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  • The last word on the Win7 Update scan speedup problem

    Posted on January 8th, 2017 at 07:58 woody Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    I just got a scathing email from SC:

    I just had a fresh installation of a Win7 w SP1 directly downloaded from MSDN. As many people have been complaining, Windows Update did not work – stuck forever. So I googled around, and read a lot of junk articles, speculating this, speculating that, and of course, yours were among those.

    Then I hit this Dell’s official article:

    http://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/4/SLN302694

    In a few minutes, problem became perfectly solved. The root cause was simple, for some stupid reason Microsoft put an old version of Windows Updates Agent into SP1, and it does not work with the current Windows Updates Server. If you get a newer (not sure if it is the latest) WUA, which has been available since at least 3/2016 (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3138612), then the problem will be perfectly solved.

    What a joke. Don’t waste people’s life by taking about things that you don’t really know. It is a crime

    With that, uh, prodding, I decided to bring together everything I know about speeding up Win7 update scans, and post them here in one place. When the Lounge starts (hopefully very soon) I’ll turn this into an AKB article.

    Dell recommends installing KB 3138612 (March 2016) to bring wuaueng.dll up to 7.6.7601.19161. That’s the patch that worked for SC.

    I recommend installing KB 3172605 (July 2016) to bring wuaueng.dll up to 7.6.7601.23453. That seems to work for almost everybody. (It’s also Microsoft’s recommended approach.)

    For those who don’t see their scans speed up, there’s an additional procedure from Canadian Tech that manually resets Windows Update.

    Has anybody ever figured out, for sure, in what circumstances one of those approaches works, while the others do not?

    NOTE: I haven’t heard of any driver conflicts with 3172605 lately. Wonder if those finally got fixed…

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    Home Forums The last word on the Win7 Update scan speedup problem

    This topic contains 173 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  d3x 8 months, 3 weeks ago.

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    • #13701 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I just got a scathing email from SC: I just had a fresh installation of a Win7 w SP1 directly downloaded from MSDN. As many people have been complaini
      [See the full post at: The last word on the Win7 Update scan speedup problem]

    • #13702 Reply

      d3x

      Does someone know why Microsoft won’t use Windows Update autoupdate mechanizm. It’s already there, it would fix problems for many people without manually doing things. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwDdgo1CcAAWE6j.png

    • #13703 Reply

      Lizzytish

      Well touch wood I have been fortunate enough on my Win7 Pro SP1 machine to have had no problems with long delays in scanning for windows update or installing. So where does that leave Dells’ reason for this problem. I would hazard a guess that SC has been lucky enough to find a fix that worked for him, and has also been (like most of us when searching for answers) frustrated and irritated by it all.
      Patience is a virtue………. and all that…. something we need all to remember! LT

    • #13704 Reply

      BB1

      Woody, Myself I have installed: (Source from this site & http://wu.krelay.de/en/)
      – KB3020369 April servicing stack
      (I might have installed KB3177467 Servicing Stack Update September, in Sept)
      – KB3172605 July rollup
      – KB3138612 (my notes indicated “reduce CPU & memory usage” from
      http://wu.krelay.de/en/2016-07.htm)
      – KB3078667 something about memory leak. I don’t think has anything to do with scan speed-up

      I have it installed and working on Win7 pro, home, and starter.

      Again, thanks to everyone

    • #13705 Reply

      messager7777777

      So happen, March 2016 was also when M$ sneaked GWX KB3035583 inside the security update for IE11, ie KB3139929, n changed the UI for the red “X” in the GWX scheduled upgrade window.

      Likely, M$ had also sneaked Telemetry updates inside the March 2016 Windows Update Agent/Client(n inside the following updated WUA), which disabled the WUA of freshly installed Win 7 SP1 cptrs = could not update via Windows Update.
      ……. Bear in mind that from 2011(= release of Win 7 SP1) until March 2016 Patch Tuesday, those who did a fresh install of Win 7 SP1 could update their cptrs via Windows Update, even though the Windows Update Agent had undergone multiple updates(= new versions) during those 5 years.

      Of course, in March 2016, after the fresh install of Win 7 SP1, the affected users could also manually install the 200+ pending security updates, one-by-one, via M$ Update Catalog = quite impractical.
      ……. But today, ie since Jan 2017, even this alternate manual install of security updates(= those from b4 Oct 2016) has likely already been eliminated by M$.
      .
      IOW, from March 2016 onward, this is likely M$’s way of forcing freshly-installed Win 7/8.1 systems n those still-running-Win 7/8.1 cptr users who hv hidden M$’s Telemetry updates since Sep 2015, to ignorantly install their Telemetry updates. Why.? M$’s hidden Telemetry updates may be an NSA spyware.

    • #13706 Reply

      NightOwl

      @ Woody

      Has anybody ever figured out, for sure, in what circumstances one of those approaches works, while the others do not?

      I posted this comment back in Sept., 2016:

      https://www.askwoody.com/2016/windows-7-clean-install-refuses-all-updates/#comment-98242

      This is regarding an article by Ken Morley initially published on Jan. 19, 2016. There are 566 replies dating through Dec. 28, 2016.

      Ken very carefully and with clarity, outlines his experience and methods that involve a *fresh install of Win7* and ending up with a system that endlessly searches for updates. He specifically notes in the replies that he never said his solution applied to the slow downs many were having on their systems that were not a *fresh install of Win7*.

      I then started meticulously documenting everything as I went along and I think I’ve found a solution:

      After the reload, I checked the Windows Update components in C:WindowsSystem32. The components are wuapi.dll, wuapp.exe, wuaclt.exe and wuaeng.dll and all are version 7.5.7601.17514 dated 11/20/2010. Once you launched Windows update or run SURT, these are all updated directly to version 7.6.7600.320. At that point, I get the symptoms described above and there doesn’t appear to be any way to recover.

      When Windows Update is launched, it first updates itself automatically and
      without the user having any option.
      It appears that upgrading the WU components from7.5.7601.17514 directly to 7.6.7600.320 causes the issue. I suspect that it works fine for computers that are updated incrementally.

      It’s a long haul reading through all the replies! Interestingly, you will find replies from CanadianTech where he states this fix will not help, or work! Somewhere along the line, he *finds religion*, and starts singing the praises of this *fix*! And, he goes on and I think helps devise a solution that works on other systems that were not a *fresh install of Win7*.

      Back to the original quote above: “in what circumstances one of those approaches works, while the others do not?” I’m going to bet a lot of failures are due to people applying a fix, but not reading through *all* the steps involved and *actually doing them*! Probably other failures occur when applying a fix that does not precisely apply to their problem–again one has to really read all the details–sometimes including all the *Replies* in a comment section!

      It’s a symptom of our modern era–instant gratification without doing some critical thinking, and putting in the effort to gather necessary information.

      Because Google has index so many webpages–it’s becoming harder and harder to sift through all the chaff to find the kernel–i.e. the *real* answer to our questions!

      (Hope my formatting comes through okay!)

      NightOwl

    • #13707 Reply

      firemind

      I haven’t noticed any slow updating for months. I am in Group B and only install what is needed and/or recommended here.

      I am using one home computer so speed isn’t an issue like it may be for someone servicing a lot of computers.

      I may have installed some ‘service stack’ updates that supposedly sped up windows update but I’m not sure. A few months ago I asked about
      KB3177467 and was told here to hold off installing so I did. On patch day it had disappeared when the monthly updates rolled out.

      After you gave the go ahead I applied the needed updates and then KB3177467 appeared again and all optional updates disappeared.
      .

      I haven’t applied KB3177467 but haven’t noticed any issues.

      I hope this helps.

      One other point: I wish hidden updates stayed hidden. I don’t have Silverlight and don’t want it but it reappears regularly as an optional download.

      I hid 3 Intel “updates” and on patch day 4 were showing. LOL.

    • #13708 Reply

      dave

      SC,

      Just because you got wrong information in the message, DO NOT take the messenger to task. Find fault in the message SOURCE.

      Woody, thanks for all the help and information you have provided to us, at no cost.

      Dave

    • #13709 Reply

      Tom

      KB3172605 fixes it for good.

      (On a clean install, you might have to install KB3020369 first, I’m not 100% sure. I did because someone recommended it and it worked.)

    • #13710 Reply

      John s

      I finally gave up on Windows 7. I had secured a digital license for Win 10 whenn it was free and went back to Win 7. I was hoping to stick with it until late 2019 or to EOL 2020. But the windows update hassle along with its changes really caused me to abandon Win 7 early. I may actually go back to Mac OS or try Linux but will give Win 10 a chance for a while. The frustraition with Windows right now is bad. No good solution and am hoping the next big update for Win 10 gives back some control.

