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  • In praise of Windows Update Minitool

    Posted on January 1st, 2017 at 08:19 woody Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    When the Lounge “appendage” finally comes onstream (in a week or two), we’ll have a forum devoted to Windows utilities. I’ve been watching for comments about various utilities, and this just dropped into my inbox, from dwh:

    Hi Woody,

    Just want to say that Windows Update MiniTool is working well to give me control of Windows Update on Windows 10.  It got mention on AskWoody in the comments for:

    Still no answer to the source of Win7 slow scanning

    mostly by ch100.  I had my Windows 10 Pro system set up to get control of Automatic Updates per your venerable:

    http://www.infoworld.com/article/3053701/microsoft-windows/block-windows-10-forced-updates-without-breaking-your-machine-part-2.html

    and using WUShowHide to manually query about once a day, mostly just hiding new updates, to be later unhidden on your MS-DEFCON indication, then using the standard “Check for updates” button to download and install. (BTW, my Ethernet connection is not an issue in all this.)

    I’ve mostly just shifted to manually launching WUMT in that same context which is a much less arcane way than the former.

    My preference is to be notified that new updates are available, and act on them when I think it’s a good time.  See what’s there and likely hide them, but for some, I may want to go ahead.  Then or later, when I think it’s a good time (I’m using the computer but not intensely, there’s plenty of time
    time for downloading, and I’m in the mood), unhide what I have, and download.

    Potentially later, usually when getting closer to shutting down, install the downloaded updates.  If a restart is needed, my normal shutdown will do the prep and when I subsequently bring the system up (the next day), things will finish on the way up.

    Windows Update has never in my experience allowed download and update to be done separately, but it looks like WUMT should be able to even do that.

    When I tried “Download Only, no install,” followed by “Install Updates,” that seemed to redownload, and I’m not clear in my understanding it seems.

    I haven’t tried “Notification mode” yet, but I intend to get around to it.

    The only quirk so far was using it to install the Anniversary Update.  WUMT applied the update then offered a pop-up that restart was needed to which I said to go ahead with restart.  It just restarted back to 1511, but using Windows’ normal power controls at that point went forward fine.

    I don’t have Windows 10 Home with this, but it looks like WUMT should allow all the same controls, despite the lack of the Local Group Policy Editor.

    Anyway, if you haven’t played around with this, I think it’s worth looking at

    CAUTION: I looked at WUMT several month ago, and decided not to recommend it. The problem isn’t with the tool itself, which appears to work well, and has garnered praise from many corners. The problem is with its pedigree. The developer(s) isn’t/aren’t identified, except by their My Digital Life forum handles @stupid_user and @shewolf. There’s no web site for the product, and no way to contact the developer(s) directly. As best I can tell, apparently, the developers are in Russia, and their primary support contact, Mr. X, is in Mexico.

    As I mentioned back in August, I got in touch with @shewolf who was pleasant and knowledgeable, but I didn’t get any details about WUMT’s source – who built it, who maintains it, how to get in touch should things go wrong, other than posting to Mr. X on MDL.

    All of those were – and are – big red flags for me. I have no evidence of aberrant behavior, but I just don’t trust the product well enough to recommend, or use, it.

    If that helped, take a second to support AskWoody on Patreon

    Home Forums In praise of Windows Update Minitool

    This topic contains 73 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  ch100 1 month, 2 weeks ago.

    • Author
      Posts
    • #14263 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      When the Lounge “appendage” finally comes onstream (in a week or two), we’ll have a forum devoted to Windows utilities. I’ve been watching for comment
      [See the full post at: In praise of Windows Update Minitool]

    • #14264 Reply

      MikeFromMarkham

      Woody, Martin Brinkmann had a detailed write up of this utility a while ago in his blog… Here’s the link:

      https://www.ghacks.net/2015/10/10/windows-update-minitool-is-a-third-party-client-for-updating-windows/

    • #14265 Reply

      Richard Hurn

      Happy New Whatever Woody – so appreciate your ongoing iiinsights. NOW: WTF is going on with the incessant 20% CPU utilization by “interrupts Deferred Procudedure Calls ” in BOTH win7 & win10?

