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  • July 11 security-only patch KB4025337 causes BSOD

    Posted on July 13th, 2017 at 06:40 PKCano Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Poster @skunk1966 reports

    I just installed KB 4025337 for Windos 7 (x64). After rebooting my system I got BSOD. Started up in safemode and ran sfc /scannow. Rebooted in normal mode and again BSOD.

    In the end I couldn’t fix it so uninstalled KB 4025337 using wusa cmd. Rebooted in normal mode and all is fine again,

    The computer, running Win7 Ultimate has an older Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 (Yorkfield) and ATI AMD Radeon HD6450 graphics.

    Is anybody else seeing problems with the July 11 Security-only patch for Windows 7?

    If that helped, take a second to support AskWoody on Patreon

    Home Forums July 11 security-only patch KB4025337 causes BSOD

    This topic contains 83 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by  Skunk1966 2 months, 2 weeks ago.

    • Author
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    • #124713 Reply

      PKCano
      AskWoody MVP

      Poster @skunk1966 reports I just installed KB 4025337 for Windos 7 (x64). After rebooting my system I got BSOD. Started up in safemode and ran sfc /sc
      [See the full post at: July 11 security-only patch KB4025337 causes BSOD]

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #124719 Reply

      anonymous

      thanks for taking one for the team ;-).   hopefully this issue will get resolved quickly.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #124720 Reply

      anonymous

      The fact that the poster initially mentioned the Win 8.1 update makes me wonder, because if I look at the page, it actually links to the Win 8.1 update from June (4022717). Wonder if that’s the only mixup…

      • #124727 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        In the posts following the one linked we verified that he was meant KB4025337, and not the Win8.1 patch. Notice strike-over on the wrong one.

        • #124729 Reply

          anonymous

          Did notice, but was wondering if there was a mixup in the files too. I just notified support on chat about the wrong link and asked to have the Win 7 32-bit (as that’s what I’m using) file verified, providing name, size and SHA256 hash, and was told developers were notified of the wrong link and the file is the correct one, but no idea how much chat support can be trusted with anything. Link’s still wrong as of this moment.
          Didn’t install it myself. Was actually about to, checked one more time here to see if anything new popped up, after seeing a couple of messages on the main post yesterday saying it went ok, but now saw this and… Eek.

          • #124735 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            The file he reported using was:
            windows6.1-kb4025337-x64_c013b7fcf3486a0f71c4f58fc361bfdb715c4e94.msu

            That is the correct KB and the correct bitedness.

          • #124794 Reply

            ryegrass
            AskWoody Lounger

            I’ve had it (KB4025337) installed for 2 days with no problems. Windows 7 x 64 Pro, I7-2600K processor.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #124728 Reply

      anonymous

      So does the Windows 8.1 version of the update also cause a blue screen of death?

      • #124732 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        Mention of the Win8.1 patch in the original post was a typo. User has Win7. There is not information on Win8.1

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #124743 Reply

      Noel Carboni
      AskWoody MVP

      Just two more data points:

      No problems here so far on two Win 7 Ultimate x64 systems onto which I installed only KB4025337 and KB4025252 yesterday and the day before.

      One is a VM on my workstation, and one is a Dell PowerEdge T20 hardware system running a dual core Pentium G3220 and the onboard Intel GPU (i.e. no graphics card).

      -Noel

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #124742 Reply

      anonymous

      No problem with that or any of the July 2017 MS patches since I installed them yesterday afternoon on two PCs.

      1.  Lenovo B570 laptop with an Intel B950 cpu, onboard graphics, Windows 7 Professional-64.

      2.  Home-built desktop with Intel core i5-3570K, onboard graphics, Windows 7 Ultimate-64.

      Mike

    • #124746 Reply

      MrJimPhelps
      AskWoody MVP

      My Windows 7 PC is about a year old. I have W7 Pro 64-bit.

      July 13, 2017: Yesterday evening several updates automatically installed — I am completely up-to-date on all of the “important” Windows and Office updates. I haven’t verified if KB4025337 was among the updates I installed, but I installed everything that Windows had in the queue, so I’m sure it was.

      I used the PC extensively last night after installing the updates. So far, so good.

      July 14, 2017: More updates automatically installed last night. The only negative effect I saw, which sometimes happens after updates are installed, is that when the computer rebooted after the updates were installed, it froze when it got to the Windows 7 splash screen. I powered down then up after that happened, and everything was fine after that. This behavior happened both on the 12th and the 13th after the updates were installed.

    • #124747 Reply

      anonymous

      I wonder if this bug applies also to the Montlhy Rollup, or is restricted to the Security-Only KB…

      • #124750 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        The only known problem is with KB4025337 on one machine (so far). It may not be a “bug,” but a problem with the individual PC. That is what we are trying to establish here, if anybody else is experiencing the problem.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #124748 Reply

      anonymous

      Sec-only and IE update have been released 5h ago to about 50 Win7 installations. No issues have been reported so far.