    • #13711 Reply

      Canadian Tech

      There are two posts on the Answers forum that solve this problem. To the best of my knowledge these work in every case.
      http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-7-update-solution/f39a65fa-9d10-42e7-9bc0-7f5096b36d0c
      http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-7-update-problems-read-this-first/28147a5f-b0b0-480b-bed9-834a2da7a375
      These postings have been up since August. They have together had over 300,000 views. Literally thousands have replied with very positive results.

      These solutions work for both re-installs and regular update issues.

      The exceptions (when they do not work) are mostly as a result of not following instructions but in some cases in which the user has executed numerous attempts that have failed, Windows Update gets so screwed up, it does not work any longer. In that case, I recommend a WU reset followed by the same solution – KB3172605.
      https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-update-doesnt-work-even-with-the-solution/1e7c6642-fd2b-4122-a62d-b5dff90b777d?tm=1477181520617

      At long last Microsoft posted a copy of this solution in its knowledgebase.

      Microsoft created this mess. It does not appear that they care very much about it. It almost seems like it is intentionally done to discourage Windows 7 users and lead them to Windows 10. I suspect there was not intentional design, just lack of interest in solving the problem.

      I have read numerous stories on the Answers forum of people paying “Microsoft” technicians hundreds of dollars to fix their windows update problems. None of the stories that I have read indicate that the technicians knew about this solution.

    • #13712 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      This really should be an AKB article – put it all together, in one place, for all posterity….

    • #13713 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      +1

    • #13714 Reply

      abbodi86

      KB3172605 always work
      for those who have issue with it, they better follow the installation instructions carefully and check their system integrity

      KB3138612 works on clean install
      however after installing some security updates (not-yet-identified), the scan slowness returns

    • #13715 Reply

      abbodi86

      +1 ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #13716 Reply

      Canadian Tech

      KB3020369 is a prerequisite for KB3172605. If it is not installed already KB3172605 install will fail. Most systems have it already installed.

    • #13717 Reply

      PKCano

      I did a clean install of Win7 SP1 in Nov 2016. Note that KB3138612 is effective up to a point, then I had to use KB3172605.

      Here are my results (not complete – I stopped where the change took place)

      Note: These updates I DO NOT install: KB2952664, KB3021917, KB30688708, KB3080149, KB050513, KB384143.
      Note: I left “Give me Recommended” checked. I’m not really worried about having Azerbijani-Manat, Lenovo USB fix, Bitlocker fix, Journal removal, etc installed.
      Note: I did the updates in bunches so as not to bog down the computer and to learn something about updates.
      1. I installed Win7 Home Premium SP1 32-bit from scratch.
      2. Before doing WU, I manually installed KB2533552 (error correction) and KB3138612 (Mar 2016 Upd Client).
      3. After reboot, ran WU/reboot multiple times with installs below. The list was much longer than original ch100 list in his post.
      4. Fast scan – Installed ONLY Update for Win7 (nothing else) before 1/1/2015. Reboot.
      5. Made a list of the 35-40 Update for Win7 from 2015-16 and referenced on MS support website.
      6. Fast scan – Installed ONLY Update for Win7 (nothing else) dated 2015. Reboot.
      7. Fast scan – Installed ONLY Update for Win7 (nothing else) dated 2016 except KB3179573 (Aug RU). Reboot.
      8. Fast scan – Installed ONLY Security update for Win7 before 1/1/2015. Reboot.
      9. Fast scan – Installed ONLY Security update for Win7 dated 2015. Reboot.
      10. Slow scan (something in 2015 security upd’s messed up WU). I was forced to manually install KB3020369 and KB3172605 to speed it up. Probably should have done so in the first place.

    • #13718 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      So perhaps SC will see his comeuppance…

    • #13719 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Yep, that’s in my instructions – and yours, and wu.krelay.de…

    • #13720 Reply

      ch100

      @woody

      This was discussed many times, but a lot of people seem to be still confused.
      Maybe you should add some weight to your AKB and post this URL
      https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3200747

    • #13721 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Yep, that’s why I referenced it in the original post (and message back to SC).

    • #13722 Reply

      ch100

      @pkcano

      “I did a clean install of Win7 SP1 in Nov 2016. Note that KB3138612 is effective up to a point, then I had to use KB3172605.”

      You were the first one to notice this behaviour on this site, while I was still promoting KB3138612 as the best solution, mostly based on my testing, which was done only on a clean image where it works, up to a point as you say. I was promoting KB3138612 also because it was and still is rated as Critical Update while KB3172605 was Optional – now it is Recommended after being revised in September 2016 – still rated lower than KB3172605, because of the known issues with Intel Bluetooth which majority of people should ignore and the remainder of users should just discontinue using Bluetooth on a PC/laptop (if it is not too inconvenient :)).

      Abbodi86 and I had few exchanges here and we both confirmed what you describe here about KB3138612 vs KB3172605.

      Conclusion: KB3138612 is fully superseded at the component level (internally in Windows) by KB3172605, but the earlier one still comes as Critical on WU and to satisfy (cosmetic only) WU criteria, it is suggested to be installed as well.

      Do not hide updates which you don’t need! Just leave them not installed. There is a lot happening in WU and it is better to allow Microsoft to manage dynamically the updates.

      Take this as absolute current recommendation:
      https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3200747

      There is good information from Canadian Tech as discussed many times here and this confirms based on extensive experience exactly the same.

      Also good reading (mostly for Enterprise users like any Technet article, but end-users can get few good ideas from there too), but be aware that there are few downsides – read all comments for full understanding:

      Windows 7 refreshed media creation
      https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/astoica/2017/01/03/windows-7-refreshed-media-creation/

    • #13723 Reply

      ch100

      @John s
      I would suggest that if you are reasonably happy with Windows 10, give it a go for at least few months before deciding otherwise.
      This is the best approach, unlike many of the posters here who swear that they will never upgrade, but I am convinced that most did the same during Windows XP to Windows Vista/7 transition.
      Disable Cortana and Store Apps if they are annoying or don’t find them useful and you are basically set. Set Telemetry to Basic (or Security if you use Enterprise or Education).
      Anything else that you will hear about spying and other stuff is just noise and distraction. The so called spying serves only commercial purpose and to some extent product enhancement.
      One last thing, use Professional or higher edition if you have this option.

    • #13724 Reply

      ch100

      Put KB3138612 in the history bin ๐Ÿ™‚
      It served its purpose well from March 2016 until June 2016 when KB3161608 was released in June 2016.
      Now KB3172605 supersedes KB3161608 and it makes little sense to discuss KB3138612 any longer.
      http://www.infoworld.com/article/3099109/microsoft-windows/microsoft-yanks-buggy-speed-up-patch-kb-3161608-replaces-it-with-kb-3172605-and-3172614.html

    • #13725 Reply

      Marty

      I installed KB3138612 via Windows Update on 4/29/2016. It may have solved the slow WU problem for a short while, but within a month or so, I was back to scans that took hours. Not until I manually installed KB3172605 on 11/19/2016 was the slow scan problem permanently solved (at least so far). Scans now take just a couple of minutes.

      This result reflects the identical behavior of five Win7 computers in my household.

    • #13726 Reply

      anonymous

      Thanks to everyone here, my recent experience of re-installing W7 Pro X64 worked out pretty well.
      The original disk (Dell) was pre-SP1. Installed without difficulty. Then followed the sequence of manual installs (downloaded in advance from the Microsoft Update Catalog). Ran WU and that got me SP1 without any glitch. Continued with the recommended manual installs, ran WU and got offered about 50 updates in total between important, recommended and optional.

      Then hit a brick wall – WU spinning its wheels for hours and hours with no outcome.
      Manually installed KB3172605. Ran WU and was offered over 200 updates within a few minutes.

      To my surprise, there were only 4 updates that I rejected for telemetry, all of which were on my original s*** list from Win10. Also a few that I have chosen to ignore for the moment, but they are all on the Optional side. Apart from that (and the latest rollups) everything seemed worth installing.

      I’m in Group B, btw and prepared to go to W if/when necessary.

    • #13727 Reply

      Mike in Texas

      Same here…

      I *think* I don’t have any of the telemetry or surprise Microsoft patches for the last year and Update works fine for me on Win7x64 Pro.

      I’m also in group B and manually install from catalog, turn on windows update afterwards to see what it reports and hide stuff (like intel), etc. Then turn Windows update back off.

      I know this is probably paranoid/overkill since I have WU to only show patches and let me install them but I don’t trust MS any longer after how they’ve done stuff for the past year.