      Seen many many widespread questions since 2014 but never a compendium of thought. Lots to do with Nvidia / Intel drivers but no strong consensus. Wondering if you might host a thread dedicated to this?

    • #14266 Reply

      abbodi86

      WUMT is literally a masterpiece, not just for Windows 10, but for all versions specially XP and Vista

    • #14267 Reply

      ch100

      I will try to give more information to dwh, the original poster in relation to the purpose and use of this tool as I understand it.

      1. WU Minitool is a GUI for the already built-in functionality. It does this better than the Windows Update tools in the same way some people find useful Classic Shell for Windows 8/8.1 or 10.
      WU Minitool does not add functionality not available in Windows, but it “unhides” what Microsoft already designed and it does it very well and with a very intuitive interface.

      2. The best way to use this tool is to configure Windows Update to Never update. This is to avoid the interference between the built-in configuration and WUMT. There are further developments of WUMT by other parties to entirely replace Windows Update and launch WUMT instead, but this is more in the realm of hobby than something to be done by everyone.

      3. WUMT does not need installation, it is totally portable. It get updated often, but for most functionality, any version is “good enough”. For Windows 10 1607 in particular, it is recommended to use the latest version. For those who prefer to use the tool in other languages than en-us, there are translations available.

      4. My preference is to not change the setting which configures the download mode. This acts on the registry area where the Group Policy configuration is done. This is redundant if Windows Update is configured to Never check and WUMT is used manually as intended.
      Those without Group Policy Editor may find it useful to configure WUMT in Windows 10 Home Edition to Never check for lack of a better option.
      Everyone else can have a different preference. Avoid Managed by Administrator though as we proved here that it may have unintended effects and this is due to the design of the equivalent policy in Windows and not due to WUMT.

      5. As dwh noticed, there is little benefit is using download only functionality.
      The normal use is to Select Update service to Windows Update or Microsoft update and click on the Refresh/Scan button (first top left).
      After scan, it all becomes descriptive.

      *** Very useful for those still with slow scanning on Windows 7 (which is only their fault if they are regular readers here, this was resolved first in March 2016 – KB3138612 and next and better in June/July/September 2016 – KB3172605/KB3161608) ***

      Select the checkbox Include superseded and you will be amazed of the difference of scanning time! 🙂 But avoid to select updates to be installed with Include superseded. It is not harmful, but you may end with installing 500 updates instead of 100.

    • #14268 Reply

      CyGuy

      Would like to see some comments about use of the MiniTool with Win10 Pro and especially Home. Healthy New Year to you all!

    • #14269 Reply

      GE

      Hi, how about a link to the minitool.

    • #14270 Reply

      jmwoods

      Nice tool.

      Windows Update though runs as quickly inside Windows 7 Pro on my machine (around 25 seconds to search for updates).

      Include drivers is checked by default.

    • #14271 Reply

      ch100

      Woody, WU Minitool can assist you your Group B style followers by using the so-called Offline Mode, under which the wsusscn2.cab file is used.
      The Security Updates database from Microsoft can be downloaded from
      https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=74689
      This file is updated regularly by Microsoft and has to be downloaded fresh to be relevant when scanning against it.

    • #14272 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Care to put that in the form of a blog post? I’m pressed for time at the moment….

    • #14273 Reply

      ch100

      I was convinced that you like Komm’s KUC even more 🙂
      http://windows-update-checker.com/

    • #14274 Reply

      ch100
    • #14275 Reply

      ch100

      I think Include Drivers should work only for Windows 10 1607 by setting a specific new Group Policy. But read carefully the description of that Group Policy which appears not to do what most people believe it does.
      Read also this thread https://www.askwoody.com/2016/how-to-roll-back-a-bad-driver-update/#comment-113143 in particular the comments by abbodi86 and me.