    • #124755 Reply

      anonymous

      Gah, lost the message, didn’t send for some reason. (Anonymous wondering about potential mixups here again.)

      Took the plunge as well in the end, installed the security-only patch (32-bit in my case), had installed the IE one Tuesday already, no issues so far.

      On another note, have Comodo Firewall 8.4 (so no Secure Shopping), HIPS enabled, detect shellcode injections enabled. No black screen on startup, and so far no browser crashes, though admittedly I just visited a few pages. Was worried that the reported Win 10 issue also appeared on 7, and if the black screen was unlikely due to the Comodo version, as it was apparently caused by Secure Shopping blocking explorer.exe and that’s only also bundled with the FW in v10, not also v8, the potential browser crashes remained a concern.

    • #124758 Reply

      anonymous

      As to the issue when looking for the Win 7 update KB4025337, and the link taking one, instead, to the page with that for 8.1:

      If this is still happening, then, once landed on the 8.1 page, type in the correct KB number in the little search window in that page (near the upper right corner)  and hit return. That will take you to the correct page with the Win 7 update.

      • #124764 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        The file used was
        windows6.1-kb4025337-x64_c013b7fcf3486a0f71c4f58fc361bfdb715c4e94.msu

    • #124766 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody Lounger

      @skunk1966 mentioned that he has an Intel Core 2 Quad CPU and ATI AMD Radeon HD6450 graphics.
      Did he install the latest drivers for the HD6450 graphics card on his Win7 computer when he experienced the BSOD problem?

      • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  EP.
      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #124780 Reply

        Skunk1966
        AskWoody Lounger

        AMD Radeon HD 6450 driver version is 15.300.1025.0

        This is as far as I can tell the latest version

    • #124771 Reply

      anonymous

      Not sure what the point of this answer to my posting might be.

      It is enough to type in “KB4025337”.

      Hope this is not necessary anymore, but if the glitch has not been fixed yet, that will do it.

      Edit to remove HTML

    • #124786 Reply

      ViperJohn
      AskWoody Lounger

      The only known problem is with KB4025337 on one machine (so far). It may not be a “bug,” but a problem with the individual PC. That is what we are trying to establish here, if anybody else is experiencing the problem.

      Installed

      KB4025337 Security Only Quality Update
      and
      KB4025252 Cumulative Security Update for Internet Explorer 11

      on four systems:

      1X – Windows 7 HP x64
      1X – Windows 7 Pro x64
      2X – Windows 7 Pro x86

      All systems running normally with no issues.

      On another note Windows XP got ten KB updates this month including (1) IE8 Sec Update and (1) Time Zone Update.

      Viper

      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #124789 Reply

      Geo
      AskWoody Lounger

      If he has Win 7 X64 he needs patch KB4025341 for his system.

      • #124791 Reply

        Skunk1966
        AskWoody Lounger

        no I don’t. I don’t want the quality rollup updates but only security updates

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #124937 Reply

        anonymous

        Unless he is in  Group “B” which would go against what it stands for

    • #124788 Reply

      anonymous

      He mentions he has Win 7  X64.  I have Win 7 X64 but my number is different.  My number is KB4025341.  Group A. No problem so far.   AMD Sempron.

      • #124793 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        KB4025341 is the monthly Rollup. He is using security-only updates

    • #124795 Reply

      anonymous

      I have the same BSOD on my computer. MS is getting worse and worse with their updates. MS needs to bring Bill Gates back ASAP. At least with him, there were less problems.

      • #124799 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        Did you use the security-only July update or the Rollup?
        Could you give us some information about your computer – version of Win7, mfg, model, processor, graphics card?

        4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #124819 Reply

      anonymous

      @ Skunk1966
      I also have a Radeon 6450, along with the Catalyst package. My driver is 15.200.1062.0 It was the last non-beta driver release I am aware of. Was your driver a beta version? I have yet to install any of the updates and my system is AMD (Phenom II 1050T), so I can’t replicate your problem regardless. I did wonder if reverting to an earlier driver might solve the problem.
      Ed

      • #124903 Reply

        Skunk1966
        AskWoody Lounger

        it’s a AMD Software Crimson Edition Beta driver and never gave me any problems untill installing KB 4025337

      • #125186 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        This received from @skunk1966 on 7/17

        `-tried driver version v.15.200.1052.0

        result after installing update and reboot: BSOD

        -tried driver version 15.201.1701.0

        result after installing update and reboot: BSOD

        -tried the driver that came with the graphics card which is very old (v8.9)

        result after installing update and reboot: BSOD

        -checked for newer chipset: I already have the latest chipset

        These results make me think that MS created this update to force Windows users buying new hardware

    • #124841 Reply

      Sessh
      AskWoody Lounger

      What exactly did the BSOD say? What error code? Was a specific file/driver specified? If this information was already supplied somewhere and I missed it, my bad.