      Creating System Restore points before any software changes and doing two Acronis TrueImage backups a month to extra offline disks.

      I’ve only restored from backups twice in last 4 years, but they’re worth it and saved my butt.

      I may not comment a heck of a lot, but I read nearly every thread posted on Askwoody for self-education.

    • #13728 Reply

      abbodi86

      No matter how much i see of wrong info and windows conspiracy theories, the amount of imaginary FUD still amaze me

    • #13729 Reply

      abbodi86

      1- Because that will require them to update all WSUS products
      2- They do not want to make it easy for pre Windows 10 users

      ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #13730 Reply

      Randy Knowles

      Hi Woody,

      I am a computer repair tech in Tennessee. I have installed, reinstalled, and repaired Windows 7 dozens of times since the “stuck update” fiasco. I can tell you without a shadow of doubt that Canadian Tech has given the solution here:

      https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-update-doesnt-work-even-with-the-solution/1e7c6642-fd2b-4122-a62d-b5dff90b777d

      It has worked everytime for me and like I said I’ve used it dozens of times. Best wishes.

      Randy Knowles

    • #13731 Reply

      Steve

      I just did a clean reinstall of Windows 7 Home Premium. I have the Win7 installation disk (supplied with my machine from Dell) but it does not have SP1. After reinstalling Win7 and starting Windows Update (WU), one of the first updates offered was SP1. After installing this and rebooting, WU offered an update to SP1. I installed that and rebooted again. The next step was to follow your recommendation of installing KB3020369 then KB3172605 before installing any other update. After doing so all of the remaining updates installed quickly and smoothly.

      Let me tell you before following your instructions, WU on my machine was totally broken. It would take some updates hours to install and others did not install at all. Also, I use Secunia 2.0 and it would not give me notice of any of the Windows patches. Now everything is running the way it should. Maybe this does not work for everyone but it certainly worked for me.

      Thanks for all that you do.

    • #13732 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ CT ……. In Sep 2016, I did a fresh install of Win 7 SP1 Pro 32bit for a cptr Dummy relative who had experienced a hard-drive failure. Got it activated n Windows Update set to non-automatic. On the 1st run of WU, it found n installed 2 ancient updates, ie KB2xxxxxx. Thereafter, the cptr could not be updated, ie ‘Checking for updates’ ran for hours unsuccessfully.

      The relative took the non-updated cptr home. Shortlyafter, somehow, when he ran WU again, the ‘Checking for updates’ was successful n 200+ important updates were found n installed. Being a cptr Dummy, he must hv also installed M$’s post-Sep 2015 Telemetry updates.
      ……. If it was my cptr, I would not hv installed M$’s Telemetry updates when offered by WU/M$, eg KB2952664, KB3021917, KB3068708, KB3080149, KB3050513, KB3022345.

      IOW, if the Win 7/8.1 cptr users ‘submit’ to M$ n allow their Telemetry updates to be installed, M$ will allow their cptrs to be updated, either freshly-installed ones or still-running ones(eg installed KB3172605, the July 2016 Rollup).
      ……. M$ will not allow those who do not ‘submit’ to Telemetry updates to update their Win 7/8.1 cptrs.
      .
      .
      .
      P S – Initially, when I did the Win 7 SP1 Pro fresh install with the Internet connected but without immediately entering the COA Product Key, the installed Win 7 was unusable, ie no Start button n Task bar.
      ……. Had to to do another fresh install without the Internet connected. Install was successful, ie got a functioning Win 7. Connected the Internet, entered the PK n it was activated by M$-servers.
      ……. Seems M$ do not like people installing Win 7 without immediately entering their PK, ie M$ r very suspicious of pirates.

      I hv read about Win 7/8.1 cptr users experiencing similar problems when they did not immediately enter their PK during a fresh install/upgrade to Win 10 via the Win 10 Media Creation Tool with the Internet connected, ie the installed Win 10 could not be activated.

    • #13733 Reply

      Carl D

      On a related note, does anyone know the reason why Windows 8.1 has started having the same update issues as Windows 7 (and Vista)?

      As I’ve mentioned once or twice before in other topics, up until about the middle of last year Windows 8.1 had absolutely no update issues – for me, at least.

      I did several Windows 8.1 installs about 6 months ago and the initial check for updates took less than 5 minutes and after the first reboot the other updates appeared immediately (I did security updates only first then the rest).

      Now it has the same update issues and W7 and Vista.

      This is yet another reason why I strongly suspect that this whole update fiasco with Vista, 7 and now 8.1 has been deliberately ‘engineered’ by MS to frustrate users and get them to move to Windows 10.

      Glad I keep Windows 7 offline these days and only use Linux Mint for the Internet. The sheer amount of time and effort being wasted worldwide by people trying to keep any version of Windows (apart from 10 and especially 7) updated is absolutely mind boggling.

    • #13734 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      +1

      And I fear that sometimes I’m the one dispensing it….

    • #13735 Reply

      Brandon

      Yeah weird how the WUD client in SP1 would cause issues. I verified the slow down when I used WUD before SP1 was installed on a W7 version- it ran at normal pace, after SP1 it was slower than anything. used the updates from the .de site and it fixed the issue

    • #13736 Reply

      Michael

      +5

      Fully agreed. Sure, if you have the time to search through every individual hardware vendor’s tech support article, you may come across something that the more direct software vendor SHOULD be telling us about. But no, SC would rather shoot the messenger who’s been trying to cobble together all the various “sources of truth” from amid all the misinformation.

      SC, you found some info about great vexation for us yourself, congrats. But don’t knock down someone who has been trying to provide a VERY useful service. The crime here is your not being a bit more circumspect.

    • #13737 Reply

      abbodi86

      If it’s a deliberate move, why Windows 8.1 took a whole yesr after Windows 7 to have it?
      and why they fix it finally? ๐Ÿ™‚
      Windows 10 RTM also suffer the same issue now

      it’s just bad engineering related to the supersedence chain metadata

    • #13738 Reply

      ch100

      … and the Enterprise users can cope because they are used to it โ˜•โ˜•โ˜•

    • #13739 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ abbodi86 ……. No, it was not ‘a whole year’. Broken Windows Update for Win 7 only began occurring around March 2016 n for Win 8.1, it occurred a few months later around July 2016 according to Carl D.
      ……. IOW, M$ had broken Win 7 first n then broke Win 8.1, …likely bc of Win 7’s much bigger market share.
      .
      If u were M$’s Nadella, u would likely also do what Carl D has suspected of M$, ie ‘engineering’ broken WU in Win 7/8.1 for greedy/selfish purposes.

    • #13740 Reply

      ch100

      Well, enterprise admins actually ?

    • #13741 Reply

      Carl D

      Only MS would be able to tell us the reason why Windows 8.1 is now having the same update issues as 7 and Vista. But, even the most trusting of folk must be getting suspicious of MS’s intentions. Especially after their behaviour with the GWX campaign.

      Fix it finally? Have they really done that? The solutions (temporary as they seem to be because the same issue reappears each month) have been discovered by people like Canadian Tech and others with no help from MS. MS have finally acknowledged the issue (about time) and made an article about it but I doubt whether the average computer user would know about it or would even be able to find it.

      They could ‘fix’ the issue with W7 by having the latest Windows Update Client and whatever else is needed to ensure quick updating install themselves when you check for updates after a clean installation of W7 SP1. But, it seems MS just isn’t interested – presumably because they want everyone on W10.

      It really is class action lawsuit stuff if it were possible to do. Imagine the uproar if antivirus and antimalware programs had the same update issues as Windows has nowadays.

      When you look at all the ‘hoops’ that even experienced users have to jump through just to get updates for W7 these days I’m sure that the average computer user would have virtually no chance of ever figuring out why their machines won’t update so they would either just not update their machines at all (big security risk of course) or move to W10 which is what MS wants.

      Oh, one of the lines in my last post should read “Now it has the same update issues as W7 and Vista not “Now it has the same update issues and W7 and Vista”.

    • #13742 Reply

      ch100

      I think they should expire more of the older superseded updates. On WSUS if I approve only the top level updates and decline all supersede, I don’t notice the slow scan even with 7.6.7601.320. It is clear that a little bit more management on the WU servers would resolve this issue. But I think that not removing old updates is intended for those who may need to rollback.

    • #13743 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ John s ……. Fyi, there is no problem using a non-updated Win 7 or being in Canadian Tech’s Group C(= woody’s Group W), as long as the user practices safe-browsing or even no-browsing/offline, eg avoid torrenting for the latest music or movies or games.