    • #14276 Reply

      jmwoods
    • #14277 Reply

      Steve

      Keep up with changes via the Mr X WUMT blog

      https://wumt.blogspot.com.au/

    • #14278 Reply

      abbodi86

      Different utilities, same love 😀

      one of most useful features of WUMT is “Copy link to clipboard”
      it allows you to have download links without having to use ESEDatabaseView to get it from DataStore.edb
      and it shows if there are bundled updates within

    • #14279 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss
    • #14280 Reply

      abbodi86

      “Translated by Mr.X”

      the developer is clear 🙂
      press on the version date “20.12.2016” to go to his page

    • #14281 Reply

      EP

      Actually ch100, the KB3138612 update alone did little or nothing to resolve the WU slow scan problems in Win7. It first required a COMBINATION of KB3138612 AND the KB3139852 win32k.sys update Noel C. mentioned back in the spring of 2016. The PERMANENT fix was to install either KB3161608 or KB3172605, which updated the entire WU client for Win7 SP1 and no longer depends on the latest win32k.sys security fixes.

      It was ultimately using the outdated WU agent/client apps for Win7, which cannot handle scanning & searching for 300+ updates for Win7.

      And note that the WU slow scan problems also occur on Windows Vista SP2 which were worse than the problems encountered in Win7.

    • #14282 Reply

      ch100

      It is more complicated in fact.
      Just get a new installation of Windows 7 with SP1 and install only KB3138612.
      The first scan after, is in fact as fast as it should be.
      After installing a reasonable number of patches to avoid failed updates, let’s say about 25 in any combination, the next scan is slow again.
      Abbodi86 and me discussed this behaviour few times here and abbodi86 thinks it is something to do with certain unidentified patches causing a kind of corruption of the SoftwareDistribution cached database. I cannot pinpoint any of those patches, but I certainly identified Office 2013 patches behaving badly with incomplete references to the Microsoft back-end servers, fortunately superseded now. I posted the list of those patches in one of the previous months here on this site.
      KB3139852 has different effect which is to supersede a lot of patches and this is true for all recent w32k.sys patches, it is not a true speed-up patch but acts like one in a given context.
      The only true solutions are as you mentioned, one of KB3161608 or KB3172605.

    • #14283 Reply

      ch100

      On Vista, try WUMT with the option Include superseded selected, ideally on an upatched computer.
      Tell me what you noticed 🙂

    • #14284 Reply

      Dave

      I installed and set up WUMT on Sunday. 1st scan took 45 minutes. it showed nothing new available. I figured that would happen
      because I had run WU about 3 hours earlier. I’m concerned about the LONG run time. Yesterday I ran it again. this time there was a 30 minute run time. Still nothing new.

      I was getting faster run times from WU without the mini tool.

      IMHO, at this time I don’t feel it is a good fit for my Win 7 machine. However, I will not give up YET. Will run again tomorrow and see what happens.

      Dave

    • #14285 Reply

      jmwoods

      Try adding the WUMT .exe file to the whitelist in your AV/AM program.

    • #14286 Reply

      Dave

      Well, WU took only 3 minutes to run this morning. WUMT took 17 minutes for the same results. Even though WUMT has more features, I will probably remove it later today.

      Will be a busy day with Dr. appointments and errands to run.

      Also, another problem has reared it’s ugly head. SEVERAL of the icons on my desktop have been automatically changed to generic icons. I have no idea what has caused this. Something else for me to do later.

      Dave

    • #14287 Reply

      Volume Z

      KB3139852 has been superseded. As of release of KB3145739, KB3139852 has stopped having any positive effect on Windows Update, because it has stopped having a negative one.

      It’s a wrong perception of this issue to search for triggers and fixes (win32K.sys updates) in different places.

      Installation of a trigger of this issue, aka a magic patch, isn’t only installation. It’s also removal from the list of updates to be offered, which calms down the Windows Update Agent.

      When the issue has been fixed for the moment, it doesn’t get relaunched by release of any new update or a number of them. It gets relaunched by the release of at least one new trigger. The trigger KB3139852 got replaced by the trigger KB3145739 on April 12 2016 5 PM UCT.

