnings either.

I checked 2 1909 machines and don’t see this warning at all, so it appears to have started with 2004. I’ve yet to decide if it will effect my decision of when I’ll update my business machines from 1909 to 2004.

Switched to 2004 a month ago and windows backup no longer works.  None of the several online solutions have worked to fix it and I would rather fix it than using 3rd party software.  Remember this happening before when installing v1803.  When I updated to v1809 it fixed the problem.  I have error 0x81000019 every time like before. Ran SFC and DISM as well.  When all is working well, I just wish Microsoft would stop fixing their broken Win10 with patches that mess things up.  Any ideas on how to fix this problem?

@PKCano:

Thanks very much for the links, had already tried those solutions.  Scrubbed the internet looking for a solution.   Am using external HDDs for backups and even tried a brand new HDD and still get the same issue.  Windows backup has always been so reliable in the past.  In the end everyone wants you to use 3rd party software to make backups.  I am just not satisfied with that knowing that I am using a defective operating system.  I am sure Microsoft knows exactly the problem and are not saying.  Maybe when I move 20H2 it will fix it like it did  with 1803 to 1809.  I also know from experience that hope is for fools.  This is  so disappointing.

I am stay with my Windows Xp. Is is safer and has less telemery/spyware from MS. Plus have better control of it. Have not gotten a hacks, virus, ransomware yet in its lifetime…… Xp forever…… Using kernelex for Xp to get some newer browser and programs to work. Thanks the community for supporting it.

anonymous wrote:

I am stay with my Windows Xp. Is is safer

How do you know it’s safer? Can you point us to articles where this is shown to be the case? (Saying you have not been hacked is not evidence of security – lack of evidence is not evidence of lack of a thing.)

cheers, Paul

I’ve been on 2004 for some time on my heavy use 4 monitor professional software development workstation and also several test systems. v2004’s more bloated and less amenable to tuning than its predecessors, but seems quite stable. I have not yet moved to 20H2, though have been thinking about doing so soon.

Given that my job in Quality Engineering is to try to break things on purpose, I’d say 2004’s pretty reliable actually, with corporate networking and communications tools (e.g., Bluejeans teleconferencing, Slack messaging, etc.) being the ones that make the occasional red marks.

-Noel

I updated my W10 Home laptop today and it started downloading 2004 straight away! I didn’t have KB4023057 installed, in fact I’ve just uninstalled it again. I hadn’t wanted to employ too many shenanigans to avoid this feature update because it has to happen sometime and I thought, Oh well, may as well get it over with now. It installed no problem (together with the other bits and bobs) in 1.5 hours. I now have the Meet Now icon in my task bar but I’m quite happy with than because I’ve been doing a lot of skype and it will come in handy. So far, no problems, but I haven’t had time to explore all the new features – or wrestle with any lingering issues – yet. If I get on with it all right, I’ll install 2004 on my desktop W10 Pro come January (currently set to 1909 by Group Policy).

I switched to 2004 in November.  I was on 1903, and had to do something — and at that time Susan was saying 2004 is OK.   I wish I had not made the upgrade.  I started seeing a problem with remembering credentials on one of my NAS drives immediately that I have not been able to resolve after much effort and many tries.  Only then did I see the information that others were having similar problems.  Fortunately, my credentials problem only affects the one NAS drive, so I can live with the consequences.  However, it is disheartening when Microsoft cannot get the major bugs out of a feature release before the next one comes up.

I have Windows 10 Home – I wish MS gave us the option of installing 2004, but we can’t since they released 20H2. It would be nice if they got the the major and moderate bugs out of one update before releasing another.

Ken wrote:

Alex5723: you said “You can install 2004 via windows update if you create a registry key for TVR set to 2004.”. Can you explain in more details, please? I could not find the details in the comments on AKB 2000016. My W10 Home machine has been offered 20H2, not 2004. My W10 Pro has not been offered 2004. I think they both may have the Conexant problem? How do I find out?

Good – I’m not the only one that was totally lost by Alex5723 TRV comment.  I hate messing around with the registry but so be it.

Personally I have updated to 20H2, os build 19042.662.  My desktop computer is working perfectly so far.  I have no complaints.

Seems the right place for this, but long. Let me know or move if you prefer a new topic.

I could REALLY use some clarity. Been here a week or ten days (I particularly to learn about the real information behind Windows 10 Updates) and read a ton. But still confused on updating.

I was (accurately) afraid that the hidden in wushowhide update to 2004 would go away. It did yesterday morning when the Feature Update to 20H2 appeared. I hid the feature update to 20H2. I no longer have the update to 2004 listed. And feature updates do not appear as an Option in the Windows Update applet. There are no “optionals”. One list even if there are more than one update offered of any variety.

Today, a Notification I need some updates and 20H2 was there again. I checked and it still shows as hidden in wushowhide? This is a first for me. Has me very confused.