      .
      About using Win 10, maybe it’s a good idea for u to check out this link about its many problems…
      https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-update-winpc?sort=lastreplydate&dir=desc&tab=threads&status=all&mod=&modAge=&advFil=&postedAfter=&postedBefore=&threadType=all&tm=1483927605359

    • #13744 Reply

      messager7777777

      -10

    • #13745 Reply

      James Bond 007

      “But the windows update hassle along with its changes really caused me to abandon Win 7 early.”

      Microsoft has succeeded in driving you to “upgrade” through the Windows Update changes. Count as a success to Microsoft.

      “No good solution and am hoping the next big update for Win 10 gives back some control.”

      Don’t hold your breath for it. In fact I predict Microsoft will tighten even more and allow even less control (to consumers) with the next big update.

    • #13746 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #13747 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ d3x ……. Maybe bc it was M$ themselves who had intentionally broken Windows Update for Win 7 in March 2016, in order to force the Win 7 users to upgrade to Win 10 or install their hidden Telemetry updates(= NSA spyware.?).
      ……. Maybe similar reasons for why M$ imposed monthly cumulative Patch Rollups for Win 7/8.1 in Oct 2016.?
      .
      Of course M$ n their supporters/shills will say otherwise, ie these changes r for yr own good.

    • #13748 Reply

      abbodi86

      It began for Windows 7 in May 2015, few months later fot Vista
      anyway, keep enjoying your trip at Mars ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #13749 Reply

      abbodi86

      Windows 8.1 is about 2 years newer than Windows 7 SP1, so it took it more time to reach the similar limit for superseded updates chain issue

      Yes, July 2016 rollup is a permanent fix for the issue
      MS acknowledged and announced the fix since day 1 with June 2016 rollup KB articles:
      https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3163023

      i agree that they could facilitate the fix, but they do not feel obligated to do it
      maaybe they will do it when the security monthly rollup become fully cumulative

    • #13750 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ abbodi86 ……. The main point is that Windows Update for Win 7 cptrs was working fine since its release in 2009, n similarly for Win 7 SP1 cptrs since its release in 2011, notwithstanding the many updates to the Windows Update Agent/Client thru’out the years.
      ……. For whatever reason/s, Windows Update for many Win 7 cptr users only stopped working properly around March 2016, the same month when M$ began to aggressively push Win 10 onto tech-savvy Win 7 cptr users n a few months after introducing Telemetry updates for Win 7/8.1. Logic n timing say that these 2 or 3 events r related/connected.
      .
      Comparison; … Win XP was released in 2001 n Win XP SP3 reached its EOL in 2014. Windows Update n WUA for Win XP were not broken during all those years.
      ……. In fact, Win XP SP3- Embedded cptrs r still receiving security updates from M$ via M$-website, ie until 2019. In 2014, the US Navy paid M$ about US$3million for extended Win XP SP3 support, ie for security updates(= until 2017.?).
      .
      So, it is preposterous that Windows Update n WUA for Win 7 r broken for many users, ie M$ n their supporters/shills hv no valid excuse, …n pls don’t blame the users.

    • #13751 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ Lizzytish ……. AFAIK, from March 2016 onward, those cptr users with running Win 7/8.1 who hv the default automatic setting for Windows Update n are in Group A should hv no problems with updating, ie they already hv M$’s hidden/displayed Telemetry updates installed since around Sep 2015.
      ……. ‘Big Brother’ M$ would likely only go after the others by breaking their Windows Update, esp those who hv refused to install their hidden Telemetry updates – similar to how M$ hv been going after Windows pirates(eg the WGA/Windows Genuine Advantage update).

    • #13752 Reply

      ch100

      Most of the times you get it right though ๐Ÿ˜€ ๐Ÿ˜€ ๐Ÿ˜€

    • #13753 Reply

      ch100

      For Win 8.1 use the equivalent patches:
      KB3021910 – Servicing Stack Update April 2015
      KB3172614 – July 2016 Rollup

    • #13754 Reply

      ch100

      Do you realise what you say here?

      “The solutions (temporary as they seem to be because the same issue reappears each month) have been discovered by people like Canadian Tech and others with no help from MS.”

      Canadian Tech has not developed any update, they were developed and released by Microsoft.
      Canadian Tech only explained it to you and others in plain English.

    • #13755 Reply

      Rob

      Group B, self taught Windows Techie since Windows 3.11, avid magazine buyer in the early days and never had slow WU scans since 2009 on two devices.

      Storm in a tea-cup if you ask me..

      Recently done a clean install of Windows 7 HP & Pro following Woody’s guide without a hitch. Thanks again!
      Printed it out and followed EVERY step sequentially.

      Perhaps that article should be highlighted in the lounge?

    • #13756 Reply

      Carl D

      John S,

      I’ve also decided to give Windows 10 another try (because I like to ‘tinker’ and 10 is kinda fun to play with) ๐Ÿ™‚

      But, I have it on a second SSD inside my computer tower and as soon as I installed 10 and made sure it was activated (I have a ‘digital entitlement’ from a copy of Windows 8.1 that I have here) and the extra drivers that I needed were installed I immediately took it offline (Network Adapter disabled in Control Panel) before it installed any other updates.

      So, it is just W10 Anniversary Update (1607) with no further updates installed.

      Then, I ran O&O’s ShutUp10 to disable all of the annoying things and after that I set up a dual boot with Linux Mint 17.3

      I might format, reinstall and do the same thing in April when the ‘Creator’s Update’ is released.

      So, I have 3 SSD’s in my computer tower:

      1. Windows 7 Professional and Linux Mint.
      2. Windows 10 Home and Linux Mint.
      3. Data drive (for pictures, videos, music, Macrium images, etc.).

      I just switch the SATA cable between drives 1 and 2 – after shutting the PC down and switching the power off of course – depending on which one I want to use.

      Both Windows 7 (SP1 level only) and Windows 10 do not have Internet access – ever. Windows (any version) is just too much hassle to use online these days, in my opinion.

    • #13757 Reply

      __philippe

      CanadianTech “additional procedure” to reset Windows Update worked like a charm on 8-Jan-2016.

      After executing the Command prompt (as Administrator) reset steps detailed in CanadianTech procedure, it took exactly 15 minutes for Windows update to complete successfully.

      Thanks to CT for “The Solution” to the never-ending Win7 Update saga…;-)

      __philippe

    • #13758 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      It’s definitely going to be referenced.

      But don’t fall into the “it isn’t broke on my machine so it isn’t broke” syndrome.

    • #13759 Reply

      __philippe

      (Date typo above should read 8-Jan-2017, of course).

      BTW, executing further Win Update check a day later
      now completes in a most reasonable 6 minutes.

      __philippe

    • #13760 Reply

      Rob

      hmm..so it is broke then if you take into account the updates via Windows Update for Defender and Microsoft Security Essentials.

      If Microsoft want everyone to follow their update procedure then they surely need to fix WU file attribute/date structure..what a mess!

    • #13761 Reply

      MrBrian

      ‘Microsoft to fix Windows XP update SVCHOST redline issue โ€œsoonโ€’ (2013) – https://www.askwoody.com/2013/microsoft-fix-windows-xp-update-svchost-redline-issue/

    • #13762 Reply

      Canadian Tech

      ch100, you are precisely correct. I did not develop any solution. Working with 3 other people in the Answers Forum, we discovered how to fix the problem using Microsoft software.

      Really all we did, was to explain how to do it in terms people can understand. We know that this is a temporary thing and that it could become irrelevant on any patch Tuesday.

      The strength came from repeated success time and time again until it was no longer a controversy.

      The shame of it all is that the situation was created by Microsoft which then took no action to solve it. In fact, even today, “Microsoft technicians” continue to “solve” this problem for online customers incorrectly. Sometimes leaving customers with non-op computers.

    • #13763 Reply

      Volume Z

      It started for Windows 7 and Vista simultaneously on August 11, 2015 5 PM UTC due to release of KB3078601. ๐Ÿ™‚

      https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-7-not-able-to-get-any-aug11-updates/1dfffbce-1e8d-4869-9b6b-0b8d870bac6e

    • #13764 Reply

      Lizzytish

      Well thanks for the tip @messager7777777 and yes I do understand your reasoning…… but I am in Group B and have been avoiding all things telemetry in WU since the in inception of GWX and also have SpyBot Anti Beacon watching my back. I also have CEIP turned off. (my apologies for not mentioning this earlier – forgot!)

      And yet with all this and only updating the Security Patches per Woody, my computer has not shown any sluggishness when searching for and updating.