      The general issue does not get triggered by corruption of the SoftwareDistribution folder. If Windows Update is working fine the day before Patch Day and is broken the minute Patch Day takes effect – what’s supposed to have corrupted SoftwarDistribution all of a sudden?

      Regards, VZ

    • #14288 Reply

      jmwoods

      Donwload and run Shawn Brink’s batch file “Rebuild_Icon_Cache.bat” on SevenForums…

      http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/49819-icon-cache-rebuild.html

    • #14289 Reply

      ch100

      You have a problem with Windows. The scan should not take longer than 5 minutes and even then, it is too long if you are fully patched as you claim. I believe you have corrupted Software Distribution database due to hiding previous updates.
      I think it is worth resetting your WU database to fix the ongoing scanning problems.

    • #14290 Reply

      ch100

      If this is required, I think that AV/AM is a bigger problem 🙂

    • #14291 Reply

      Steve

      This may or may not be useful to you but I’ve been using WUMT for many months on a Win10 32bit. I’ve never had a problem with icons changing. Nor have I had issues with icons on my Win7 64 bit machine on which I only just started testing WUMT. Perhaps you need to look elsewhere for a reason your icons changed? The following link may help
      https://www.startpage.com/do/dsearch?query=rebuild+icon+cache+in+windows&cat=web&pl=opensearch&language=english

      Using the low-spec Win10 device, I don’t mind the time penalty as a trade-off for the better control WUMT gives over Windows update. I’m not trying to say the same is right for you. With Microsoft not offering choices, we are each left facing decisions and chasing methods that better suit our needs. For me, the inconvenience involved initially researching and finding WUMT, using it and updating it outweigh the lack of control over Win10 update.

      I suspect WUMT will be short lived on my Win7 device. However, I can say checking the box to ‘Included superseded’ as suggested previously definitely improved WUMT’s check time.

    • #14292 Reply

      jmwoods

      Some Internet Security Suites can cause issues with slow WAN traffic…Avast used to be famous for this.

      I don’t know about “required”, but it’s an easy try.

      The only way to know for sure is to use a packet analyzer like Wireshark to see what’s happening when WUMT runs, which is a little more complex.

      The tool ran about as fast as the native Windows Update GUI on my system.

    • #14293 Reply

      jmwoods

      Just curious…how does DataStore.edb in Software Distribution get corrupted by hiding updates?

      Never heard that in many+years working on Windows
      systems.

      It can become fragemented over time, which is not corruption.

      Easy fix for defragmenting DataStore.edb…

      Open an elevated (Run as Administrator) Command prompt, and execute these three commands, one at a time…

      net stop wuauserv
      esentutl /d %windir%softwaredistributiondatastoredatastore.edb
      net start wuauserv

    • #14294 Reply

      ch100

      It is a misunderstanding here.
      We know why the scanning is slow, which is exactly what you said, too much supersedence to be calculated.
      However, KB3161608 which was later superseded by KB3172605 introduced an updated Windows Update agent using probably a more efficient algorythm which allows scanning to be completed in a reasonable time which was not possible with the older versions of the agents.
      KB3138612 was just a good step in the right direction when it was released, but currently KB3172605 provides the most effective agent for this purpose.
      It was documented by Microsoft here
      https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3200747
      and discussed a million times before here on this site.

    • #14295 Reply

      Volume Z

      It’s still important to point out that the occurrence of the issue is triggered solely from the exterior (by an installation’s eligibility for what’s known as a magic patch) and cannot be prevented (or provoked) by the user unless an appropriate version of the Windows Update Client gets released, which has not happened yet for Windows Vista.

      Regards, VZ

    • #14296 Reply

      Dave

      Well, I ran WUMT this morning and it only took 3 minutes to finish. MUCH better. WU was run about half an hour later and it also only took about 3 minutes. I guess it must have been just a temperamental computer that took so long the other day.