I am on 1909. Let’s note a few things:

1. I had only 3 things hidden in wushowhide:
Feature Update 20H2
the kb4023057
the 2006 Printer driver – that will not install anyway
Today a Lenovo Monitor driver appeared in wushowhide to be hidden and I did. I am   set  in GP so no drivers are to be downloaded. It did not appear in the Update Applet

2. EVERY time Windows Update or wushowhide runs it produces a small error cab in Elevated Diagnostics. It never did this until about a month ago. I’d like to know what changed and why! But not as important as what is going on and what to do about 20H2 (or 2004 for that matter).

3. I have GPedit set to delay CU for 7 days (while I research) and Feature for 45 days. I do NOT have the option in GPedit to set the Target Release Version under business even though I am on Pro.

4. EVERY previous feature update has changed between 20 and 60 things I have configured on my system from:
Resetting the Recycle Bin Icon
Adds “shortcut” again to desktop shortcuts
Changes Explorer window – Column Sizes
Removed MaxCachedIcons DWORD in Registry again
Reset my disabling of the touch screen
Added Screen Snip to Quick Actions
Disabled System Restore
Changed Core Temp to run maximized on startup
Changed Mapped Network Drives!
etc.

I am willing to learn some new features. Perhaps willing to go through my checklist of 60 some odd items that might get changed from my desired settings. But baffled what to be doing and when in relation to 2004 and/or 20H2. I’d be happy to keep postponing both, but will click and wince if that is the better path now. An OS should not be this angst producing!

So…
What are the recommended settings for GPedit Update delays?
Should I grab 2004 now (if I can)? If not avoid and wait until all clear on 20H2?
What other settings relating to Updates should I consider?
Why do I seem to be different than most (or even all) with Elevated Diagnostics and no Optional Updates?

I simply do not know any longer how to keep a functional OS on my Win 10 computer without hassle.

Thanks.

After I had upgraded the A side of my dual boot using the MCT USB thumb drive, I rebooted into the B side to give it a go there.  The B side is much more customized than my A side; the Users folder is completely (registry edits included) relocated to a separate partition of a different SSD, and various other changes that make the installation unsupported by Microsoft.

I wasn’t expecting the in-place upgrade to work, and indeed, I was only offered a clean install, wiping away all my customizations, which I rejected, and the B side remained 2004.

However, today was different.  I rebooted into the B side so that Windows Updates can get caught up, and was offered the 20H2 Feature Update, as well as a couple of 2004 updates.  The 2004 updates installed and were awaiting restart, and I clicked on “Download and install” for the 20H2 Feature Update, expecting it to back out at some point.

It did not back out.  It installed in this very customized environment without issue, and quite quickly, so I’m now running Windows 10 Pro Version 20H2 (OS Build 19042-630) on both sides of my dual boot.

I wonder if at this time on 1909 with 20H2 out would 2004 set in targetreleaseversion allow windows update update to 2004 or would 20h2 be forced?

Susan Bradley wrote:

rebop

Thanks. Is that then forever? And is that something one should do? Or is it better to defer for a year? And can that even be done if I have already set delays and hidden feature updates?

So frustrating. And as I mentioned, compounded as it seems I am not like most other users with what I see even though  I updated all through 1909.

Ken wrote:

does this request go to Microsoft or to the driver manufacturer or to the pc manufacturer?

The request goes to Microsoft.

Thanks again for bearing with me while I learn new tricks 🙂

OK, let’s assume I wish to use Target Release Version from Regedit to stay on 1909 for now as it is not in my GP settings.

Do I set that first?

Or do I first change the 7 day CU and 45 day Feature delays I have set in GP?

Do I do anything to wushowhide which now has hidden the 2004 Feature Update?

Should I do anything else or anything in a different order than above?

The goal is to stay on 1909 until you say 2004 is 95% safe or better. Then stay there until the same for 20H2. And onward. So I assume when the all clear sounds, I simply change the 1909 in the registry value to 2004, yes?

I am oping after this Win 10 starts to respect my setting to not offer drivers. Still getting some to hide even though I have the proper setting enabled in set in GP.

Also: Would love pointers to where to learn more about the ElevatedDiagnostics from wushowhide and Windows Updates that no one else seems to have. Googling doesn;t seem to find much and not a lot of replies here.

~Bob

My NAS (a PC with a RAID 10 Array in a midtower case) has been running Windows 10 Pro 2004 since it was released.  As I have posted elsewhere in this thread, I upgraded my daily driver desktop PC to 20H2 with the MCT USB thumb drive as soon as 20H2 was released, and have been waiting for the push from Microsoft on my NAS and the B side of my daily driver dual boot.

As I explained in the linked post, on December 8 I rebooted into the B side of my dual boot to get caught up on Windows Updates, was offered 20H2 (details in that post) and got it downloaded and installed without incident.

Yesterday I RDC’d into my NAS to check for updates, and it had also received the push from Microsoft for 20H2, which I downloaded and installed without incident.  Apparently,

KB4592438 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 20H2 for x64-based Systems

had been included in the latest issue of 20H2 Feature Update, since I’m now running Windows 10 Pro Version 20H2 (OS Build 19042.685) on both sides of my daily driver and my NAS, but in “Installed updates” for my NAS it doesn’t show KB4592438.