      I must admit I’m touching wood….. as none of us know what’s around the corner………. but up until now my Win7 SP1 Pro 64bit machine has not experienced any slow updating! And for that matter neither has my husbands Win8.1, which also is in Group B. LT

      Nothing remains constant except change itself. — unknown

    • #13765 Reply

      messager7777777

      Excerpts from(a complaint against M$ dated 17 July 2016) …….
      https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-7-ultimate-unauthorized-update-to-windows/c9351fc7-418e-4bff-909b-5f97248196f8
      .
      “Just recently we upgraded to SSD’s for our Workstations and did a reinstall of Windows 7 Ultimate BECAUSE We do NOT want nor are we ready for Windows 10 – and unfortunately the “Update” process is oddly way beyond the norm here and taking way too long. We are on day 2 of waiting for “Updates” and have left our Workstation computer running and recording the process for verification of this unusually lengthy Update of Windows 7 Ultimate and Professional on two PC’s on different networks. Again, this is just wrong!

      As for our internet and network – we have done tests to make sure and re-did the
      process to make sure it was not our network, or our PC Workstations, or SSD’s.
      Also, our internet connection speeds are 7 to 15 Ping, 214 Mbps, and 21.16 Upload
      so clearly our network speed and connection is NOT the problem.

      In the past several years we have done Windows 7 Ultimate re-installations and
      never experienced anything like this. The normal Update time frame it takes for
      Windows 7 Ultimate in our experience, has been several hours to max 7-10 hours.
      And although this is an unusually long time for simple updates to process, it has
      never taken over 1 day. But now it seems that time frame has been extended by more
      than 2 days and counting, as I write this email post. The size of the updates is also very small considering it’s a few hundred MB to just over 1Gb.

      Clearly, Microsoft has done nothing to address these issues – especially for loyal
      paying customers that use Windows 7 Ultimate or other paid versions of Windows 7.
      We have done tests on both Windows 7 Pro and Ultimate and the same unusually long
      time of over 2 days is now happening, in two different PC Workstations – one of which
      is 3 months old. Clearly, this is NOT right!”

    • #13766 Reply

      LoneWolf

      My procedure is to run a scripted set of installs.

      1). Check WUAPI.DLL; I’ve found this to be a better indicator than WUAUENG.DLL for Windows Update Agent version.
      2) NET STOP WUAUSERV. This speeds up patching.
      3) Run the April 2015 Servicing Stack for Windows 7 SP1. This assumes there are no other prerequisites prior to this (most of our workstations, not an issue). This is kb3020369. It does not require a restart.
      4) NET STOP WUAUSERV. Each patch you apply restarts it, so every time, gotta do it again.
      5) Install the July 2016 Update Rollup for Windows 7, KB3172605.
      6. Restart the computer

      At this point, if things don’t work, there’s another problem. This has greatly helped my patch compliance on hundreds of computers. User SC had one slightly outlying experience from yours and unfortunately, became snotty and snobbish instead of politely contributing his/her experience. A good tech isn’t an arrogant tech, so I’d discount his experience, and back up your experience and that of others here. Haters gonna hate.

    • #13767 Reply

      James Bond 007

      “I just switch the SATA cable between drives 1 and 2 โ€“ after shutting the PC down and switching the power off of course โ€“ depending on which one I want to use.”

      Does your computer’s BIOS/UEFI have a feature to selectively disable SATA ports?

      If it has such a feature, you can use it to disable the port connected to the disk you don’t want to use at that time. That way both disks can stay connected all the time and there will be no need to open the case to switch cables.

      I use Gigabyte motherboards and the motherboards with UEFI (Ivy Bridge and later, and several Sandy Bridge models) have such a feature. I use it to disable all disks except the startup disk when I want to reinstall Windows from scratch, and then reenable them.

      Of course your method will work as well, but I would prefer not opening the case if it is not absolutely necessary.

    • #13768 Reply

      Lizzytish

      @Carl D ….. when Woody’s Lounge opens there will be a forum dedicated to different OS’s and one will be about Linux. I’m hoping that you would be able to see your way to giving us your input on the different distros and also how to go about setting them up. So this is an invitation to come and have chat with those who would like to hear and learn more when it’s all up and running. (hope I haven’t overstepped the mark here Woody!) LT

      You never fail until you stop trying.

    • #13769 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Right on, right on!

      Gotta get the Lounge up….

      The Lounge is means for Windows victims – which covers a whole lotta ground these days.

    • #13770 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      +1

    • #13771 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      HA! Stab from the past….

    • #13772 Reply

      zero2dash

      September servicing stack update + July rollup (as linked http://wu.krelay.de/en/ and referenced here by Woody) pulls Win updates in a fresh 7 VM in roughly 2 minutes, yielding 140ish updates needing to be applied.

      OP sounds like they have a case of PEBKAC.

    • #13773 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      PEBKAC?

    • #13774 Reply

      MrBrian

      Some of you may have missed this recent comment of mine in a different blog post:
      “This article provides more insight into the causes” – https://www.askwoody.com/2016/still-no-answer-to-the-source-of-win7-slow-scanning/comment-page-1/#comment-111949.

    • #13775 Reply

      Volume Z

      It’s happening right now on POSReady 2009 due to the Cumulative Security Update for IE. :/

      http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/171814-posready-2009-updates-ported-to-windows-xp-sp3-enu/?do=findComment&comment=1133123

    • #13776 Reply

      messager7777777

      Maybe, M$ should hv released a Win 7 SP2 to fix this problem for good.

    • #13777 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ MrBrian ……. U said, …”โ€˜Microsoft to fix Windows XP update SVCHOST redline issue โ€œsoonโ€โ€™ (2013) โ€“ ”
      .
      But did M$ fix this similar issue for Win 7 which has festered for quite a long while.?

    • #13778 Reply

      Anon

      +1

      Woody, your help has been invaluable.

    • #13779 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Look at the date…

    • #13780 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Thanks for cross-posting. Saves people a whole lot of time and frustration.

    • #13781 Reply

      PKCano

      Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair

    • #13782 Reply

      abbodi86

      Nope
      i personally experienced the issue on Windows 7 since the beginning, and i’m absolutely sure it started in May 2015, just around time when GWX released ๐Ÿ™‚
      at first the delay was merely minutes (up to 10)

      i do not use Vista, so i do not know when it started precisely

    • #13783 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      HARRRRRRRRRRRR!

    • #13784 Reply

      abbodi86

      The issue started in May 2015
      and of course the blame is on Microsoft side
      and for sure the cause is in the metadata they send for WU client

      but that does not prove or even indicate any of the imaginary FUD

    • #13785 Reply

      zero2dash

      Woody, I’m surprised you haven’t heard that one yet. ๐Ÿ˜€

    • #13786 Reply

      Jonathan

      Does these procedure work with Vista SP2. It since July that I’ve not install any update

    • #13787 Reply

      ch100

      +1 ๐Ÿ˜€

    • #13788 Reply

      ch100

      Yes, fixed by ending support ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #13789 Reply

      ch100

      “i personally experienced the issue on Windows 7 since the beginning, and iโ€™m absolutely sure it started in May 2015, just around time when GWX released”

      Now you are the one fuelling conspiracy theories ๐Ÿ˜€ ๐Ÿ˜€ ๐Ÿ˜€

    • #13790 Reply

      ch100

      +1 ๐Ÿ™‚

      “Microsoft” is not a single person and although one would expect certain issues to be managed better, the current situation is typical for any large enough organisation.

    • #13791 Reply

      ch100

      “Storm in a tea-cup if you ask me.”

      +1 ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #13792 Reply

      ch100

      Thanks MrBrian ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #13793 Reply

      ch100

      There is no need for speed-up patches if you install all updates regularly, each month. Those affected are mostly non-regular updaters or those who build new installations.
      This is true for any operating system and in particular for those who start showing their age and have hundreds of updates available.

    • #13794 Reply

      Jack

      I have one machine with Vista Home Premium x64 (SP2). Since July, I have had to install every update manually. This makes Windows Update function normally again, until the next set of updates rolls out. When installing the updates manually from the Update Catalog, sometimes the Standalone Installer will hang, and Windows Update Service needs to be restarted. Eventually all updates are installed, but what a pain…

    • #13795 Reply

      Canadian Tech

      Volume Z, has laid out Vista tips here:

      Vista speedup https://answers.microsoft.com/message/9366cc04-59d6-4b37-bee9-dffcdc7c602a

    • #13796 Reply

      vwneio

      i use WSUS offline, ***** the malware updates, disable em.