      Also, I fixed the desktop icon problem by going back to an earlier restore point. Haven’t figured out what happened, but got it fixed.

      Dave

    • #14297 Reply

      ch100

      “Corrupted”may not be the appropriate word, but this is for lack of a better one and to facilitate understanding.
      I explained this concept too many times already.
      When you hide an update, it normally has a reference at Microsoft and can be unhidden if required.
      When that hidden update is expired at Microsoft, the reference disappears and you end with an orphaned record in the database without reference on Windows/Microsoft Update servers.
      That can cause timeouts while scanning, so it is not a corruption as such, only that the client-server relation is broken at that time.
      The reason many people think Microsoft somehow unhides their hidden updates is that sometimes there are new patches released under the same number while the old one is expired not long after, KB2952664 is well-known for this behaviour as it had about 20 releases/updates, but it is not unique. In normal conditions (not hiding updates), there would be 2 patches under the same number in Windows Update for a little while, until the old one gets expired.
      Hiding updates breaks the dynamic management of the available patches from Microsoft.

    • #14298 Reply

      jmwoods

      Corruption has a totally different meaning.

      For example, disk corruption is different than disk fragmentation.

      Bottom line, hiding updates does not cause corruption, nor is it a bad strategy, especially if a problematic update could be installed accidentally.

    • #14299 Reply

      ch100

      Excellent, thanks for the feedback.

    • #14300 Reply

      ch100
    • #84669 Reply

      dononline
      AskWoody Lounger

      Just want to add my experience using the Windows Update Minitool. January was the first full month I used WUMT throughout the entire update process. I’m running WIN 10 1607 Pro on a five-year-old Dell Inspiron laptop, a four-year-old Gateway desktop, and a new HP Pavalion 2-in-1. I got the Pro Product Keys through my Technet membership.

      At any rate, WaaS has done it’s break, brick and hose thing, or failed to install at all, especially on the older computers, every single month. I had to do complete bare metal re-installs on the two older computers when the 1607 Upgrade hit. (I’ll skip the details.) I met Woody via my RSS Feed from InfoWorld, and liked what he was writing, so I looked up AskWoody and added him to my RSS Feeds. I quickly became a daily caller — several times a day, in fact, just to keep up! 🙂

      So, when the conversation about WUMT came up, I decided to give it a try, and I love it. Here’s my update routine, and so far it has worked to perfection: I used GPEdit to stop Windows from checking for updates, period. About once a week, I run WUMT to check for updates from WUS. If it finds any, I either hide them or install them, depending. I routinely install most updates when they hit, excepting device drivers (I only install them from the manufacturer if I have a problem), some Windows “surprise” updates that are not strictly security updates, and the monthly Cumulative Updates. Those I hide until the last week of the month or the first week of the next month, depending. I try to get as close to the week before the next Cumulative Update hits as possible, after and only if Woody gives the go-ahead, of course.

      Whenever I decide I want to bite the bullet and throw caution to the wind, I do the following (these are things I’ve personally found, through trial and error, that keep the updates from doing their break, brick and hose thing, and refusal to install, on my computers. You can, of course take it for what it’s worth, and, as always with Windows, your mileage may vary.)

      First: I do some serious housecleaning: I run CCleaner, followed by System Mechanic, followed by Windows Disk Cleanup, clicking the “Clean up system files” button, and then checking every single box available in order to clear out everything possible. I know MS would have a cardiac arrest, but I also let CCleaner and System Mechanic do their things on the registry, too. Horror of horrors! LOL

      Second: I fire up WUMT and check for updates. I unhide the hidden updates, one at a time, and install them from within WUMT. I never have to even even think about messing around with WUS within Windows. So far, smooth as silk.

      Third: I thank goodness that I no longer have to live in fear of those dreaded … Break, Brick, Hose, Refuse To Install — PATCH TUESDAYS!

      I also thank Woody and the great group of helpful and knowledgeable folks here in the Lounge and at AskWoody.