      Also, I encourage all these anonymous posters to make an account here on AskWoody.com. It gets kind of confusing when several such posters are involved in a discussion and even harder when trying to have/follow a conversation with one at times. Use a fake email if you want, but do create an account! 🙂

      9 users thanked author for this post.
      • #124845 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION 0x0000003b
        KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED 0x0000001e

        • #124854 Reply

          satrow
          AskWoody MVP

          From carrona.org: http://carrona.org/bsodindx.html#1

          STOP 0x0000003B: SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION
          Usual causes: System service, Device driver, graphics driver, ?memory

          STOP 0x0000001E: KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED
          Usual causes: Device driver, hardware, System service, compatibility, Remote control programs, memory, BIOS

          So most likely a driver or Service; generally, 3rd party drivers/filters are the most common cause of BSODs by quite a margin, even those you thought you’d uninstalled already! Look for very old and the latest, DriverView by Nir Sofer is useful for narrowing them down (View > Hide Microsoft drivers): http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/driverview.html (though his BlueScreenView might directly flag the offending 3rd party driver).

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #124970 Reply

            ch100
            AskWoody MVP

            Excellent tool this DriverView, like most if not all tools from NirSoft. Being so powerful, they should be used only after understanding in full the requirements and the developer’s instructions.
            The NirSoft utilities are very good additions to the Mark Russinovich’s Sysinternals tools, released under the Microsoft brand for the last few years.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #124870 Reply

      anonymous

      I have a system with a similar configuration ( Windows 7 64 bit on a AMD Radeon HD 6320 and a AMD Dual-Core E450) and haven’t experienced any difficulties. Hopefully that continues.

    • #124877 Reply

      anonymous

      No issue at all (I3 Win7 Home)

    • #124882 Reply

      anonymous

      Hi everybody,

      I have seen BSOD too, I found this mention later, so I am not able to provide more details (PC reinstalled). What is funny, this has happened in PC, which I use to “testing Group B” ideas.

      Old one, C2D CPU, some dedicated VGA (nvidia geforce), Win7 32bit, KB4025337 + KB4025252 installed and …. BSODed. After fresh install (exact GroupB case), I just needed to copy some files to my TrueCrypted hdd, before OS deleted, so I connected external HDD, mount it to TC, copy some files and click restart. I saw some error dialog box shortly before reboot.  Then, BSOD, starting repair, BSOD, repair, then booted and frozen quite badly (Win cannot contact Group policy service error message + frozen). Maybe I should dismount TC disk before, but TCed HDD never done that so badly.

      Overall, not sure, if it is this July-BSOD-case, just reporting…

    • #124897 Reply

      Mike In Texas
      AskWoody Lounger

      I’ve had it (KB4025337) installed for 2 days with no problems. Windows 7 x 64 Pro, I7-2600K processor.

      Same here. No problems
      Windows 7 x64 Ultimate
      Intel Core I-7 6700

      As always did 2 offline disk backups prior to installing Security Only upgrades.

      Mike

      Mike In Texas

    • #124902 Reply

      NetDef
      AskWoody Lounger

      We rolled this out to a test group last night and had six out of 30 workstations BSOD on reboot.  They were all older systems and they all matched.  After a rollback (painful) we installed updated drivers for the Intel Chipset, re-installed the MS Updates and no problems.

      The workstations that crashed were identical:  HP Z420 with the Intel C600 chipset with Xeon processors.

      The newest x64 Windows 7 Intel Chipset update was the actual fix.

      6 users thanked author for this post.
    • #124910 Reply

      anonymous

      Apart from the graphics card (nvidia geforce) which I bought a couple of months ago, my PC is 10 years old with an Intel Core2 Duo CPU, Windows 7 x64 Ultimate.

      Ten days ago (i.e., before patch Tuesday), I had a BSOD with the error code SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION 0x0000003b during shut down. It was on my plans to reinstall windows from scratch in any case, so I made a disk format and a fresh install with all the updates excluding known telemetry ones. I have decided to stay in Group B side, so all security-only and IE cumulative patches are also installed.

      Suprisingly, yesterday the same BSOD appeared during working (not shuting down as the previous one), but this was BEFORE installing the recent patches. Then, I used chkdsk and sfc/scannow with no errors and I installed both KB4025337 and KB4025252, with no problems up to now. Generally, the PC is working smoothly and fine.

      I suspect that this BSOD has to do somehow with a failing hardware….