    • #13797 Reply

      Canadian Tech

      In 3 more months, you will have no more pain because there will be no more Win ups for Vista after April

    • #13798 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      [sigh]

    • #13799 Reply

      Volume Z

      I’m absolutely sure it started in Windows 7 and Vista due to release of KB3078601, the first trigger identified by Dalai, released for both OSs simultaneously. Also I’m absolutely sure it was working fine in Windows 7 as well as Vista in May 2015. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #13800 Reply

      Albin

      My experience (two machines) last July confirmed the suspicion that MS sabotaged Win Update for a year on W7 at least on W10 eligible machines, but it returned to speed immediately with disappearance of the unused W10 nag icon. I cherrypicked KBs to avoid autoupgrades and telemetry but did nothing special to return to normal W7 Update connection and speed last Summer.

    • #13801 Reply

      T

      I prefer PICNIC:

      Problem
      In
      Chair
      Not
      In
      Computer

    • #13802 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ abbodi86 ……. U said, …”It began for Windows 7 in May 2015, few months later fot Vista
      anyway, keep enjoying your trip at Mars. ( : ”
      .
      .
      .
      From May 2015 onward, Windows Update for a clean install of Win 7 slowed down to a few hours, but still working. But from around March 2016 onward, it was broken or not working at all. Users like Canadian Tech had to hunt for a fix. M$.?
      ……. Pls refer to this link.
      .
      https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-7-ultimate-unauthorized-update-to-windows/c9351fc7-418e-4bff-909b-5f97248196f8
      .
      With about 200 pending important updates for a clean installed Win 7 in 2015, the slow-down was likely to happen. A Win 7 SP2 fix.?
      ……. Was there any permanent fix and/or info/publicity from M$ for the slowness or brokenness.?
      ……. Maybe, this was M$’s way to push Win 7 users onto Win 8/8.1 and then onto Win 10.

    • #13803 Reply

      Volume Z

      This is a point of view that doesn’t correspond with reality.

      You cannot operate Windows Update in Windows Vista without having to apply at least one update manually per Patch Day.

      No matter how hard you try.

    • #13804 Reply

      abbodi86

      Sometimes the truth hurts ๐Ÿ˜€

    • #13805 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ zero2 ……. The problem is, people using Linux OS, MacOS, Android OS n iOS do not hv to self-fix such updating problems, eg manually installing this or that KB.
      ……. The problem lies with TPTB.

    • #13806 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ ch100 ……. Win 7 is still supported until 2020.

    • #13807 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ woody ……. Which date.?

    • #13808 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ ch100 ……. How come Apple(= MacOS n iOS), Google(= ChromeOS n Android OS) n Linux hobbyists(= Linux OS) could manage their update systems well, but not M$.?
      .
      Maybe, it’s bc only M$ use Windows Update for nefarious purposes, eg to push Win 7 users onto Win 10.

    • #13809 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      MrBrian’s post was from four years ago.

    • #13810 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      !

    • #13811 Reply

      Volume Z

      No, it’s sheer logic. The general update issue is caused by triggers known as magic patches. Each magic patch is effective only because and as long as it also is a problem. I have a reason to maintain the beginning of the issue is August 11, 2015 and started in 2 OSs simultaneously. It simply makes sense.

      Regards, VZ

    • #13812 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ woody ……. I was aware of the 2013 year.

      My point was that the update problem for Win XP was fixed by M$ = Win XP users did not hv to manually install this or that KB to fix the problem.
      ……. The similar update problem for Win 7 was not fixed by M$ = tech-savvy Win 7 users had to hunt for the solution themselves, which was to manually install this or that KB to fix the problem. Imagine Dummy Win 7 users doing that.

    • #13813 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ ch100 ……. U said, …”Canadian Tech has not developed any update, they were developed and released by Microsoft.
      Canadian Tech only explained it to you and others in plain English.”
      .
      .
      Yes, M$ were the ones who issued KB3020369, the April 2015 Servicing Stack update, n KB3172605, the July 2016 Rollup. But M$ did not state or inform their users that the two KB’s would fix problems/issues with broken Windows Update for a clean install of Win 7 SP1. It was Canadian Tech n friends who discovered this fix, not M$.

      https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/3020369/april-2015-servicing-stack-update-for-windows-7-and-windows-server-2008-r2
      https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/3172605/july-2016-update-rollup-for-windows-7-sp1-and-windows-server-2008-r2-sp1
      https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-7-update-solution/f39a65fa-9d10-42e7-9bc0-7f5096b36d0c

    • #13814 Reply

      GoTheSaints

      Or having a technician fix a computer and listing this error code on an invoice: ID 10 T ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • #13815 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      +1

    • #13816 Reply

      abbodi86

      My reply about the truth was addressed to @ch100 ๐Ÿ˜€

      i know how WU works, and i know how to monitor its activity
      i have seen the delay with my own eyes in May 2015 with several tests ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #13817 Reply

      AJ North

      Regarding the loss of Bluetooth with Windows 7 after installing KB3172605 (or KB3161608):

      The procedure outlined by Intel at https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/network-and-i-o/wireless-networking/000022410.html has successfully restored Bluetooth functionality on every affected machine that I’ve used it on.

    • #13818 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I’m beginning to wonder if my admonishment about driver problems with 3172605 is just ancient history.

      If so, man, that makes the speedup patching sooooooo much easier.

    • #13819 Reply

      Canadian Tech
    • #13820 Reply

      iladelf

      So, to clarify things a bit, Woody, is the article you wrote in early November of last year still valid? Every time I’ve performed this on Win 7 computers, it’s fixed the slow update issue (YMMV).

      http://www.infoworld.com/article/3136677/microsoft-windows/how-to-speed-up-windows-7-update-scans-forever.html

    • #13821 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I believe it is – but don’t know for sure. Observations most welcome!

    • #13822 Reply

      Canadian Tech

      The guy most capable of answering this is Volume Z. I hope he will.

    • #13823 Reply

      __philippe

      Just a reminder:

      For intractable cases of the never-ending Win7 “Checking for Updates” issue,
      CanadianTech and fellow bloggers have assembled a detailed procedure to reset the Windows Update process to a clean state.

      CT last resort procedure, which concludes with a manual install of patch KB3172605,
      is resolving this exasperating, long-standing problem, once and for all.

      Procedure details (published October 23,2016):

      https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-update-doesnt-work-even-with-the-solution/1e7c6642-fd2b-4122-a62d-b5dff90b777d

      (One minor nitpick:

      In the sequence of command line instructions, step 11 (pause) can be safely ignored,
      since it would only be useful in a batch script.)

      __philippe

    • #13824 Reply

      Canadian Tech

      Thank you philippe. I will make that change right now.

    • #13825 Reply

      Volume Z

      Thank you. What is the exact question? ๐Ÿ˜€

    • #13826 Reply

      Volume Z

      You only saw something similar then. No triggers for this issue existed in May 2015. Otherwise Dalai would have identified the first one three months earlier than he actually did.

      I myself was able to inplace upgrade and update Windows Vista on May 17, 2015 without an issue. It is known that the update issues of Vista and 7 were caused by the same triggers from Patch Day August 2015 to Patch Day October 2016. If no trigger was around in Vista in May 2015, none was around in Windows 7. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #13827 Reply

      abbodi86

      I know the issue symptoms very well, and i still insist that it first began in May 2015

    • #13828 Reply

      AJ North

      Hello C.T.,

      If I’m reading the post that you linked to correctly, then it appears that TerrySnyderMS did not uninstall KB3172605 and/or KB3161608 before attempting to install the updated driver, which is curious, as the second sentence in the article’s title is, “Please uninstall KB3172605 and/or KB3161608 before installing this driver.”

      Which is precisely what Intel instructs in their support article, “Troubleshoot Issue with Intelยฎ Bluetooth and Microsoft Windows 7* Updates,” (linked in my post, above). Again, this Intel procedure has worked in every Windows 7 machine I have used it on for which Bluetooth had been disabled by the MS update(s).

    • #13829 Reply

      Canadian Tech

      It is an interesting role to play to work on the Answers Forum and here as well. It enables me to link issues. Glad to play that role.

    • #13830 Reply

      Volume Z

      You can’t name a cause or evidence. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #13831 Reply

      messager7777777

      Fyi, during that time around Aug 2016, there was a M$ MVP at answersdotm$dotcom named Gerry McConnell, who just goes around mostly checking on Win 7 users’ Product Keys for piracy when the users seek answers to their updating problems after a clean install of Win 7 SP1.

    • #13832 Reply

      ch100

      ๐Ÿ˜€

      You say “i know how WU works, and i know how to monitor its activity”

      For those who don’t, it doesn’t make any sense, so you might be wasting your time. They are many years behind ๐Ÿ˜€ ๐Ÿ˜€ ๐Ÿ˜€

    • #13833 Reply

      ch100

      Please stop spreading FUD. There is no magic patch, this is just popular speech for workarounds but not solutions.
      There are instead thresholds for supersedence calculations which take certain WU agents beyond their capabilities.