      My goal now is to postpone the upcoming Creators Update until these old computers need replacing. I’ve got all three humming and I want to keep them humming with 1607 as long as possible. I’m a retired seasoned citizen and I neither need nor want anything Creators Update has to offer. I also don’t want to have to buy new computers every two or three years. We’ll see how it goes.

      Well, that’s about it. If anyone gets any ideas they can use from my update routine or change it in any way to suit their own needs, I would be most pleased. 🙂

      • This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by  dononline.
      • This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by  dononline.
    • #101749 Reply

      anonymous

      You can always decompile the application to see the inner-workings… I’ve not taken the time to do so, but I’m confident the Windows Update Minitool is safe.

    • #131486 Reply

      MrBrian
      AskWoody MVP

      I may have found a significant issue with Windows Update MiniTool v20.12.2016. When “Include superseded” is not ticked, the program doesn’t seem to properly take into consideration updates that are already hidden when listing available updates. Example: on a Windows 7 x64 virtual machine that was last updated in Sept. 2016, I used the program to hide the August 2017 Windows monthly rollup. Then I used the program to check for updates again. The July 2017 Windows monthly rollup should have been listed in the list of available updates, but it was not.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #131510 Reply

        ch100
        AskWoody MVP

        It is true, but the software uses documented Windows APIs which behave in that way.
        This may be the reason why Windows or Microsoft Update never scan with “include superseded”, although this functionality is built in the APIs.
        https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa387287(v=vs.85).aspx

        A real bug is in the way registry keys are changed when various options are switched between Automatic/Disabled/Check Only etc.
        To avoid this bug, the best option is to set the configuration outside of WUMT in Group Policy or in the WU GUI and keep it that way while using the software.
        Switching between Windows Update/Microsoft Update/WSUS (if available) is OK and even recommended.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #131513 Reply

          MrBrian
          AskWoody MVP

          After hiding update(s) in Windows 7 with Windows Update, Windows Update automatically rescans for updates, and doesn’t suffer from this issue if I recall correctly from past tests. Does anybody know if this issue with Windows Update Minitool been documented anywhere before?

          • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
          • #131515 Reply

            MrBrian
            AskWoody MVP

            Just tested with Windows 7 Windows Update. I hid August 2017 Windows monthly rollup. The next Windows Update scan correctly listed July 2017 Windows monthly rollup. I hid that. The next Windows Update scan correctly listed June 2017 Windows monthly rollup.

            • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
            • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
            • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
            • #131520 Reply

              ch100
              AskWoody MVP

              I may have misread your original post.
              I posted based on the assumption that Include superseded is ticked (enabled).
              With Include superseded unticked (disabled, default, identical with WU), the issue should not happen.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #131540 Reply

              MrBrian
              AskWoody MVP

              A familiar user name posted these at another forum: https://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/windows-update-minitool.64939/page-34#post-1308899 and https://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/windows-update-minitool.64939/page-35#post-1308923. 🙂

              • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
              • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
              • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
              • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #131551 Reply

              ch100
              AskWoody MVP

              It has been a while since then. 🙂

            • #131556 Reply

              ch100
              AskWoody MVP

              @mrbrian
              I believe you have already read this

              https://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/windows-update-minitool.64939/page-35#post-1308936

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #131559 Reply

              MrBrian
              AskWoody MVP

              @mrbrian
              I believe you have already read this

              Not yet, because I don’t have an account there yet.

              • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
            • #131561 Reply

              ch100
              AskWoody MVP

              That post confirms what I said earlier about limitations in the WU APIs and not a bug of WUMT for that matter.
              In fact I learnt that WUMT uses WU APIs from that post from abbodi.
              Technically that post does not confirm my post, quite the other way around 🙂

            • #131563 Reply

              MrBrian
              AskWoody MVP

              That post confirms what I said earlier about limitations in the WU APIs and not a bug of WUMT for that matter.

              I can’t see abbodi’s post, but I don’t understand the logic of saying that, since Windows Update itself also uses the Windows Update APIs.