      Sorry for the rather long post
      Tryfon

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #124915 Reply

      kondoril
      AskWoody Lounger

      Hi

      Same here, Win 7 KB 4025341 – BSOD
      Several times. Had to restore previous session.
      Tried several times. Same BSOD
      Tried KB 4025337 which is only the security. SAME BSOD.
      Uninstalled via safe mode

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #124926 Reply

      anonymous

      So can we say this is related to particularly old Intel CPUs and/or chipsets and drivers? Or only to the old drivers for said old chipsets?

      • #124928 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        It would seem, at this point, that some changes in the July patches for Win7 are conflicting with some older driver(s). What the exact nature of the conflict is, is not yet determined.
        The patches themselves don’t seem to be “buggy,” but the changes made are causing hardware-related problems for some users.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #124951 Reply

      Microfix
      AskWoody Lounger

      Do any of the posters who have BSOD’s have the Microsoft WU drivers installed or are they all proprietary drivers from manufacturers?

      [edit] by this I mean any WU drivers (check your installed patches in CP)

      Something sounds fishy here that reminds me of something a few years back..just sayin

      | 2 PC W8.1 Pro x64 | | 2 PC Linux Hybrids x64 | | 1 PC Windows XP Pro x86 (offline) |
        No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
      • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Microfix. Reason: any WU drivers
      • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Microfix.
      • #124954 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        So far, I think what’s been posted are not MS drivers. There is mention of AMD graphics and Intel chipset. In a while, I’m thinking of posting a dragnet to see if we can pinpoint what’s causing the problem. We have too little data at this point, other than figuring that some changes made by the updates have caused aa conflict. Don’t think it’s “buggy” patches as too many people have had success installing them.

        You have any input?

        • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  PKCano.
        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #124985 Reply

          Noel Carboni
          AskWoody MVP

          A data point:

          My hardware system running Windows 7, which did not BSOD:

          • Haswell Pentium G3220 (no chipset drivers installed since mid 2015)
          • On-chip GPU, driver 10.18.14.4332 (a year+ out of date)

          These are the drivers newer than 2015:

          ScreenGrab_SVN_2017_07_14_231808

          -Noel

          Attachments:
          You must be logged in to view attached files.
          • #125022 Reply

            Microfix
            AskWoody Lounger

            After installing earlier than scheduled (pre MS-DEFCON 3) Our hardware system running Windows 7 Pro x64 (Group B), which has not displayed a BSOD:

            Patches installed  2017/07/15: kb4025337 and kb4025252

            Haswell Pentium G3258 CPU – 8 Series C220 intel chipset drivers date 2015/10/28 ver: 10.1.1.13

            Nvidia Ge-Force 440GT GPU – Device driver date 2017/05/01 ver: 22.21.13.8205

            | 2 PC W8.1 Pro x64 | | 2 PC Linux Hybrids x64 | | 1 PC Windows XP Pro x86 (offline) |
              No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
      • #124957 Reply

        Skunk1966
        AskWoody Lounger

        I always get my drivers from the manufacturers; never through WU

        5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #124958 Reply

          PKCano
          AskWoody MVP

          Yes, that’s what my reply implies. There is so far no info on anyone using MS drivers.

          • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  PKCano.
        • #124960 Reply

          Microfix
          AskWoody Lounger

          @ Skunk1966: Same here, best way to avoid issues.

           

          | 2 PC W8.1 Pro x64 | | 2 PC Linux Hybrids x64 | | 1 PC Windows XP Pro x86 (offline) |
            No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #124961 Reply

      Microfix
      AskWoody Lounger

      @pkcano: I’m thinking subsystem drivers for chipsets although MS issued updates a few months back for intel chipsets/bluetooth etc but, as it happens, Skunk1966 has now erradicated that theory.

      I can’t quite remember but, few years back MS screwed up drivers which led to BSOD’s on XP IIRC which is why we never use WU drivers either.

      | 2 PC W8.1 Pro x64 | | 2 PC Linux Hybrids x64 | | 1 PC Windows XP Pro x86 (offline) |
        No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
      • #124962 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        Notice the one post where updating the Intel chipset fixed the problem.

        • #124963 Reply

          Microfix
          AskWoody Lounger

          Indeed I did by NetDef, but have others done that as a solution, which may point to subsytem drivers.

          | 2 PC W8.1 Pro x64 | | 2 PC Linux Hybrids x64 | | 1 PC Windows XP Pro x86 (offline) |
            No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
          • #124964 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            No data yet. Can’t answer that.