    • #13834 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      ???

    • #13835 Reply

      Canadian Tech

      I can tell you that at least hundreds of thousands of people with Windows 7 systems think KB3172605 is a magic patch. They think so because they applied the patch using the methods prescribed in two different Answers Forum “discussions”, and had what most termed an amazing result.

      They had tried many, many techniques including most of the ones provided by Microsoft and those had not worked. Many even called “Microsoft” technicians who labored for hours for which they paid with no effective result. In many cases, their computers were left in a tangled state. Many re-installed many times thinking that would help. I am certain many even abandoned their computers altogether over the frustration they felt.

      Then they found the KB3172605 and all of a sudden (yes it is sudden) they were getting many updates.

      So, you may be correct in some technical way, but from the ground perspective, it is with out a doubt a “magic” patch.

      I would even venture to say this patch has been applied by likely millions, could even be many millions.

      If you care to spend some time reading through the responses on these two discussions…

      http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-7-update-solution/f39a65fa-9d10-42e7-9bc0-7f5096b36d0c It is 120 pages long, viewed by about 180,000 and has well over 1000 replies.

      Also

      http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-7-update-problems-read-this-first/28147a5f-b0b0-480b-bed9-834a2da7a375

    • #13836 Reply

      abbodi86

      I don’t have any, and don’t need any
      i’m just posting info for knowledge ๐Ÿ™‚

      so, why KB3078601 did not “trigger” the issue for Windows 8.1? why it’s affected many months later?
      and why Windows 10 RTM have the issue now?
      ๐Ÿ˜‰

      it’s all caused by the metadata, not the actual updates or files
      that’s why KB3138612 now works on clean install Windows 7, then it stops after having new updates metadata

    • #13837 Reply

      abbodi86

      I actually admire Volume Z’s efforts to clear the situation and help users at answers.microsoft without spreading non correct info or FUD

    • #13838 Reply

      ch100

      Those interested in understanding this stuff should go over to a much better forum than answers.microsoft.com for the real thing, you know which one ๐Ÿ˜€
      Otherwise they should just take the results from people who already put the effort, as it is not so easy to figure out what is going on behind the scenes.
      And this supersedence stuff was publicised many years ago by Susan Bradley and at least one Microsoft PFE and also discussed by Woody in relation to XP, although XP is a bit different, beyond “that” specialised forum. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #13839 Reply

      ch100

      @Canadian Tech
      KB3172605 and any other patch containing WU Agent updates are not “magic patches”, they are exactly what the description says, fixes for WU Agent.
      The magic patches which I was referring were those which changed every month, updating kernel, graphics components and only acting as speed-up patches just because of eliminating supersedence from calculations.
      Currently the only patch which is worth discussing in the context is KB3172605 and its pre-requisite servicing stack update.
      Even so, some people try to find an infinite number of reasons not install even KB3172605 for various reasons.

    • #13840 Reply

      Volume Z

      If KB3078601 doesn’t trigger the issue in Windows 8.1 (I don’t run 8.1), it’s for the same reason KB3204723 doesn’t trigger it in POSReady2009 while it does in Vista. 8.1 and XP are different from Vista/7.

      Availability of KB3078601 does trigger the issue right now in Windows 7 and started doing so on August 11, 2015. If you insist the issue started in May 2015 – when exactly did it start? Eligibility for which KB triggered it? When and why did it stop triggering the issue when KB3078601 was the only trigger present in August 2015?

      KB3138612 is worse than something that doesn’t work. It’s something that works once.

      When installed combined with KB3078601 and the Monthly Rollup (current standing of Windows 7 magic patches = triggers, assuming MS Office not installed), KB3138612 actually does work. So does every release of the Windows Update Client after June 2015.

      https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/3050265/windows-update-client-for-windows-7-june-2015

      DELL should revise their ineffective, outdated-on-arrival recommendation for KB3138612 ASAP.

      Regards, VZ

    • #13841 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Which forum? No problem advertising other forums… We’re all in this leaky boat together.

    • #13842 Reply

      ch100

      It is obviously MDL. ๐Ÿ˜€

    • #13843 Reply

      ch100

      I did some experimentation a while ago and the results were posted here. However, while the exact date was inconclusive, the period was around that one which you mentioned.
      However this may depend slightly on the hardware utilised by the user experiencing the slow scanning response.

    • #13844 Reply

      ch100

      I can manage Windows Update very well and there are other posters here who not only manage Windows Update well, but explain to others how to do it. Some have even written software in relation to Windows Update going far beyond what you would even imagine that existed.
      But it seems easier for many others to complain rather than to be a “can do” type of person.

    • #13845 Reply

      ch100

      Do you have all updates applied, Important, Recommended and Optional?
      If you don’t, then you don’t have a case.

    • #13846 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ CT & ch ……. Seems like things happened as if M$ had intentionally or inadvertently slowed or broken Windows Update for Win 7, in order to push the users onto Win 8/8.1 n Win 10, eg refusing to release a Win 7 SP2 from 2014 onward that would hv speeded up updating for a clean install n likely also ignoring updating problems.
      ……. It is like a Doctor Death using malpractices/mistreatments to financially benefit from their patients n families or patients’ insurance payouts.
      .
      Whatever supersedence that M$’s KB updates hv, they should be compatible with antecedent or superseded updates, IOW, there should be backward-compatibility between updates. A supersedent update should not slow or break a Win 7 cptr that has the antecedent or superseded update.
      ……. Like I said b4, other OS do not hv this kind of updating problems.
      .
      Seems, a few M$-apologist posters here hv a lot of head knowledge but no heart knowledge.

    • #13847 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I kinda guessed. Don’t hesitate to recommend them, or link to them. Great site, good people, a little off-the-wall, which I like.

    • #13848 Reply

      Volume Z

      ch100,

      you never have all updates applied. “All” is a very simple word with a very difficult meaning.

      Show me an “Installed Updates” list with ALL updates installed and I’m going to prove the issue will still take effect.

      It’s due to an incorrect perception of this issue you make this suggestion. Answer me one thing: Why am I able to make Windows Update work regularly in a fresh Vista installation by installing only four updates, if no less than EVERY UPDATE AVAILABLE is required?

      Regards, VZ

    • #13849 Reply

      ch100

      It is as simple as if you don’t follow the manufacturer’s instructions, you are on your own.

    • #13850 Reply

      abbodi86

      @Volume Z

      i can’t tell the exact date, because my daily main OS is Windows 8.1, i only start Windows one or two in the month to check updates
      and i was not interesting to investigate the issue at that time, just thought it was temporary

      i noticed it on the same day when “Windows 10 Technical Preview” was pushed for Windows 7 through Windows Update
      so the trigger is definitely KB2990214

      apparenly, the issue started to grow until it reached the tipping point in August 2015
      for Windows 8.1, it took more months to reach it

    • #13851 Reply

      Volume Z

      You’re not answering my question, and the manufacturer doesn’t request you install every update available.

      Regards, VZ

    • #13852 Reply

      Volume Z

      @abbodi86:

      I’m sorry, but KB2990214 is an Update Client. A trigger is an update that poses problems to Update Clients. Also, KB2990214 has been superseded numerous times. As a general rule every successor of a triggering update will be triggering itself, but no successor of KB2990214 is a trigger.

      There is no way KB2990214 could have been a trigger of the ongoing general update issue. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #13853 Reply

      ch100

      @abbodi86
      I might contradict you here without proper evidence, but while this is a popular idea that somehow the slow scanning issue is related to Windows 10 upgrade, there is no relation whatsoever between the two, it is just a coincidence and the concept is fuelled by the Windows 10 conspiracy theories all over the internet.
      The slow scanning is only related to exceeding the capabilities built-in 7.6.7601.320 (and later agents before October 2015 I think) when a certain number of updates and their supersedence relationships has been reached and it may be related to the amount of memory in the system and the CPU capabilities.
      Early versions of the agent reached quickly 2 GB of RAM used for svchost.exe and for systems with 2-3 GB of RAM, in particular those running 32-bit versions of Windows 7, this was quickly becoming a limitation.

    • #13854 Reply

      ch100

      One example:

      https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/windowsitpro/2016/08/15/further-simplifying-servicing-model-for-windows-7-and-windows-8-1/

      Nathan Mercer
      August 26, 2016 at 8:45 am

      the rollup patch is a single patch, it installs and uninstalls as a single patch. If you donโ€™t want to apply security or monthly rollup you donโ€™t have to, but Microsoft recommends installing all recommended updates. So that includes both security updates and any non-security updates that are marked as recommended in Windows Update.