            • #131572 Reply

              MrBrian
              AskWoody MVP

              A followup: Portable Update with Search Criteria of “IsInstalled=0 and IsHidden=0” seems to replicate the behavior of Windows Update with regards to this issue, thereby proving that the Windows Update API is capable of being used to avoid this issue.

              • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
            • #131592 Reply

              ch100
              AskWoody MVP

              Actually abbodi might say exactly what you say in the above mentioned post – see the remark about the property which may be set.
              I have no reason to doubt abbodi’s assessment of this issue, but there is always a possibility and I think he would agree with me 🙂

              I tested hiding an update using sample updateSearcher vbscript, and the following update in the chain is not offered afterwards
              so i believe WUA API takes the blame for this behavior

              or maybe there’s a property needs to be set in order to offer following updates
              https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa386515(v=vs.85).aspx

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #131621 Reply

              MrBrian
              AskWoody MVP

              I worked with the Windows Update API awhile a few months ago for code for this site. I’m not sure if there exists a Windows Update API search criteria string that would return the search result set that Windows Update Minitool does regarding this issue. Perhaps what Windows Update Minitool does is use a search criteria string that doesn’t include “IsHidden”, and then after the search result set is returned, manually deletes from the search result set those updates that are hidden.

      • #131522 Reply

        Volume Z
        AskWoody Lounger

        Doesn’t the program work somewhat reasonable by ignoring superseded when not including them? 😀

        • #131524 Reply

          MrBrian
          AskWoody MVP

          A reason one might hide a given update (temporarily) is that it might have issues not present in older superseded updates.

          • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
          • #131526 Reply

            ch100
            AskWoody MVP

            If this is buggy, then Windows Update should be used instead for this particular functionality.
            I tend to use WUMT only with Include superseded because this is what gives it a competitive advantage against any other tool that I know. I use this functionality for finding older and not expired updates, mostly for the purpose of analysis.
            The main reason to use it for almost anyone else is to control Windows 10 updates for those who do not have other more evolved tools available.

            • #131564 Reply

              MrBrian
              AskWoody MVP

              I tend to use WUMT only with Include superseded because this is what gives it a competitive advantage against any other tool that I know. I use this functionality for finding older and not expired updates, mostly for the purpose of analysis.

              You may wish to consider the Criteria editor of Portable Update.

              • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #131595 Reply

              ch100
              AskWoody MVP

              I was not aware of the software named Portable Update.
              Thank you for mentioning it.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #131638 Reply

              MrBrian
              AskWoody MVP

              @ch100: You’re welcome :).

              Unlike Windows Update Minitool, Portable Update doesn’t seem to give users the ability to specify the setting IncludePotentiallySupersededUpdates.

              • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
            • #131888 Reply

              ch100
              AskWoody MVP

              I find the Include superseded updates the most powerful and useful (to me) functionality implemented in WUMT, rarely available elsewhere. I am not aware of any other software implementing this functionality and if this is the case, the only alternative is to write own software using the documented Windows Update APIs. As we have noticed, while this functionality is very powerful, it has downsides, which may explain why it is not available in the official WU GUI.

              EDIT: I edit my original post while not changing its contents because it is not clear to me if the different behaviour for the default functionality is related to this implementation of Include superseded or it is as described in the original post just a bug.

              • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  ch100.
              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #131912 Reply

              MrBrian
              AskWoody MVP

              I find the Include superseded updates the most powerful and useful (to me) functionality implemented in WUMT, rarely available elsewhere.

              There are a few public scripts that have this functionality; do a Google search for “IncludePotentiallySupersededUpdates true” (with quotes).

              • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #131915 Reply

              ch100
              AskWoody MVP

              Thank you, but at this stage I am not interested in spending more time with this issue, as it was already packaged in an acceptable format in WUMT.
              If interested in researching further, you may find that the list of installed updates is not necessarily consistent with what Programs and Features show as installed. This is either a limitation or a useful feature of the same WU APIs, depending on how you see it. It can be noticed more easily on an installation of Windows 7 which has around 200 updates to be fully patched (without KB3125574 installed).