Everything is running smoothly, no hiccups.

My Dell pc continues to try to install: 2020-12 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 20H2 for x64-based Systems (KB4592438).  But it does not happen.  Is there a way of stopping it or uninstalling? Each time I start my laptop, it checks for updates, finds the one listed here downloads and proceeds to install, it fails to install and tell me to “Try again”.  I now have Security Intelligence Update for Microsoft Defender Antivirus – KB2267602 (Version 1.329.160.0) waiting to install.

Help, please.

Hosea

PKCano wrote:

Be sure you have GP setting under Windows Update set to “2” (notify download/install).
Set TRV to 1909 first. Verify the setting is there.
Then set Quality deferrals = 0 and Feature deferrals = 0 (because if you set TRV, they will be ignored anyway)

When you are ready to upgrade to 2004, you change the 1909 in TRV to 2004.
Once you upgrade to 2004, you will have to revisit the settings because MS changed where they are in 2004.

Setting TRV shouldn’t affect wushowhide.

Thanks. Three questions 🙂

1. Since I do not have the TRV in GP, I will be creating it in the registry. What more can I do to “verify it is there”?
2. Why would I want to change Quality deferrals to “0”? Would I not want those and aren’t a few days valuable to see what people report breaks?
3. Where were things moved to in 2004?

Thanks again.

And one more more general question:

When you folks say installed without incident or without hiccup, is that really true? I have not yet had a feature update that did not re-add “shortcut” to desktop shortcuts, or change my custom recycle bin icon, or re-enable telemetry for M’soft or NVIDIA, or change my Explorer column widths, or disable System Restore,  or….

Am I just the unlucky one or do not people check for these changes after a feature update?

Ken wrote:

On my Lenovo W10 Home version 1909 I have hidden four Realtek updates and one Intel update. I clicked “update system” on Lenovo website but it only came up with BIOS update. Since these updates are hidden from MS, does Lenovo not update them either? Realtek website is all in Chinese so could not look for them. Intel website could not identify update from info taken from MS update request. What to do? Just go ahead and update these through MS?

You will find English Realtek drivers here:

https://www.realtek.com/en/downloads

And I find Lenovo Vantage to show more available drivers than the website for Lenovo.

Ken wrote:

I tried Lenovo Vantage first, only BIOS update offered.

Thank you for Realtek website. I have not idea how to find the updates: Realtek search did not find anything when searching exactly what the update indicates. Can you figure this out, please? I enclose a screen shot of the hidden updates.

 

Sorry Ken. My bad. I used that site to email their Tech Support when the driver offered me by WU which was identical to the one offered in Vantage and the Lenovo site broken the Dolby application. I did not find my driver there.

BTW, they never replied. And my post at the Lenovo forums never got an answer either.

Ken wrote:

I tried Lenovo Vantage first, only BIOS update offered.

I never installed/used Vantage app.
I check on Lenovo’s support page for my Lenovo model and type.
I update manually if required.

There are 10’s of firmware, drivers.. updates.

Minutes ago I download from Intel and installed the latest GPU driver.

Ken wrote:

MS offer

MS offer either universal drives or whatever OEMs feed them (usually old drivers).

Ken wrote:

My question is: How come MS offers updates which Lenovo does not say need updating?

What updates are offered by MS for your Lenovo PC ?

On Lenovo support site did you check the Manual Update ?

Drivers updates are blocked (via GP) on my PC.

Microsoft doesn’t check with Lenovo your model type and serial number before flooding you with drivers.

Ken wrote:

Please see my attachment in #2318756.

No, I did not check manual updates, I went to their system update. Pls give me a link.

What link ?
Go to Lenovo support and enter your PC model, type, serial.. just like in my screenshots.
Never install Microsoft update drivers.
For drivers go to OEM’s sites : Intel, Nvidia, Realtek….

List of hidden driver/software updates :

Susan asked “I think the feature release process needs a redo. I think Microsoft thinks so too. What do you think?”, so here is my view:

If Microsoft extended the Windows 10 support period to longer than 18 months then I could live with having two Windows 10 releases per year.

I am reasonably conservative about Windows releases. I have just migrated one PC from 1909 to 2004 (my other two PCs are still on 1909). This is roughly in line with what Susan seems to be saying about 2004 just about being ready for most conservative users. This means that there is now less than a year before 2004 goes out of support. In the second half of 2021 I will need to evaluate whether 21H1 is mature enough to risk – if not I would have to move to 20H2, which would only give me an extra 6 months of support.

If the Windows 10 support period was longer than 18 months then conservative users could stay on a given release for longer. For example if the support period was 3 years then I could wait for 6 months for a release to mature and still have 2.5 years before being forced to upgrade again (assuming that I had no need for any new functionality in the subsequent releases). At present if I wait for 6 months for a release to mature then I only have a year before I am forced to upgrade again.

Keeping the current release cycle of two Windows 10 releases per year (rather than going to an annual release cycle) would still allow those users that wanted any of the new functionality in a release to get it quicker.

AP