      • #124969 Reply

        ch100
        AskWoody MVP

        I addressed this issue many times in the past and I will not explain it again. Regular readers are familiar with the theory related to the HardwareID.
        Microsoft release sometimes unsuitable drivers like any other updates which may be buggy. In general, this is corrected and what is left behind after a while are good patches, including driver patches.
        If the drivers are assessed as suitable before installing, the drivers released by Microsoft and which are later releases than the computer manufacturer’s drivers are the best available. The drivers from the card manufacturer are rarely suitable, although the Intel drivers in general are suitable. The generic drivers from other manufacturers are more often not suitable and this is clearly stated on their web sites.
        After so many years, those interested in using computers productively should realise that people reporting problems here are exactly those who act emotionally and with little understanding of the issues involved. Those reporting problems are mostly those following the “Group B”, which was an artificial concept created by Woody back in September/October 2016 when there was still a lot of confusion about the patching model, those not installing “telemetry” patches, those not installing drivers from Microsoft, those using third-party “security” suites and the list goes on.

        • #124990 Reply

          Noel Carboni
          AskWoody MVP

          You make a valid point that systems are more likely to have the parts all work together if they match Microsoft’s builds. At least that was valid until Microsoft’s capabilities to create good, solid software then test it thoroughly dropped. Now there are new factors at play.

          Some of us following a Group A strategy up to a few years ago, then switching to a Group B strategy with our Windows 7 systems are having no problems at all.

          ScreenGrab_SVN_2017_07_14_233933

          I think it really boils down to “some people are going to have problems” no matter what strategy they choose. It’s not about the people, it’s about the many intricate details of what makes up a computer system.

          By the way, as a graphics software developer I can say with authority that it’s almost always better to get display drivers directly from the GPU manufacturer than through Windows Update. Just this morning I solved a problem for a Windows 10 v1703 user experiencing poor OpenGL performance after upgrading to “Creator’s” by advising his going to the Intel web site and getting their latest release. Here’s the response he sent me this very afternoon:

          Dear Noel.
          Your suggestions have been successful.
          I fixed the problem updating my system’s display driver (the second al point 1.).
          Thank You very much!
          Best, G

          The idea behind WHQL approval is nice, but unfortunately history has shown that the results in practice differ from the ideal. Again, the devil is in the details, and try as they might, no one can possibly get the details right every time with a system as complex as Windows, especially where 3rd party software integrates in so tightly.

          And I hate to say it, but Microsoft’s allergy to documentation has grown lately (reference the ever decreasing amount of information we get about updates, for example). The ability for 3rd parties to integrate with Windows is not going to get any better because of that. Let’s see, Microsoft themselves want to become the hardware vendor… Sense any conflicts of interest here?

          -Noel

          Attachments:
          You must be logged in to view attached files.
          8 users thanked author for this post.
          • #125003 Reply

            ch100
            AskWoody MVP

            Noel, you know very well that my post is not addressed to users like you who are a “giver” on the forum and are able to get out of trouble yourself if this is to happen and I am sure that it happens a lot during your specific configuration tuning. My post is for the regular non-technical users who take random advice anywhere on the internet based on feelings rather than knowledge and when getting in trouble and told how things work, tend to become offensive but with less functional computers at the same time. It is one of the diseases of the modern society with most people trained to be net consumers and not creators. They are the “entitled” ones. This is another form of living on debt, which common sense says that it cannot last forever, but a lot of common sense has been already lost. Many of them have been operating exactly one computer at a time during their experience with IT and… you know, they know better than experienced developers, testers, other IT experts working for billion dollars companies.
            Graphics software is a different category and you know very well the differences between general use “office” drivers and specialised functionality drivers requiring full 3D functionality.

            • #125005 Reply

              Skunk1966
              AskWoody Lounger

              are you saying that people like myself (who you don’t know and know nothing about) and report a problem caused by a MS update are all “regular non-technical users who take random advice anywhere on the internet based on feelings rather than knowledge”?

              Just because I report a problem doesn’t mean that I don’t know how to solve problems in Windows! I help lots of people with problems in Windows and have been doing this for over 15 years and just because I’m in Group B (for all the known reasons!) doesn’t mean I’m a regular pc user.

              ps: I’m not getting emotional about this at all

              • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Skunk1966.
              7 users thanked author for this post.
            • #125019 Reply

              Jan K.
              AskWoody Lounger

              ch100, I respect your insight, knowledge and willingness to share with us, but sometimes…

              I have a friend, who has handed over his Windows 10 software management entirely to Microsoft and is per today left with a machine with BSOD, rendered useless by Microsoft and can’t get any work done…

              Any words to him where he did go wrong, ch100?