      And if you know better, then it is not my mission to convince you and others who think the same of anything.

    • #13855 Reply

      Canadian Tech

      I feel like I must reply ch100. The problem of selective updating in my case only started when Microsoft started sending all kinds of undesirable stuff in the disguise of Windows 7 updates which were in fact Windows 10 stuff. That is the first time I ever recommended selectivity. It was Microsoft dishonesty and loss of integrity that started this mess. Then they multiplied it by creating the Windows Update scourge.

    • #13856 Reply

      ch100

      @CT You see, I don’t have a problem with those who have a good understanding of this subject and you know very well who they are among those who post frequently here. They are able to make a good judgement according to situation and to select which updates are good for them (and their clients if this is the case). Even if the original judgement may be erroneous, the same expert posters would be able to take corrective action if and when required, or when the previous context has changed, like the previous and hopefully the last push for GWX.
      But there are far too many posters who try to find every reason to have their machines not working and their next reaction is to blame anyone else but themselves.

    • #13857 Reply

      Canadian Tech

      I don’t believe there are many who “find every reason to have their machines not working and their next reaction is to blame anyone else but themselves”. There are a fes and I have run across them. However, the vast majority of the type of people you are referring to got themselves into a mess by messing around with things they knew little to nothing about. This happens out of foolishness, rather than intent.

      For example, if I find Ccleaner installed on a client computer, I remove it. Ccleaner can be a very handy thing in the hands of someone who understands what they are doing. But Ccleaner exists on far to many machines. The person that does not understand well, can turn their system into jello quite quickly.

    • #13858 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ ch100 ……. U said, …”It is as simple as if you donโ€™t follow the manufacturerโ€™s instructions, you are on your own.”
      .
      Problem is, there r manufacturers who issue faulty components/products, eg Takata airbags, Toyota gas pedals, VW diesel engines, Reckitt Benckinser air humidifier cleaner, Chemie Grunenthal thalidomide, etc. Sometimes, the manufacturers inadvertently “instructed” their users to be killed, all in the name of profits.

    • #13859 Reply

      Volume Z

      You still haven’t explained why Windows Update can be converted from dysfunctional to functional in Windows Vista by installing only four updates.

      That’s although you claim to know the truth about this issue in any operating system.

      Regards, VZ

    • #13860 Reply

      ch100

      @Volume Z
      I think that @abbodi86 tries to say that the WU agent released as KB2990214 was even worse than the preceding agent 7.6.7601.320.
      Maybe @abbodi86 should clarify as this is of general interest.

    • #13861 Reply

      abbodi86

      I actually ment that upgrade metadata delivered with it triggered the issue
      but that’s just a wild guess, since Vista don’t receive that metadtada

      howver, i stand still
      the known scan issue i first experienced it in May 2015 ๐Ÿ˜€

    • #13862 Reply

      ch100

      Thanks ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #13863 Reply

      ch100

      @abbodi86
      I was trying to reproduce your results, but I cannot find any blame for KB2990214.
      The first patch failing and failing beyond recovery was KB3058515, which is an IE patch.
      If there is one WU Agent patch candidate to be blamed for slow scanning, this is the next one from KB2990214, i.e. KB3050265, but my results are far from being definitive.
      The web site at http://www.potentengineer.com/windows-update-agent-build-numbers-for-windows-7/ is providing a history of WU Agents for Windows 7 and their versions.
      I would say that this is old news by now and the only reasonable advice which seems to be shared by everyone here with good technical understanding is to install the pair KB3020369/KB3172605 as a minimum condition to resolve all known WU issues.

    • #13864 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ abbodi86 & ch100 ……. Volume Z is likely correct that the slow Windows Update scanning of a clean installed Win 7 SP1 began around Aug 2015, as evidenced by a timed Google Search …
      https://www.google.com/search?q=windows+update+7+slow+scanning&biw=1278&bih=904&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F2015%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F2015&tbm=#tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_min:1%2F1%2F2015%2Ccd_max:12%2F31%2F2015&q=clean+install+%26+windows+update+7+slow+scanning

    • #13865 Reply

      abbodi86

      There is no particular WU Agent patch that trigger the issue, it’s all in the metadata of WU
      i just mentioned KB2990214 because it was the first upgrade facilitator, thus the upgrade metadata came with it, but it’s not the patch itself that caused it

      i know that list and i contributed in it a little bit ๐Ÿ˜€
      http://marc.info/?l=patchmanagement&m=147768478300704&w=2

    • #13866 Reply

      Volume Z

      Breaking News. Microsoft has fixed the issue. The pressing need for Update Client version 7.6.7601.23453 is gone. Announces Karthikeyan Kesavan:

      “This has been fixed and it should take less than 30 minutes now.”

      https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-update-problem-scanning-for-20-hoursand/6fe94dea-f1a3-43c7-b91b-472ed2ffad06

      Regards, VZ

    • #13867 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I wonder if that’s a reliable report???

    • #13868 Reply

      abbodi86

      That would be nice, time to do a test ๐Ÿ™‚
      is Vista fixed too?

      although i see 30 minutes is still long, normal clean install with WUC 7.6.7601.23453 would take just < 15 minutes to build DataStore.edb and show updates

    • #13869 Reply

      Volume Z

      Vista remains unfixed… ๐Ÿ™

    • #13870 Reply

      ch100

      @abbodi86
      I think that there is no intended relation to the upgrade and this is probably where there is a misunderstanding and our replies seem to contradict each other, while in fact they don’t.
      If I understand correctly, you say that the broken behaviour happened during that exact time as a side effect of trying to keep Win 7 updating working plus the upgrade functionality introduced first with KB2990214. And around that time due to the additional complexity it all got broken.
      Re Volume Z post, that KB3172605 may no longer be needed, I noticed during my simulating testing yesterday that 7.6.7601.320 was actually behaving well until at least about July 2015 (I suspended testing shortly after, but I intend to continue testing from that point today), KB2990214 was the same but something was broken either by the IE 11 CU patch which I have already mentioned or by the next WU agent after KB2990214.
      KB3172605 may only be needed in such a situation to fix one of the previous broken agents including the better one from KB3138612, while if none of the broken agents is installed, then KB3172605 is not needed.
      But from a practical point of view, regardless of what Microsoft has been fixing on their side by expiring the latest big batch of updates, there is no point in avoiding KB3172605 and that advice should still stay.

    • #13871 Reply

      ch100

      @abbodi86
      “i know that list and i contributed in it a little bit ?
      http://marc.info/?l=patchmanagement&m=147768478300704&w=2

      The reference to Daniel Ratliff’s site was not for you, but for everyone else here, including me ๐Ÿ˜€

    • #13872 Reply

      ch100

      I suppose you know about this article.
      https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/configurationmgr/2015/04/15/support-tip-configmgr-2012-update-scan-fails-and-causes-incorrect-compliance-status/
      It took them another year to provide the complete fix, KB3172605, because all the other fixes were only partial.
      It is interesting that I was already applying what they say about WSUS and declining superseded updates, so I have never encountered the issue until I read it on AskWoody and started experimenting.
      This is why sometimes I am getting annoyed when people insist even today about magic patches or even worse, conspiracies related to Windows 10 upgrade.

    • #13873 Reply

      Canadian Tech

      ch100, I think what you are saying is the windows update disaster that befell Windows 7 and 8 was the result of rank incompetence, rather than malicious intent.

    • #13874 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      That certainly seems to be the case – along with a bit of not-so-benign neglect.

      I repeat a back-of-the-envelope calculation I made earlier (which has since been shown to be completely off the wall), but I bet there was enough electricity wasted on Win7 Update scans to power a small city.

    • #13875 Reply

      ch100

      @CT Yes!

    • #13876 Reply

      messager7777777

      @ CT & ch ……. I put it as likely greedy intent AND rank incompetence of M$$$$.

    • #13877 Reply

      Volume Z

      The fun starts if you actually go to support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3138612 and attempt to download the standalone installer. Microsoft broke the links. ๐Ÿ˜€

    • #13878 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Oy.

    • #13879 Reply

      Anonymous

      Fake news. It is working very well here.

    • #13880 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I clicked on the link to http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=7d72781f-e4ae-41c6-bbba-9b845db33b2a

      My browser says “Connecting” after many minutes of waiting.

      OOPS. It just connected, and I can download the file. Looks like it’s working out here, too.

    • #13881 Reply

      Volume Z

      So they fixed it. ๐Ÿ™‚

      “Changed download links because Microsoft changed something and broke the links to the Download Center in the process”

      http://wu.krelay.de/en/

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

    Reply To: The last word on the Win7 Update scan speedup problem

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