              1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #131536 Reply

            Volume Z
            AskWoody Lounger

            The program consistently ignores superseded when not including them, even hidden ones. When hiding IE11 and IE10,  IE10 will not be displayed under “hidden” when not including superseded.

            Like I said before, it makes sense to the program to exclude superseded when not including them.

            • #131562 Reply

              ch100
              AskWoody MVP

              @volume z
              We actually discuss here the supersedence as it is presented by the patches metadata, the only one taken in consideration by WU. In that sense, IE11 does not supersede IE10, although we know that it does in a practical sense.

            • #131616 Reply

              Volume Z
              AskWoody Lounger

              What does it matter? When not including superseded, a hidden superseded will disappear, be it IE10 or the Cumulative Security Update for IE. I understand what you’re discussing, IE11 supersedes IE10, and you have a tendency to treat me like a 3-year-old.

      • #131845 Reply

        MrBrian
        AskWoody MVP

        For those who found the discussion so far too technical, here is the bottom line: if you use Windows Update MiniTool with “Include superseded” unticked, then if you have hidden updates, Windows Update MiniTool might not list some available updates that would have been shown if you had used Windows Update.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #131887 Reply

          ch100
          AskWoody MVP

          It is a good thing that you raised this issue, as I had almost forgotten about it.
          Another way of summarising the conclusions:
          – To see all available WU updates with WUMT, always use: “Include superseded”. However this will offer updates technically not needed and this option is useful only for analysis or for those who already know what they are trying to install. Hidden updates show separately.
          – If you have previously hidden updates, never use the default functionality without Include superseded, before unhiding the hidden updates first. Otherwise, the results are not relevant, although no damage is done in any situation.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #131907 Reply

            MrBrian
            AskWoody MVP

            There is another possible use for Windows Update MiniTool with “Include superseded” ticked: a better Windows 10 alternative for hiding updates that avoids this potential issue with wushowhide. (@ch100: I know you’re not a fan of wushowhide.)

            • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
            • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
            • #131916 Reply

              ch100
              AskWoody MVP

              @ch100: I know you’re not a fan of wushowhide.

              I am not, wushowhide is a hack, while I prefer to use the real tools for the purpose 🙂

        • #131967 Reply

          MrBrian
          AskWoody MVP

          If the information in this post is correct, I’ll revise my prior statement:

          For Windows 7 users: If you use Windows Update MiniTool with “Include superseded” unticked, then if you have hidden updates, Windows Update MiniTool might not list some available updates that would have been shown if you had used Windows Update.

          For Windows 10 users: If you use Windows Update MiniTool with “Include superseded” unticked, then you see the same updates that would have been shown if you had used Windows Update. If you use Windows Update MiniTool with “Include superseded” ticked, then you have the ability to install available updates that are superseded by newer available updates, which apparently cannot be done with Windows Update.

          All of the above is subject to further revision :).

          • #131997 Reply

            MrBrian
            AskWoody MVP

            For Windows 10 users: If you use Windows Update MiniTool with “Include superseded” unticked, then you see the same updates that would have been shown if you had used Windows Update.

            The above is not necessarily true. Windows Update MiniTool can show updates of type Recommended or Optional, while Windows Update does not.

          • #132006 Reply

            ch100
            AskWoody MVP

            I was not aware of the information in your previous post to which you made reference. In essence, this means that Windows 10 update behaves now like WUMT.
            It is known that the code for Windows Update client has been re-written for Windows 10 and the client behaviour only keep an appearance of similarity with the legacy implementation and backwards compatibility with Group Policies known from previous implementations. In reality, it now uses new services and new scheduled tasks and the new code would likely explain the new behaviour, intended or not.
            What most people need to understand if they are to be efficient and move ahead is that old Windows is gone and if they try to customise too much and deviate from the recommendations which change often, they are on their own. Microsoft will rarely go back and fix issues which are of academic interest and affect few vocal users who contribute very little to their bottom line.

            1 user thanked author for this post.

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