              5 users thanked author for this post.
            • #125274 Reply

              anonymous

              I have a situation as where I have just bought this HP laptop with Win10 already factory installed, (tried to get Win7 or last option 8.1) and have a WiFi plan of 3Gb per month. This equates to 100Mb per day, on average. Now when everytime I start my Wifi and try to use the internet the laptop is deluged by a download of great magnitude that after about 5 mins or less I have used my daily allocation without even getting to open the browser. This is happening everytime I start my Wifi. I have to cut it off as I am blowing my internet browsing usage allocation with something that I think M$ is downloading to update my system. The laptop has become a doorstopper (or piece of useless furniture) as I cannot use it without going onto the net and getting blown over my daily usage target. This is what really gets stuck in my craw, I am not getting access to the internet in my browser quickly to even do a quick thing, as the laptop is by virtue of the download is having the life sucked out of it. Next laptop will NOT have Win10 on it and I hope to have this laptop reinstalled with a more useful serviceable  O/S very soon. I hope HP reads this as they are not going to be my preferred laptop supplier in the future if all their items come with Win10 pre installed. I am not paying for a licence for an O/s that in my case,  is useless as the proverbial mammaries on a bull. Win10 sucks!!!!!

            • #125104 Reply

              Noel Carboni
              AskWoody MVP

              Doggone it, I was trying not to be confrontational. I’m sorry if you took it that way, but please don’t be upset if not everyone shares your point of view.

              I am personally adamant that people in general are not stupid, and that when given the right information they can make good decisions for themselves. And with good computing environments maintained through those good decisions, they can be more productive and happier.

              I figure it like this: If someone screws up their computer by doing something without understanding it, they can either 1) give up and let someone else take over, or 2) they can learn from the mistake and try to do it better next time.

              And I’m sorry if this insults those at Microsoft, but letting Microsoft govern system setup and maintenance hasn’t been a good idea, well, really ever.

              They had genius level (*cough* Dave Cutler *cough*) design architecture yet somehow have never managed to set it up to be a very good system out of the box.

              Here’s the key: There’s NOTHING that makes them better at doing that today than ever before. From where I stand the ONLY way to get a good experience is to teach yourself to do it better, making the best decisions for you based on the best information available. Here we have the Internet so we can share info about what works. That’s what I try to do.

              Somehow those “in the know” can figure out from all the information on the web what’s hype/chaff, and what’s real information. That really means that with a bit of thought anyone can do it. No one here is any better than anyone else; some just have different experience.

              -Noel

              3 users thanked author for this post.
            • #125105 Reply

              ch100
              AskWoody MVP

              when given the right information

        • #125007 Reply

          woody
          Da Boss

          After so many years, those interested in using computers productively should realise that people reporting problems here are exactly those who act emotionally and with little understanding of the issues involved.

          While it’s clear that many of the reports on AskWoody are from people who don’t understand the nuances but need help anyway, it’s also clear (to me anyway) that the reports are valuable to people who are trying to understand what the $#@! is going on.

          What bothers me is when discussion of problems and their solutions turns into a war of personalities. If we can stick to addressing the problems and ignore the inevitable conflict of personalities, everyone wins.

          14 users thanked author for this post.
          • #125047 Reply

            Sessh
            AskWoody Lounger

            Yeah and this is really the bottom line. People come here to learn and try to figure things out and that is the first step towards knowing more about your PC and therefore being able to better understand how it works, take control of it back from Microsoft and take the power in your own hands. This is a very rewarding thing in any facet of life IMO.

            The problem comes in when those same people that come here trying to learn are “talked down” to by people who perceive themselves as being more experienced than they are and maybe they are more experienced, but no one likes to be insulted especially when they come here in a vulnerable state as far as not knowing much and wanting to expand what they know. That’s really where the issues begin for me.

            The topic of this thread affects both the Security-Only update and the Monthly Rollup meaning both Group A and Group B users would be equally vulnerable to this and yet, an attack on Group B users is launched anyway. I do agree with you Woody wholeheartedly, but I think this is where those conflicts you speak of are born. It’s a shame this kind of stuff happens at all here, but when people get upset about it, I think it’s justified. Anyway, carry on. 🙂

            • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Sessh.
            5 users thanked author for this post.
          • #125049 Reply

            Elly
            AskWoody Lounger

            Thank you, Woody.

            I’m probably one of those very opininated non-techy people that irritate with questions and strong opinions. I’ve been able to follow the debates on issues here, and have learned a lot about my operating system and hardware. It is clear to me that Microsoft is able to produce an operating system that I would want, and buy, but is changing how they provide and market their products, and deliberately making what I would want unavailable in the future… Further, if I went with what CH100 is suggesting, and taking all the updates sent, my computer would be changed in ways I don’t want it to. Having a perfectly good laptop that is useful and helps me be creative and productive, I don’t want it messed with. I am very appreciative of the combined knowledge and sharing here that keeps my Win 7 Home, Group B, functioning and safe, with a minimum of stress.

            Having an older system, I definitely appreciate those going to the trouble to find out about those BSOD, before I install the security update. This is exactly why I never install updates until given the all clear by you!

            Thanks to all of you trying to track this issue down… Elly

            Elly-

            Win 7 Home, Group B

            5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #125024 Reply

      DGPi
      AskWoody Lounger

      A real wet behind the ears newbie, so please forgive me if I am posting on a wrong forum.

      ViperJohn reported that XP has 10 updates this month but when I checked on the Microsoft Catalogue it reports the 10 updates are for XP embedded.
      What is XP embedded, does that apply to the normal XP Professional Operating System?

      Edit to remove HTML
      Please convert to text (.txt) before cut/paste

      • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  PKCano.
      • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  PKCano.
      • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  PKCano.
    • #125220 Reply

      anonymous
      • #125223 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        Blue screen info
        Screen-Shot-2017-07-17-at-12.03.29-PM

        Attachments:
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        • #125271 Reply

          anonymous

          Tous les pilotes sont à jour.

          merci

          Cordialement

          • #125365 Reply

            Jan K.
            AskWoody Lounger

            Mexican? 😛

            But how can it be “Security only”, if they include drivers in the update as well?

    • #125233 Reply

      satrow
      AskWoody MVP

      From Carrona (http://carrona.org/bsodindx.html#0x0000003B):
      “STOP 0x0000003B: SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION
      Usual causes: System service, Device driver, graphics driver, ?memory”

      Win32k.sys = graphics subsystem.

      Rollback or update the graphics drivers?

    • #125285 Reply

      Skunk1966
      AskWoody Lounger

      Yes, note that there was no mention either of a graphics driver rollback attempt or, as far as I could see, the BSOD details.

      Before testing other driver version I uninstalled the installed driver before installing another version. I did that each time.

      BSOD details (logfile) was sent by me to PKCano by PM days ago

    • #125356 Reply

      anonymous

      I have been getting BSODs since end June after installing the Jun updates.  They have all happened while surfing using the Chrome browser.  I have not installed the July updates.  The Stop Code is 0x00000109.  I have updated all my drivers but one for an unidentified device which I believe is the scanner my HP Deskjet 3050 printer uses.  The drivers for the printer are buried in software that require that you: 1. uninstall the software, 2. turn off the “terminate and stay resident” programs” 3. Clear temp files and folders. 4 Disable the firewall.  5. Download the software containing the drivers and install before turning everything you disabled back on.  What a pain.  I will try again tonight.

      My PC is about 7 years old.  The computer had worked flawlessly since a March 2016 OS reinstall up till installing the June updates.  I wonder if the BSOD problems people are experiencing really started with the June updates? If fixing this last driver issue doesn’t cure the issue I will try uninstalling the June updates one by one till I find the culprit.

      I am using Windows 7 Home Premium
      Version 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 Build 7601

      System Manufacturer Hewlett-Packard HPE-541f
      System Type x64-based PC
      Processor AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1045T Processor, 2700 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 6 Logical Processor(s)
      BIOS Version/Date American Megatrends Inc. 6.09, 07/09/2010
      SMBIOS Version 2.6
      Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 4.00 GB
      Total Physical Memory 3.99 GB
      Available Physical Memory 1.60 GB
      Total Virtual Memory 7.98 GB
      Available Virtual Memory 5.37 GB
      Page File Space 3.99 GB
      Page File C:\pagefile.sys

      I am a newbie to the site — I found it last summer when I was trying to rid mys self of the Win 10 upgrade messages and have really found it useful.  Keep up the good work Woody!

      John

    • #125364 Reply

      Bill C.
      AskWoody Lounger

      Check this: http://carrona.org/bsodindx.html#0x00000109. It has a lot of info, including this link: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/debugger/bug-check-0x109—critical-structure-corruption.

      It also has some others.

      I do not suspect the printer drivers, but are the Deskjet 3050 drivers the latest version? Also, I know this sounds basic, but I have an HP LaserJet 3050 AIO. I once made the mistake of installing the Deskjet 3050 drivers that the HP site delivered to my search. (My fault, I did not notice the Laserjet / Deskjet difference due to focusing on the model number.) They just did not work, no BSOD, etc.

      Removing HP AIO drivers is difficult and tedious as they do not have an easy uninstall. After I removed them manually and found the latest versions of the LaserJet 3050 drivers, all my printing issues that were minor but irritating were resolved. The scanning issues were such that I just used the old XP machines for scans. After the new Win7-64 HP drivers everything was resolved. HP was late to the table with Win7-64 drivers back in the day so I used XP drivers for a while under Win7-64 Pro.

      My focus however would be on the AMD video drivers, especially if they are for an onboard or integrated graphics system versus a discrete video card. For me that meant updating the AMD Motherboard drivers also. Older AMD onboard graphics have been problematic for me with an HP desktop with both its original Vista and current Linux. When the AMD drivers took Vista down for the final time, I switched to Linux. It took many Linux distros to find a friendly install due to the integrated graphics. Additionally the AMD site was difficult to find the correct driver for Vista, and the version that failed was from HP.

      Hope this helps (at least the links :))

      • #125572 Reply

        anonymous

        Bill C wrote:
        “When the AMD drivers took Vista down for the final time, I switched to Linux. It took many Linux distros to find a friendly install due to the integrated graphics.”

        Don’t keep us in suspense, friend. Who was the lucky girl that finally won your heart’s affections?

      • #125636 Reply

        anonymous

        Bill C.  Thanks for your suggestions and links.  The Deskjet 3050 drivers were the latest versions — my problem was getting them to install.  I finally succeeded today with the aid of the HP Print and Scan Doctor.  However, I too doubt the print drivers are responsible for the BSODs.  BUT my AMD Video Drivers were updated after the first five or so BSODs along with about 13 other drivers.  AND I ran the PC hard today and so far so good.  So I am thinking one of the many driver updates had a positive effect.  Fingers and toes crossed.

        … Still I will not be installing the July Windows Updates any time soon till I know my June WU issue is fixed for fear of complicating things if the BSODs reappear.  Funny thing until two weeks ago I had never had a  BSOD on any machine I have owned.  I had only heard about these mythic beasts.

        As for Linux, I am not quite there yet.  I love Win 7 but am finding it harder and harder to keep ahead of the gremlins that seem to creep in with every update.  I suffered thru the Win 10 push, the Windows Update freezes, and the problem of printer commands failing after printing just one page — all problems I didn’t cause.  I don’t like Win 10 — I have it on a tablet I don’t much use, so no I won’t be going that route when support on Win 7 ends.

        Meanwhile I backup frequently, devote more space to system restore and make frequent Windows Repair Discs.  The latest addition to my arsenal is a reliable Driver Updater program.   These are all actions I never used to think about much until a couple of years ago. Were a dinner party conversation to turn to the merits of Group A vs. Group B I would not be at a loss for words LoL.  BUT why should I have to care about any of this? I am a criminal attorney.  I am not in the IT business. Something is wrong with this picture.

        In 1994 Microsoft started with the slogan “Where do you want to go today?” Well 23 years on the destination of choice for you is Linux, mine is the Ask Woody Forum pages. Not good right?  The current Microsoft approach to customer satisfaction and loyalty is so perplexing.  Their smug attitude (as evidenced with the WIn 10 push) reminds me of the approach of the Big 3 US automakers in the 70s and 80s as other companies began to steal away younger car buyers who were put off by exploding gas tanks, poor build quality and cars that rusted out in three years.  Yet for a decade or more the Big 3 continued to sell the same c*** — big chrome beasts with lots of plastic moldings and Corinthian leather — not what the customers wanted until the Big 3 nearly went broke and finally woke up.  When will Microsoft realize that their remarkably loyal (until now) customer base values reliability above all else and that the recent and bad WU experience is driving people off their platforms — AND that those who leave likely aren’t coming back.   They have to put more resources on getting the monthly updates right, otherwise I can envision the Microsoft slogans for 2024, being: “Have you driven a Microsoft lately?” or “This is not your Father’s Vista”.  Apologies for the rant.       

        “Anonymous John”

        EDIT html to text

        • #126666 Reply

          RedGalaxy500
          AskWoody Lounger

          To close the loop, the culprit for the above reported BSODs turned out to be one of the following two drivers installed directly from the optional Windows Update page at the beginning of July, as follows:

          1  Advanced Micro Devices – MEDIA – 3/21/2016 12:00:00 AM – 7.12.0.7723 Download size: 9.2 MB MEDIA  driver update released in  March 2016  AND/OR

          2. Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. Display software update released in April, 2012

          It was probably the first one that was the issue (I believe the 2nd one did not appear until after the BSODs started and I started to update drivers).

          After removing these two and then updating them using direct downloads from AMD Radeon the BSOD problem went away. Lesson:  It may appear simpler to update drivers from Windows Update page when you are rushed but you are inviting trouble.  On the upside all my drivers are now up to date including my my HP printer and Scan drivers which were a nightmare.  Wish me luck as I install July KB 4025341 — the one that has caused BSODs in older machines like mine. …  John.

          P.S. I used to think most driver updates were unnecessary and was lax about chasing down updates.  Some probably are but clearly not all, particularly as your install hardware ages.

          Edit ti remove HTML

    • #127666 Reply

      Skunk1966
      AskWoody Lounger

      For now I decided to leave this update alone until someone (or MS!) finds a fix for these BSOD’s caused by the update.

      I will keep an eye out for solutions

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

    Reply To: July 11 security-only patch KB4025337 causes BSOD

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